Meta Knight Officially Banned!

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Well..... actually....this is pretty funny sir. I'm going to two offline tourneys this month. So yeah..I like using that argument too, but it kind of falls short here. And for my game knowledge....while it may be rusty I know the basics for pretty most of the characters in the game. And I know all the good and bad stages for my mains too. But since we're all friends here. I didn't find out for YEARS( Four to be exact) that IL had a scene for Smash. And I was kind of busy with DOA 4, SC4, SF4( horrible times), BB(epic times), and MK9. The only reason I found out IL had a scene because I decided to check the tournament section of this lovely forum. And BAM! There were two upcoming tourneys this month. Shocking isn't it? No one here in chitown talk about the game, so I had no idea about it. I hope you enjoy my story and wish me the best of luck at my two upcoming tourneys.

Feeling kinda Vindicated here, Flayl.

It doesn't fall short, unless I'm missing something and you're not really implying that these are your first smash tournaments. Look, do me a favor. Pick up MK and show us all just how easy it is. Because, surprise surprise, it isn't. If you aren't already good at the game, then MK will help you trounce, at best, a few noobs. At worst, you'll lose the "hello, this is new" advantage that chars like Sonic, Kirby, or Ness would give you, and instead be stuck with the matchup that the entire community spent 3 years studying intensely.

 

[rathy Aro]

Feeling kinda Vindicated here, Flayl.

It doesn't fall short, unless I'm missing something and you're not really implying that these are your first smash tournaments. Look, do me a favor. Pick up MK and show us all just how easy it is. Because, surprise surprise, it isn't. If you aren't already good at the game, then MK will help you trounce, at best, a few noobs. At worst, you'll lose the "hello, this is new" advantage that chars like Sonic, Kirby, or Ness would give you, and instead be stuck with the matchup that the entire community spent 3 years studying intensely.

Ok you can't just pick up mk and win (unless you're nairo), because MK isn't that kind of broken (without planking or infinite dimensional cape). He is by no means unbeatable. That doesn't mean he isn't too good.

 

[cutter]

I guess it's time for me to poke my head into this discussion once again.

Since people keep comparing Smash to fighting games, I'll share my two cents about it as well. First off, I believe Meta Knight is between the power level of ST Old Sagat (who is on the threshold of "too good" considering he is soft banned by Japan) and ST Akuma (who is obviously broken beyond belief). It's hard to make a direct comparison to another fighting game with Meta Knight because he is in a sort of limbo state where he really blurs the line between not quite broken and obviously broken. There are no other fighting games out there that have a character like this. Either they are "too good, but not broken" which is the case with 95% of S-tier characters, or they are broken like ST Akuma.

People also like to bring up MvC2 and even 3S when it comes to the magnitude of tier level disparities. There's a big difference with those games though and Brawl. Both of them have more than one character at the top. You have the god tier in MvC2, and Chun/Yun/Ken in 3S. No one character completely dominates the game like Meta Knight does in Brawl. That's why he's in S tier by himself.

As to where I feel about the ban? I'm still not completely sold on it, but I understand why it was done. EmblemLord made a post a while back that said something along the lines of, "This community already bans items, stages, and individual tactics themselves. Do you really think it's out of the question to ban a character?" And he's right.

 

[Eddie G]

It annoys me when OS talks like he's hot **** when the stuff he was winning had Bowser in second place.

So what? He wasn't trying to put his wins on a pedestal or anything...he was simply telling the truth. What I find even more annoying is when people talk like they're hot **** or constantly downplay other people around them when they themselves don't win anything. It is the essence of an aimless hater, honestly; and I see a lot of that going on from some of the more frequent posters on the tactical boards for whatever reason.

 

[DMG]

I see you allied

FB post: WHO STILL USES SMASHBOARDS WTF

Mah mans

 

[Nairo]

Ok you can't just pick up mk and win (unless you're nairo), because MK isn't that kind of broken (without planking or infinite dimensional cape). He is by no means unbeatable. That doesn't mean he isn't too good.

wat u tryna say that i never practiced with mk? lol ive been playing mk for three years lol

 

[Pachinkosam]

Im gonna say this but dont you think Snake would be more of a broken character then Meta Knight?

(Sorry to sound dumb i dont really follow the tier list so i dont no why they rank characters)

yeah snake got the highests change to get out of tournaments

 

[Zzuxon]

A good thing about this is that Ike and Ness usage and tier spot will go up.

 

[Ghostbone]

Well, no, because he's not.

But if Snake had five jumps, a glide, a sword, a multi-hit attack with high priority, and maybe if his Cypher had a Shuttle Loop effect.

F-tilt >.>
Snake too good.

Oh and he has infinite jumps...he just takes damage every time

 

[Life]

F-tilt >.>
Snake too good.

Oh and he has infinite jumps...he just takes damage every time

Not infinite unless you're under the stage and a master at teching. Otherwise, C4 kills you.

 

[Ghostbone]

Not infinite unless you're under the stage and a master at teching. Otherwise, C4 kills you.

-links to matches of top Snakes using C4 at like 200 and tech-jumping the ledge-

 

[KirbyandSonicrock14]

Feeling kinda Vindicated here, Flayl.

It doesn't fall short, unless I'm missing something and you're not really implying that these are your first smash tournaments. Look, do me a favor. Pick up MK and show us all just how easy it is. Because, surprise surprise, it isn't. If you aren't already good at the game, then MK will help you trounce, at best, a few noobs. At worst, you'll lose the "hello, this is new" advantage that chars like Sonic, Kirby, or Ness would give you, and instead be stuck with the matchup that the entire community spent 3 years studying intensely.

They study their butts off no doubt. And as much as I love to pick up MK to prove my point.....he is kind of banned at the tournament I'm going too. So that's going to hard sir. You got any other suggestions. You have been really helpful by the way. I'm shocked you didn't fall on the floor when I told you I didn't know IL had a scene for four years.

P.S.

To answer your other question. This is my first tourney for brawl. Not my first smash tournament to be exact. I went to a meele tournament at Gamecrazy when I was in the 7th grade. It was a doubles tourneys and me and this white guy got 4th. But I bet it doesn't mean anything. I'm just throwing it out there.

 

[Ghostbone]

To answer your other question. This is my first tourney for brawl. Not my first smash tournament to be exact. I went to a meele tournament at Gamecrazy when I was in the 7th grade. It was a doubles tourneys and me and this white guy got 4th. But I bet it doesn't mean anything. I'm just throwing it out there.

.....what were the rules for it, because if it wasn't like, 4 stock, 8 minutes, no items, then yes it means nothing.

 

[8Bitman]

Waluigi should replace MK.

 

[Reizilla]

That Waluigi is terrible.

 

[KirbyandSonicrock14]

.....what were the rules for it, because if it wasn't like, 4 stock, 8 minutes, no items, then yes it means nothing.

LOL it was that sir. What? You were expecting me to ***** shell or something. I never enjoyed the items anyways. Man you guys make it rough on the rookies for ya game. The Mk didn't do this to me. Same goes for BB, DOA 4, and SC4. I can understand why though.

 

[Circle_Breaker]

the game will be more fun (opinion) with MK banned. if enough people hold this opinion, tournament attendance will rise and the ban will be justified. i don't know how much more discussion could be had. if you don't like having MK banned, hold your own tournaments. Make new forums to promote them.

 

[KirbyandSonicrock14]

Circle_Breaker: Since you have a striped away character as your avatar. I agree with you 100% sir.

 

[Reizilla]

^URC logic.

 

[TrickLittleBird]

Twinkie needs to stfu and learn his place. >_>

Go back in front of your tv, sitting on your cream-stained couch, gaining dem calories.

Banning meta knight is one of the biggest mistake you fools can make...

And I mean seriously, only 15 people voted on this?
IT'S TOO SMALL OF A NUMBER! Your ban is invalid and thus, meta knight is still fair game >_>

 

[-LzR-]

I would have wanted to see a good troll for a change

 

[Dre89]

Twinkie needs to stfu and learn his place. >_>

Go back in front of your tv, sitting on your cream-stained couch, gaining dem calories.

Banning meta knight is one of the biggest mistake you fools can make...

And I mean seriously, only 15 people voted on this?
IT'S TOO SMALL OF A NUMBER! Your ban is invalid and thus, meta knight is still fair game >_>

70% of the community wanted him banned, that's what lead to the vote in the first place.

It's kind of funny how people are complaining about this, as if the community actually owes them something. If people have an issue with MK banned they can make their own tournies or their own community. Yes they won't get stickied here but so what, having access to such a large community was a privellage to begin with, not a right you're entitled to.

 

[Ghostbone]

LOL it was that sir. What? You were expecting me to ***** shell or something. I never enjoyed the items anyways. Man you guys make it rough on the rookies for ya game. The Mk didn't do this to me. Same goes for BB, DOA 4, and SC4. I can understand why though.

I'm not understanding what you're implieing in this post at all.

I wasn't expecting you to do anything, just by the sounds of the tourney didn't seem that legit, so I asked, plus in your previous post you seemed to imply that it probably wasn't a smashboards run tournament.

 

[Judo777]

Twinkie needs to stfu and learn his place. >_>

Go back in front of your tv, sitting on your cream-stained couch, gaining dem calories.

Banning meta knight is one of the biggest mistake you fools can make...

And I mean seriously, only 15 people voted on this?
IT'S TOO SMALL OF A NUMBER! Your ban is invalid and thus, meta knight is still fair game >_>

Lol at new account made to get infracted. MK was never EVER fair game, it was always ALMOST fair game 2....... but games 1 and 3 were never fair lol

 

[Divinokage]

70% of the community wanted him banned, that's what lead to the vote in the first place.

It's kind of funny how people are complaining about this, as if the community actually owes them something. If people have an issue with MK banned they can make their own tournies or their own community. Yes they won't get stickied here but so what, having access to such a large community was a privellage to begin with, not a right you're entitled to.

Are you serious? Being a divided community is the last thing a community wants. You want to bring people together, not separate them. You realize the consequences of this, right? Only time will tell, i guess.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Are you serious? Being a divided community is the last thing a community wants. You want to bring people together, not separate them. You realize the consequences of this, right? Only time will tell, i guess.

Hey cool, so the 30% of you at most that didn't want him banned can run your own tourneys and the rest of us will enjoy the game without MK. Oh wait, it isn't going to happen that way, they'll just keep coming to Unity events and forget about it in a few months. Or not. Whatever.

 

[Yuna]

the game will be more fun (opinion) with MK banned. if enough people hold this opinion, tournament attendance will rise and the ban will be justified. i don't know how much more discussion could be had. if you don't like having MK banned, hold your own tournaments. Make new forums to promote them.

Banning something because the game is "More fun" without it and because "The majority want it so" is stupid. The majority once condoned slavery. It doesn't mean that slavery has ever been right.

"More fun" is a stupid criteria to base how one writes a Competitive ruleset on. What's next? Chaingrabs and infinites are "boring" and the game is more "fun" without them, so let's ban them? The game is more "fun" without tripping, so let's hack it out? The game is more "fun" with more stages allowed, so let's just hack the banned stages to remove the elements which cause them to be banned? Heck, Snake is boring as Hell to play against. Let's ban him too!

The majority isn't always right and "fun" should never, ever be a criteria around which one shapes a Competitive ruleset.

"There are too many Meta-Knights" and "Too many Meta-Knights win tournament" is such a stupid argument. Ban him if he's broken, if he actually prevents other characters from even coming close to doing well simply by his nature, not because people choose to main him at the expense of worse characters. A quick look at most Competitive tournament communities will reveal a centralization of characters among most games because most games have a Top or S-tier around which tier*****s can flock.

I have always and will always view this ban as wrong (unless Meta-Knight is proven to simply be broken).

 

[link2702]

Banning something because the game is "More fun" without it and because "The majority want it so" is stupid. The majority once condoned slavery. It doesn't mean that slavery has ever been right.

"More fun" is a stupid criteria to base how one writes a Competitive ruleset on. What's next? Chaingrabs and infinites are "boring" and the game is more "fun" without them, so let's ban them? The game is more "fun" without tripping, so let's hack it out? The game is more "fun" with more stages allowed, so let's just hack the banned stages to remove the elements which cause them to be banned? Heck, Snake is boring as Hell to play against. Let's ban him too!

The majority isn't always right and "fun" should never, ever be a criteria around which one shapes a Competitive ruleset.

"There are too many Meta-Knights" and "Too many Meta-Knights win tournament" is such a stupid argument. Ban him if he's broken, if he actually prevents other characters from even coming close to doing well simply by his nature, not because people choose to main him at the expense of worse characters. A quick look at most Competitive tournament communities will reveal a centralization of characters among most games because most games have a Top or S-tier around which tier*****s can flock.

I have always and will always view this ban as wrong (unless Meta-Knight is proven to simply be broken).

except that he already HAS been proven broken.

lets see...

1. he already does prevent A LOT of other characters from even coming close to winning in tournaments.

2. he breaks the entire counterpick system of smash, stagewise and character wise.

3. He he's had several special rules put in place strictly to nerf him in order to TRY to keep him less broken then he was(and he got around most of those rules anyway.)



Metaknight HAS already been proven to be broken, the fact that special rules are needed in order to just *try* to keep him in check is already pretty much a clear indicator of that.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Banning something because the game is "More fun" without it and because "The majority want it so" is stupid. The majority once condoned slavery. It doesn't mean that slavery has ever been right.

Man, this is a stupid thing to say. There's no right or wrong here because it's a video game and at any point we can all choose to walk away and quit and other than a sense of togetherness and a bit of fun, we lose nothing. We have no moral obligation to use certain elements or even play the game. Those elements have no feelings. There is no tangible benefit to using them. Hell, items have been banned since I can remember. There are constant discussions about stage bans and we don't see these kind of pseudo-fundamentalist diatribes from people who are pissed off that we banned Port Town, or whatever.

If you're against the MK ban, that's cool, but don't assume some kind of ridiculous moral baseline. People who take a party game too seriously created this community, this website, and now the community has made a decision. Most people wanted it and no one was hurt except arguably MK players, and you know what? They can quit. Or change characters. Or start their own scene. There are no lynchings and no one is holding a gun to their heads; we simply think the game is more fun without their character, and we're gonna play it that way. Bottom line.

 

[Divinokage]

Man, this is a stupid thing to say. There's no right or wrong here because it's a video game and at any point we can all choose to walk away and quit and other than a sense of togetherness and a bit of fun, we lose nothing. We have no moral obligation to use certain elements or even play the game. Those elements have no feelings. There is no tangible benefit to using them. Hell, items have been banned since I can remember. There are constant discussions about stage bans and we don't see these kind of pseudo-fundamentalist diatribes from people who are pissed off that we banned Port Town, or whatever.

If you're against the MK ban, that's cool, but don't assume some kind of ridiculous moral baseline. People who take a party game too seriously created this community, this website, and now the community has made a decision. Most people wanted it and no one was hurt except arguably MK players, and you know what? They can quit. Or change characters. Or start their own scene. There are no lynchings and no one is holding a gun to their heads; we simply think the game is more fun without their character, and we're gonna play it that way. Bottom line.

Ok but the already dying community will likely be split now and that's not very good. Or should i say that's a possibility which is also very bad... why have 2 communities playing Brawl now? There's just no point anymore.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

You have no way of knowing how "split" the scene will be. Personally, I think all of this nonsense about a bunch of people moving off and starting their own scene or quitting is a three year-old pot of paranoid bull****, but that's just me. I think the impassioned forum posts are much easier to make than a new community that will give them free money, so they'll pick up another character and keep playing. And as for melee players? Couldn't give a damn. You guys have been doing nothing but talking about how little you want to play Brawl since the day it came out, so of anyones' opinions on our split community, I care the least about yours.

Every time anyone has declared the death of the smash community, I liken it to a group of crazies standing outside the subway stop with signs predicting the end of the world. And just like in these cases, I'd guess the world will keep spinning.

 

[Yuna]

except that he already HAS been proven broken.

No he hasn't.

1. he already does prevent A LOT of other characters from even coming close to winning in tournaments.

The vast majority of those characters are horrible characters who won't have a much easier time coming close to winning tournaments even with Meta-Knight gone. It's pretty much just a case of them having one less horrible mach-up to contend with now. Yippie-kay-ay!

Name every single character Meta-Knight allegedly destroys and I will name at least 1 additional character besides Meta-Knight who also destroys them for each of those characters.

2. he breaks the entire counterpick system of smash, stagewise and character wise.

How is this broken? Just because he's good on pretty much every single legal stage doesn't mean he is broken.

3. He he's had several special rules put in place strictly to nerf him in order to TRY to keep him less broken then he was(and he got around most of those rules anyway.)

That's because Brawl is a horrible game with horrible mechanics. And the "special rules" that were put in place "especially" for Meta-Knight were just extensions of the "Excessive Stalling" rule.

Man, this is a stupid thing to say. There's no right or wrong here because it's a video game and at any point we can all choose to walk away and quit and other than a sense of togetherness and a bit of fun, we lose nothing. We have no moral obligation to use certain elements or even play the game. Those elements have no feelings. There is no tangible benefit to using them. Hell, items have been banned since I can remember. There are constant discussions about stage bans and we don't see these kind of pseudo-fundamentalist diatribes from people who are pissed off that we banned Port Town, or whatever.

My point is that the majority isn't always right. Banning something just because the majority wants is gone is not the way to go.

Items are banned because they are actually broken. So are the banned stages. Meta-Knight is banned mostly because he "centralizes the game" and because "the game is more fun" without him. Seriously, "He destroys some characters", "He cannot be counterpicked" and "He has many ways to excessively stall" are not legit reasons, even when put together, for a character ban.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Items are banned because they are actually broken. Meta-Knight is banned mostly because he "centralizes the game" and because "the game is more fun" without him.

I fail to understand why this is a problem, I guess. Do you have any reasoning that doesn't come down to some kind of long, philosophical rant dipped in delicious Sirlinism?

Not all items are broken. Some are, some aren't. We ban **** because we don't like it. We have the timer set to 8 minutes because we like 8 minutes. 7 minutes? Blasphemy. 9 minutes? 10 minutes? **** that ****, I have **** to do. I want my 8 minute matches. I want my fast-paced itemless, Rumble Fallsless, 8-minute foxonlynoitemsfinaldestination showdowns with my favorite furry Nintendo characters and you do, too.

Turns out a lot of people (enough people that if the 30% who don't want it quit, we'd still have a pretty big scene, but let's be real, if 10% quit you'd be surprised) want MK gone too. So, now he's gone. This game isn't good enough to put it on some kind of pedestal and have discussions about what the right and wrong decision is. Unless someone is being hurt or persecuted the only right decision is the one wanted by as close to a supermajority of people involved, as we can get. We serve no one but ourselves.

Start training your Diddy Kong and get over it.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Banning something because the game is "More fun" without it and because "The majority want it so" is stupid. The majority once condoned slavery. It doesn't mean that slavery has ever been right.

"More fun" is a stupid criteria to base how one writes a Competitive ruleset on. What's next? Chaingrabs and infinites are "boring" and the game is more "fun" without them, so let's ban them? The game is more "fun" without tripping, so let's hack it out? The game is more "fun" with more stages allowed, so let's just hack the banned stages to remove the elements which cause them to be banned? Heck, Snake is boring as Hell to play against. Let's ban him too!

The majority isn't always right and "fun" should never, ever be a criteria around which one shapes a Competitive ruleset.

"There are too many Meta-Knights" and "Too many Meta-Knights win tournament" is such a stupid argument. Ban him if he's broken, if he actually prevents other characters from even coming close to doing well simply by his nature, not because people choose to main him at the expense of worse characters. A quick look at most Competitive tournament communities will reveal a centralization of characters among most games because most games have a Top or S-tier around which tier*****s can flock.

I have always and will always view this ban as wrong (unless Meta-Knight is proven to simply be broken).

This is false.

Serlin even says that if a majority thinks the game is far better with it gone then it is acceptable to ban.

It's not because it was the make the game more fun, it was because he made more money/placed more than people were comfortable with. Overcentralization is a legit argument for a bad, I don't know why you would suggest it isn't. Yeah people will always flock to the best, still doesn't change the fact when people do this enough it makes the metagame stale faster and can kill a game faster than not banning it.

Rules were put in place just to nerf him, something that in itself is bad. Remove them and watch the fun unfold.

Yeah slavery sucks and so did other mob mentality issues with humans rights. This isn't either of them, this is an issue of a video game character in a competitive gaming community.

 

[vVv Rapture]

MK ban happened. You all had your chance to show your beliefs before the ban. But now he's banned. That's it.

#lifeistough #getoverit

 

[LKratos]

I'm really surprised that, after 291 pages of *****ing, people who are anti-ban still continue to *****, as if everyone doesn't know that their opinion is in the vast minority and that writing up elaborate page-long posts isn't going to change that he's banned. The URC has heard all of the counter-arguments to the ban plenty of times before, and they aren't that convincing.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

The vast majority of those characters are horrible characters who won't have a much easier time coming close to winning tournaments even with Meta-Knight gone. It's pretty much just a case of them having one less horrible mach-up to contend with now. Yippie-kay-ay!

Name every single character Meta-Knight allegedly destroys and I will name at least 1 additional character besides Meta-Knight who also destroys them for each of those characters.

Toon Link.

Anyway, it isn't just that. Meta Knight didn't just destroy characters, he destroyed them with ease. Quick question: Do you think it was Dedede that was keeping DK from placing well? A good DK can beat a pocket Dedede, and Dedede mains are pretty rare, so I doubt that was the reason...

No, the reason DK doesn't place well is because the most common character in the game completely ***** him on every stage with so little difficulty that even pocket MKs can do it.

How is this broken? Just because he's good on pretty much every single legal stage doesn't mean he is broken.

He breaks the counterpick system because it is impossible to gain an advantage over him. It is impossible to gain an advantage on your counter-pick (which is what they are designed for) if your opponent either mains or has a pocket MK, no exceptions.

That's because Brawl is a horrible game with horrible mechanics. And the "special rules" that were put in place "especially" for Meta-Knight were just extensions of the "Excessive Stalling" rule.

Hardly, stalling and camping are two very different things. The distinction is that stalling actually stalls out the game. A beatable (in theory) tactic like Meta Knight's planking is just an extremely strong defensive position, you can't assume that the MK is trying to stall the game out, he is trying to maintain an advantage. On the other hand, if MK was extending his dimensional cape indefinitely he is actively trying to stall the match until time runs out.

 

[KoSa!]

MK has ruined the game for years and I'm afraid that this ban is too late. MK plagued the game and didn't allow the metagame for some characters to evolve.. Some were and still are unplayable with MK. You need to accept the fact that this game isn't designed to be balanced and it requires the players to try balance it. But I'm afraid this game just can't be balanced just too much random **** that doesn't belong in a competitive game.

 

[Ripple]

ZSS and lucario become much better also. maybe not as much as TL though

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

ZSS doesn't really get better. MK isn't even in her top two worst match-ups.