Match-Up Chart (Outdated); please refer to the new chart.

[SleepyK]

Sir, find me a post I've made ever where I say "I know everything." And I will agree with your statement. How am I being the rude one? I think I'm being the rational one while you're just throwing around your "I'm the best ganon." Ego. I respect your skills as a player, don't get me wrong but you're full of yourself. Part of being a good player and major contribution to a community is having the ability to be respectful to others and being open to the fact that people may not have the knowledge you have in certain areas.

The most idolized and respected smashers in the scene are the nice ones. To put it simply. I've met you and I don't think you're such a bad guy....so wtf?

pof, you know that you have a generally abrasive posting style. we've talked about this and you've acknowledged it. you did make some rather abrasive posts here. if you want people to treat you civilly on the boards, you could make an attempt to alter how you present your opinions. if you don't want to, tough cookies i guess.


anyway, we've derailed this topic over nothing long enough. kage, as an authority, has posted his opinion. i suppose we need mexican or ripple (pleeezzz) to post some stuff about whether they agree or not.

also did we ever clarify if sheik can cg gnw or not? i was busy for a few days and there were too many pages to read through.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I'm think she can go at least 0-50 but I don't know exact percentages or whatever.

Even if she can't go very far on slight DIs and other crap I can't see GaW responding positively to her general combo game. You can treat him like Marth kind of with the U-tilt / Uair garbage on non DI away and simply regrab on DI away. Admittedly, you won't Uair --> Uair combo him for very long, but he also dies to her U-smash and Fair at nonsense percents so it doesn't really matter anyway.

 

[SleepyK]

ah, i see.

i guess we need some magus frame data to fully clarify the percents for us curious folk.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I don't see why it would really matter.

With or without CG she at least goes 0-40 on him. For such a brittle character that can be killed by the grab at like 60 in numerous hilarious ways, going 0-40 from a hit is simply too much. Her combos don't exactly dry up at 40 either.

edit: Or do you just want percents for clarity and completion purposes?

 

[SleepyK]

i want to fill my map so i get a free item.

plus it's like having a slow conversation with KK, minus the hugs and puppy faces

 

[MEXICAN]

Ganon definitely has a solid advantage over DK. DK's b air will exchange with ganons f air at best, and me personally, I don't like that trade. lol. If ganon di's right, dk can NOT do anything close to a 0-death. Cargo u throw u air works, but if you go for another u air and ganon has been di'ing up and times his jump right, he can jump out of it, granted you can do a full jump u air or n air or b air and hit him again, but thats the end of it. Ganon, as I said before, was built to edgeguard dk. I think ganon edgeguards dk better than any other character. DK can edgeguard ganon pretty well too, but not to the same degree. I probably wouldn't ever say that it is ganon>>DK, but ganon>DK for sure. Oh yeah, and don't forget DK's awesome shield. lol

 

[KirbyKaze]

having that shield when the opponent's entire moveset does 16%+ damage with kill potential probably sucks.

 

[KAOSTAR]

How much damage does a fresh Ganon jab actually do?

 

[rhan]

Enlighten me. Why is Samus v Falco even?

 

[Pink Reaper]

Hugo mostly

 

[otg]

Hugs > Falco.

but in reality.

Falco > Samus.

 

[rhan]

It's not just Hugs. Falco sucks *** against Samus.

 

[otg]

Lasers and bair are pretty good.

 

[Wo1f]

I think Marth should only have a +1 against Link.

 

[x After Dawn x]

falco vs samus is gay, the falco has to play perfect and the second he screws up, he starts losing badly. then again, that summarizes falco pretty well altogether

Ganon definitely has a solid advantage over DK. DK's b air will exchange with ganons f air at best, and me personally, I don't like that trade. lol. If ganon di's right, dk can NOT do anything close to a 0-death. Cargo u throw u air works, but if you go for another u air and ganon has been di'ing up and times his jump right, he can jump out of it, granted you can do a full jump u air or n air or b air and hit him again, but thats the end of it. Ganon, as I said before, was built to edgeguard dk. I think ganon edgeguards dk better than any other character. DK can edgeguard ganon pretty well too, but not to the same degree. I probably wouldn't ever say that it is ganon>>DK, but ganon>DK for sure. Oh yeah, and don't forget DK's awesome shield. lol

wait, DI up? as in SDI up or did you mean DI away?

 

[Cactuarz]

G&W can CG sheik from 0-40ish, sheik can do it to 70-80 and can either keep CG'ing unless I don't DI where she gets a tipper usmash

 

[KAOSTAR]

I think Marth should only have a +1 against Link.

On what grounds? Try posting reasons instead being somebodies alt. err just stating an opinion.

 

[Magus420]

Sheik's "chaingrab" on G&W
Sheik has port priority: 0-1% (jump out at 10% after throw)
G&W has port priority: 0-3% (jump out at 12% after throw)

Not really sure how you're getting CGed until 70-80 damage. DI the throw up&towards Sheik and they can't regrab without you being able to jump out.


G&W's chaingrab on Sheik
G&W has port priority: 0-35% (jump out at 44% after throw)
Sheik has port priority: 0-40% (jump out at 49% after throw)

You need to walk forward and turn or pivot grab towards the end when they don't DI.

 

[SleepyK]

thanks a ton, magus. plenair 2 qt

 

[Cactuarz]

I was going off what I've heard on sheik's chaingrabbing G&W, Nice to know though O.o surprised no one told me earlier about that though lol. Thanks magus

 

[Magus420]

np

True story.

(It looks like Ganon's hitboxes are definitely touching Kirby's hurtboxes, so I dunno why Kirby's still chillin'... any ideas, Magus?)

That front hitbox apparently can't hit characters and can only hit other hittable objects with hurtboxes like bombs/shyguys/GGs blocks.

 

[rhan]

Lasers and bair are pretty good.

Samus is one of the easiest characters to power shield lasers with. And once a laser is sent back to ANY Falco they will get all disoriented. That leaves a giant opening.

 

[SleepyK]

Samus is one of the easiest characters to power shield lasers with. And once a laser is sent back to ANY Falco they will get all disoriented. That leaves a giant opening.

the disoriented thing isn't true. a reflected laser doesn't mean much if the falco expects powershields, which they should.

 

[otg]

At best Falco vs. Samus is even, I still think Falco wins. As long as the Falco is willing to run away with lasers, be SMART about approaching (it should be assumed that any wreckless attacking of Samus's shield == UpB OOS) and ***** out bair/utilt/shine (in that order) when she gets in close, I don't see how she can do ****.

Ya she gets him off stage he dies, he attacks her shield wrecklessly he gets upB, but it's not like her on stage game is that great, so how the **** does she keep up with one of the gayest characters in the game?

 

[Faithkeeper]

I don't understand why sheik only has a slight advantage over falcon. My personal experience and reading have led me to conclude that sheik has at least a solid advantage over falcon. If this is not the case, please explain why so that I might better understand.

 

[BunBun]

I'm pretty sure it was a joke from the falcon boards no one corrected yet.

Should probably be >>

 

[P. O. F.]

Marth definitely is +2 over link. If you aren't familiar w the match up it might be even or +1 marth but at higher levels marth really destroys Link pretty bad. Marths weird character struggles come from ganon for the most part. I think marth is even with or beats everyone except sheik.

I still need to say why marth beats sheik. Someone asked me about what else marth can do defensively against jigs and I never respoded...

 

[KAOSTAR]

I try not to respode to anything. What MUS are undone? lol. Im lost now.

 

[Roneblaster]

yeah i dont check the frontpage that often, sheik is >> falcon, jokes over.

but it probably wont change until scar or hax come in here and says it, cause theyre the ones who pushed for sheik > falcon.

but its pretty obvious that sheik is >> falcon

 

[Archangel]

Sheik vs Falcon Match-Up

 

[Faithkeeper]

cause theyre the ones who pushed for sheik > falcon.

Really? What was their reasoning? I understand she can't approach vs a great falcon, but she doesn't need to, she can just needle camp until you approach at which point she ***** you. Unless I'm missing something...

 

[ChivalRuse]

I think marth is even with or beats everyone except sheik.

I've always thought Falcon has a slight advantage over Marth, but nobody seems to buy that for some reason.

 

[Ripple]

I guess I'll give my input again for roy even though most will disagree with some of it.

Marth>>>Roy

Falcon>Roy

Ganon>>> Roy

ICs >> Roy

Luigi > Roy

DK > Roy

PIkach > roy

Roy > G&W (If magus could check if bthrow or dthrow to reverse blazer is a combo it would be apprecicated. because if it is, then its >> if its a big enough window)

Roy>= Kirby. (if jiggs is >> then kirby is NOT >)

unsure on y.link

 

[Archangel]

good input but you could have saved alot of time by simply stating that Roy sucks.

 

[ChivalRuse]

YL > Roy. Roy's low jump height and godawful aerials make catching up with the nimble lad an ordeal, and even if you do land a hit, the reward isn't that juicy. YL also has a far superior recovery and can actually go offstage to edgeguard. The sole reason why it isn't completely one-sided is because Roy has good ground movement, which means YL can't lock him down completely with projectiles.

 

[Ripple]

good input but you could have saved alot of time by simply stating that Roy sucks.

true, but this way it seems like he sucks less

 

[DJ Nintendo]

Lambchops lives with me so we play against each other once in a million years when we're mad bored lol. When we do Falco vs. Samus, we go pretty even. Next time we play, I'll record matches of his Falco vs. all my mains (which are alot) and put them up on YouTube for you guys. I'll even get Jesus to join us so ya can see some epic Falco vs. Fox action. We're all trying to get footage for our combo videos too.

As for the Falco vs. Samus matchup, Falco has a slight advantage.

 

[ChivalRuse]

As for the Falco vs. Samus matchup, Falco has a slight advantage.

HugS seems to think it's in Samus' favor.

I've already made posts defending the more controversial match ups (Fox/Falco vs Samus) Which I feel are:
Samus > Falco
Samus = Fox

 

[DJ Nintendo]

Thats his opinion I guess and I'm not surprised he says that either. I ain't saying the dude is wrong and I'm right, but we're two totally different Samus pros with years of experience in the game. So its whatever.

 

[Archangel]

Lambchops lives with me so we play against each other once in a million years when we're mad bored lol. When we do Falco vs. Samus, we go pretty even. Next time we play, I'll record matches of his Falco vs. all my mains (which are alot) and put them up on YouTube for you guys. I'll even get Jesus to join us so ya can see some epic Falco vs. Fox action. We're all trying to get footage for our combo videos too.

As for the Falco vs. Samus matchup, Falco has a slight advantage.

I have currently like 86 video's of you and I've gone through most of them so if you have more footage you may want to pass it too me soon as possible

HugS seems to think it's in Samus' favor.

IMO. Falco vs Samus depends on the samus's abiltiy to power shield/edguard. My Bro main's samus from 06 to 09 and I've played him with Fox and Falco at least 9000 times. and I can say from experience that it's much closer than people give Samus credit for.

IMO
Samus vs Falco is even depending on stages(Once falco is off the stage its Samus>>>>>>Falco LOL)

Samus vs Fox also depends on stages but its even or slightly fox.