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Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

Lovage

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 15, 2007
Messages
6,746
Location
STANKONIA CA
me vs. s2j sucks he was stoned n played like ****

i shoulda beat scar but 2 sets was too much for me, couldn't keep that focused for some reason

also i let him go back to battlefield like 5 times LOL, didn't realize it was his best stage by far
 

unknown522

Some guy
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
Messages
8,047
Location
Toronto, Ontario
battlefield huh? I assume you banned Dreamland?

edit: just watched you vs S2J. I see what you mean about playing ****ty.

I hear that shroomed was baked too?
 

Turazrok

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 10, 2009
Messages
4,133
Location
LA
I lost to a marth recently, and the advice he gave me afterwards was to pressure him more. I tend to play a very campy fox, infinite bullets etc., so I'm not sure what method would be a safe or reliable method to pressure marth. What should I be baiting with/punishing with and looking out for? Any advice would be appreciated because my approach pretty much consists of empty hop to wave land backwards or run and wavedash back lol.

:phone:
 

unknown522

Some guy
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
Messages
8,047
Location
Toronto, Ontario
haha. Ok, just asking cuz of the post.

Anyways, about putting pressure: try to space a bit outside his longest range move with your dash dance, then attack if he whiffs something I guess. If you see him trying to out-wait you, then go in for the attack.
 

Turazrok

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 10, 2009
Messages
4,133
Location
LA
Lol I was just trying to put more specific info because people being vague is annoying. Tanks d00d.

:phone:
 

unknown522

Some guy
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
Messages
8,047
Location
Toronto, Ontario
ah, fair enough.

well, there's so many ways to apply pressure. Off the top of my head, you have:

- conditioning
- pressuring with moves
- predicting actions

With conditioning, you try force the opponent to play the way that you want them to or in a way so that you may be able to get a punish off of it. Of course some people won't fall for certain things and the better the player, the harder it will be to condition them. Usually picking up on and shutting down their plans is the easiest way to condition someone. Giving them the fear that they will be punished for doing certain things and making them play outside of their comfort zones.

Pressuring with moves is pretty self-explanatory. Attacking in a way that you won't be punished is important so that you can force actions from the opponent to create an opening. Or in turn they can just sit there and you can create your opening off of that.

Predicting actions. Of course you shouldn't be trying to predict every single thing that the opponents doing, but it should be in your best interest to anticipate what may happen in the next 1/2 of a second of so. Of course this comes with experience and you need to have good execution so that you don't mess up since there's no use in being able to anticipate what's going to happen, but then you can't do anything about it because of a mistake or something.
 

Wake

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 27, 2010
Messages
3,191
Location
Thank you Based Mimi.
OK, but not today. There's ice everywhere. I'll crash like the second I start driving hahahaha.

Everyone usually goes to Deepak's, but then we don't get to play each other as much. What about tomorrow (Thursday)?
 

DerfMidWest

Fresh ******
Joined
Mar 31, 2011
Messages
4,063
Location
Cleveland, OH
Slippi.gg
SOFA#941
mmm I've watched a bunch of M2k/ken videos and stuff but I don't think I learned anything about dash dancing or spacing or anything .-.
 

Fortress | Sveet

▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
16,256
Location
Northern IL
I laughed so hard game 3 WF when vanz was laying at the edge and did a getup attack. Kels does that **** all the time to me. He doesn't mess that up.
 

Shroomed

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
4,793
Location
Santa Cruz
battlefield huh? I assume you banned Dreamland?

edit: just watched you vs S2J. I see what you mean about playing ****ty.

I hear that shroomed was baked too?
Me, S2J and Pewpewu all ate some really potent edibles and then after they kicked in me and Pewpewu went to smoke and had a ****ton of fun. lol
 

FluxWolf

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 14, 2006
Messages
1,330
Location
Minneapolis
OK, but not today. There's ice everywhere. I'll crash like the second I start driving hahahaha.

Everyone usually goes to Deepak's, but then we don't get to play each other as much. What about tomorrow (Thursday)?
YA... orrr.. ill bring an exclusive setup to deepaks that we can use for a couple hours or something, then let everyone else use it LOL... orrr both? idc ha

DAYYYUUUMMMMM
 

kd-

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 6, 2011
Messages
1,235
Location
Body City, BO
Sort of a silly question: How do you get over being scared and not give up space? In a lot of matchups (Marth, Fox dittos, Falcon) and in general I'm really nervous or scared so I back off and give up stage space. When I finally approach I get punished by WD-back, dashdance or they throw out a move and hit me, and when I don't approach they approach and are usually successful. How do I passively fight for space? Dashdance?
 

Bones0

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
11,153
Location
Jarrettsville, MD
You should never be afraid to do anything, honestly. Any amount of hesitation almost always leads to failure. I would just recommend going with the best course of action at 100% and either have it work or fail. If something tells you to approach and they keep WDing back, don't begin hesitating when you want to approach. This will probably only make it WORSE. What you have to do is figure out how to make your approach work or close space so that they are forced to approach from a bad position (usually bad meaning on the ledge, on a platform, etc.).

Almost any situation that makes you afraid to do something usually just means you haven't been exposed to that situation enough. I would panic a lot more if I got grabbed by a Falcon than if I got grabbed by a Marth because I have 100x more Marth experience. Even if Marth has an obviously better punish game on spacies from grabs, I am PREPARED to handle those punishes. I would be unprepared vs. Falcon, and I have a lot more hesitation about DI the throw, how to tech, and how to DI/jump out of the follow-ups.

Since you are scared in the neutral game when they are DDing, it means you aren't sure how they will approach/what they will use to approach, and thus, aren't sure what to do about it. I see this a lot in newer players. They get kicked in the face trying to move. They start holding shield to avoid SHFFLs and begin getting grabbed. They begin spot dodging/rolling to avoid grabs and start getting caught by their opponent just DDing until they shield/spot dodge/roll. Then after 30 minutes of this they go "WTF I can't do anything!" lol Instead of trying to predict what someone will be doing 1-2 seconds in the future (which is impossible in Melee), you have to be proactive with your decisions. The two main choices you can do in neutral are:
1. Space yourself so that your opponent's approaches won't work, or
2. Approach in a way that protects you from their own spacing/defensive options.

DDing and WDing, being the two major forms of spacing/movement, are the core of both options. In order to approach successfully, you need use them to bait out reactions (WDing/DDing back is a reaction to closing space) and space attacks so that you don't get shield grabbed and are able to capitalize properly on successful hits. In order to protect yourself from approaches, you need to be able space yourself so that they think they can hit you, but they can't either because you spaced yourself out of their range, yourself within shield grab range, etc.

Obviously just viewing Melee within the scope of two options is dumb, but it's the general framework within which I view details, and it's more and more blended the better you get. If you watch for this when it's two bad players playing, it's always SUPER obvious who is approaching and who is defending. With good players, the line gets so blended that there are times where it seems that both players are approaching each other or defending against each other at the same time. Someone good should elaborate/clarify on how spacing works at the top level.
 

Hax

Smash Champion
Joined
May 8, 2007
Messages
2,552
Location
20XX
WOW

played fox the other day, this character is ****ing BROKEN

step it up fox community.. you aren't doing your character justice. everyone's (including me up until the other day) forgotten that fox is EASILY the best character in the game
 

Bing

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 8, 2010
Messages
4,885
Location
St.Catharines, Ontario, Canada
Hey, so this is somethings thats really bothering me, but like, how the hell do you play against Falco's?

I thought I had the MU down, went to the Toronto tournament last Saturday. Got *****.
I only beat 1 Falco... Was close in most of the others... but I dont like close... ****
 
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