Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[Bones0]

Kick him in his beak and spam uthrow. :D

 

[Kal]

Better yet, dthrow -> shine.

 

[Bing]

I wasnt scared actually, just kept getting caught in pillars... I can play pretty alright offensively, my defensive game isnt so good :S

 

[kd-]

Thanks for the advice Bones. I'm not sure how to adapt it into my game since it's a little situational, but it's something to think about. This:

They get kicked in the face trying to move. They start holding shield to avoid SHFFLs and begin getting grabbed. They begin spot dodging/rolling to avoid grabs and start getting caught by their opponent just DDing until they shield/spot dodge/roll.

definitely describes me a lot of the time; it seems like the other person is proactive against my moves and I'm not sure what I can do to be proactive to theirs.

how the hell do you play against Falco's?

I'm terrible at the Fox-Falco matchup (I REALLY don't know how to deal with lasers, yeah I'm bad, I know), but here's some of the things I've been told and/or do.

-Against lasers, powershield, wd out-of-shield, shine out-of-shield, take the hit and jump/shine out since they don't combo into anything (as I've been told).
-Platform camp until you can get a hit in.
-Full hop nair/dair approach over laser into shine, upsmash or Thunders combo
-Try to spot when/how they space bair approaches and punish them with shine or bair (out-of-shield if necessary)
-upsmash trades with Falco dair
-Shine out-of-shield shield pressure, or if you see a time where they don't fast fall or miss the shine shield grab
-I've been told to stay far away from Falco on reset. Bait lasers and jump over them to approach
-Firebird is free for shine spikes. You can also shine-turnaround-bair or uptilt for edgeguards

Someone can confirm/deny, there's my two cents.

 

[omgwtfToph]

those are all pretty good points

 

[chillindude829]

falling up air

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

falling up air

very chillin-like advice

 

[Cactuar]

Kaiser-advice: Use lots of uair and upsmash. Up moves are awesome. Lots of up.

KAI-ZERRRRRRRR

 

[Bones0]

*insert Javi's quadruple uair combo on Mango here*

 

[chillindude829]

cactuar come get ***** by me

 

[Cactuar]

Haha. We do need to play more often.

 

[mexicanmax227]

Hey everybody! i just recently got some experience for first time ever. here are the links. Tell me if any of this is still relevent? I play an older playstyle but took a game or too. BTW this is the first time ive played against people in al lonnng time. Im a marth main so if ya see something funny, or something that needs to be worked on. hit me up. Theres also a lot of fox games in there too so i will be posting this in the fox threads as well. Thanks smash community. Marth on the rise from mississippi.
http://www.twitch.tv/winnarly/b/310270234 First part of MSU get together. most of fox vids are in this one
http://www.twitch.tv/winnarly/b/310275888 falcon starts at 9min.

 

[Warhawk]

WOW

played fox the other day, this character is ****ing BROKEN

step it up fox community.. you aren't doing your character justice. everyone's (including me up until the other day) forgotten that fox is EASILY the best character in the game

Ehh, I don't think he's that much better than Falco.

 

[rokimomi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mFdwLS2TAM

@lovage, does uthrow uair not work vs pika or do you just go for other things when you know they can sdi easily out of it?

 

[Spyro]

Ehh, I don't think he's that much better than Falco.

Fox is just Hax's bane.

 

[Wizzrobe]

Hey everybody! i just recently got some experience for first time ever. here are the links. Tell me if any of this is still relevent? I play an older playstyle but took a game or too. BTW this is the first time ive played against people in al lonnng time. Im a marth main so if ya see something funny, or something that needs to be worked on. hit me up. Theres also a lot of fox games in there too so i will be posting this in the fox threads as well. Thanks smash community. Marth on the rise from mississippi.
http://www.twitch.tv/winnarly/b/310270234 First part of MSU get together. most of fox vids are in this one
http://www.twitch.tv/winnarly/b/310275888 falcon starts at 9min.

This is the Fox boards lol

 

[omgwtfToph]

fox's uthrow uair is very good and reliable vs. pikachu

 

[Bones0]

This is the Fox boards lol

"most of fox vids are in this one"

>_>

 

[DerfMidWest]

More of my scrub fox:
vs falcon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=207wclfhYBM
vs falco: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQN5jf4_Azc


please help me make it less of a scrub fox .-.
And did my dd game improve at all?
What exactly do I need to do in order to improve it?
I'm horrible at teaching myself things .-.

 

[PGH Carroll]

More of my scrub fox:
vs falcon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=207wclfhYBM
vs falco: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQN5jf4_Azc


please help me make it less of a scrub fox .-.
And did my dd game improve at all?
What exactly do I need to do in order to improve it?
I'm horrible at teaching myself things .-.

just work on your tech skill man.. its just hard to watch.

 

[Wenbobular]

I kinda like that dude's Falcon haha
He does some good things but he like ... can't really shuffle properly

You're just like like ... waveshining around and stuff (also you can't shuffle haha)
Work on running out of shuffles (and just doing the shuffle properly, make sure you L cancel and fastfall)

Or just work on like, getting grabs or something <_< maybe if you just didn't think about using shuffles that you can't do very well yet yet and just trying to DD grab / full hop Bair stuff you can see some openings in the dude's approaches (he can't shuffle either so there's bound to be holes everywhere)

Also watch your vids and try to figure out when you get hit
i.e. if you're coming from above and get uptilted ... well hopefully that one's pretty obvious
But if he's getting you a lot in neutral try to figure out why
Is he overshooting aerials? Maybe he put a hitbox out and you ran into it? You got pressured into rolling?
Then figure out how to beat it
Dashdance farther? Wavedash in place right outside his range (pretty good)? Wavedash out / buffer jump out instead of rolling? Maybe try some FH Bairs (very safe if not overused, he probably isn't fast enough to punish autocancel FH Bair anyways <_<)

 

[Bones0]

Honestly... just don't worry about learning how to play before you can perform ATs comfortably. You're only going to adopt a bunch of shortcuts to cover up the fact that you can't do what you need to be doing. Melee is just hard. lol

 

[FoxLisk]

i feel like im tripping watching that match. everything seems to stop and start so much and i can't make sense of what's going on... it's a weird feeling

bones is probably right, you have to be comfortable enough moving around properly in a vacuum that your mind is free to start thinking about what you want to be doing. right now you're not doing either and it's just... weird.

 

[DerfMidWest]

when do I miss L-cancels?
The only time I've noticed myself missing L-cancels is occasionally when I hit somebody with dair or bair (sometimes nair)
And how do I fastfall? because I always hit down hard once I reach the peak of the shorthop.
Is there a point at which you can't fastfall your aerials?

 

[Rob_Gambino]

Work on running out of shuffles (and just doing the shuffle properly, make sure you L cancel and fastfall)

Or just work on like, getting grabs or something.

These are the 2 things stood out the most to me during your match. This is what they're talking about I think by start/stop and what not, your tech actually seems ok to me. It looked like you a few chances at free grabs, and you went to shine or wavedash towards too slowly instead of just dashing over there and grabbing him.

When dash dancing, dash a little farther at times. Also, sometimes I don't know why you wavedash instead of just dashing. A few times you baited some d-airs from him, but you were slow on punishing them cuz you wavedashed backwards to turn around, and it wasn't frame perfect, where you could've just dashed back and grabbed him. Basically what dash dancing about is getting as close to the fire without getting burned, so you're able to punish if they miss.

Edit- about the fastfall thing. Just try aerials while fastfalling, and you can tell a difference. You'll get your shines out faster or dash out of your aerials sooner.

 

[Wizzrobe]

"most of fox vids are in this one"

>_>

I know but he should of posted that in the Marth boards or something.

 

[Bing]

I know one thing I do a lot thats really bad, I go for a lot of drillshines, especially when they're not needed/fit the situation. Im trying to be more technical and flashy then I actually am and Its translating into...****.

I would post some matches to be critqued... but all I got is Bing vs. Shroomed. Bing vs. Weon-X and me trolling for 1 match vs a doc on FD(**** FD)

I might post the set vs Weon-X.. cause its funny... :S

 

[FoxLisk]

when do I miss L-cancels?

1:48
1:51
1:55
2:30
etc etc. and even when you hit them you tend to wait so long before moving that you might as well have missed it.

 

[Bing]

lol... hey look atleast he went the first minute and forty-seven seconds without missing one!?

 

[Wenbobular]

@ AesirGod - whatever the reason may be your Fox has very slow / choppy movement so I just assumed it was some combination of not Lcanceling / fastfalling / running out of aerials

 

[Warhawk]

etc etc. and even when you hit them you tend to wait so long before moving that you might as well have missed it.

I agree here, the biggest things I noticed was your Fox seemed slow and didn't seem to react quickly to what your opponent did or follow up well after you got a hit.

 

[Bing]

I agree here, the biggest things I noticed was your Fox seemed slow and didn't seem to react quickly to what your opponent did or follow up well after you got a hit.

That comes from the Pichu in him

 

[DerfMidWest]

so what should I do to make my fox faster?

 

[xXx-NoobKing-xXx]

I have a serious question about the fox vs falco matchup. How can I approach falco without getting CC'd and shined and *****?

 

[rokimomi]

Drillshine or grab.

 

[Bing]

I drillshine all the time, I just get *****, I'd suggest nair shining...

And Aesir, Just practice your tech skill and l-Cancels. The better you get at these things, the faster you will get. You appear choppy and slow because of these mistakes.

 

[rokimomi]

Lol, I suggested drillshine specifically because i nairshine and get ***** for it.

 

[Bones0]

when do I miss L-cancels?
The only time I've noticed myself missing L-cancels is occasionally when I hit somebody with dair or bair (sometimes nair)
And how do I fastfall? because I always hit down hard once I reach the peak of the shorthop.
Is there a point at which you can't fastfall your aerials?

You can't FF during hitlag (i.e. right as you hit them OR their shield). That's how tilting shields makes people miss L-cancels. I tilt my shield up, you hit it with your nair sooner than you expect, you try (and fail) to FF during the hitlag, you L-cancel too early. Just work on FFing as soon as hitlag ends because there's obviously no point in taking longer to reach the ground once you've hit them (and Fox/Falco can't aerial after FFing SHs). Also try to L-cancel as late as possible for a FFed aerial, so even if you miss the FF you may get the L-cancel.

I have a serious question about the fox vs falco matchup. How can I approach falco without getting CC'd and shined and *****?

1. WAIT. Keep in mind you don't have to approach right away. DDWDing usually baits out CCCs. SHing and then DJing above their head can also do the trick.
2. GRAB. If they aren't falling for the DDWD from above, it means they are hit confirming your approach before attacking. They can't react fast enough to tell the difference between a DD and a dash grab, and it usually only takes one grab to get Falco out of CCing percent as well.
3. SHIELD. Either tomahawk into it or just run up into their face. It will work especially well when you are at a higher percent where they will be looking for CC dsmash or something similar to finish you off. They may shine, especially at lower percents and near the middle of the stage, but you will probably be able to grab them right after if you time it right anyway. Worst case scenario you can't get a grab or OoS attack and you just WD OoS and back off.
4. UAIR. Not sure what % it starts at, but I feel like falling uair would beat CCing faster than the rest of Fox's aerials.

 

[xXx-NoobKing-xXx]

Good **** bones. I like how you break it down like that.

 

[Bing]

Yeah I agree, I was hoping someone would answer that MU more specificly. I asked this about a week ago and got like.. nothing. chillin said FF uair(lol) and I was also told to u-throw uair.