Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[Silent Wolf]

I'm tired of seeing so many threads asking questions that have been answered over and over again, and are obvious to the average smasher. I figure this will stop at least some of those from popping up.

Post asking anything you want about Fox that you're not sure about or just don't know. I will answer your question within the day, and if anyone else wants to answer before I can, go for it, and false information given will be corrected.

Also it wouldn't hurt to check this thread, or others before asking but, it really won't matter much.

Ask away.​

 

[ChaosKnight]

wooo ask for advice and it will be given ! =o

 

[G@BE]

Why does fox have a gimp short hop and it seems as if it is easier to do falco's....

I dont play Fox or Falco...

 

[Hylian]

Gabe. It's because for Fox's shorthop..like samus, you need to let go of the button before the 3rd frame of you hitting it...so you can only be holding the button 3/60th's of a second to shorthop where Falco they give you much more time.

 

[Tundravalco]

Im sure theres already a thread about this but i cant find it in the search. i have trouble beating marth and i cant seem to keep him in combo's can you give me some help or link me to a thread please?

 

[Silent Wolf]

There are two threads on Marth on the first page of threads in this forum. If you do find the other help thread, show me a link, and I'll close it, because it's obviously not good.
That's a pretty vague question. Can you be more specific? I'd rather not write an essay on the comboing Marth. I wouldn't want to waste your time with information you already know.

 

[Tundravalco]

I found a couple threads today and they helped a bit but what i meant by not being able to keep marth it combo's was after i start a combo like drillshine ->wavedash -> grab im not too sure where to go from there he always seems to escape me. uthrow to uair works sometimes but if it doesnt i get combo'ed to death. and the marth in question has much better mindgames than i do also so that doesnt help either haha. i guess the question is still alittle vague but any advice would help.

also on a side note when are you going to make a combo video so we can watch something other than zelgadis ^^

 

[Silent Wolf]

I'll make one when I can, trust me.
As for what to do after the grab in that scenario, at low %s, definatey uair, and if possible, do another uair to follow it up, but if the second one can't connect or you're not confident that it will, just jump away and laser at him as best you can for extra damage. If he's at the point where you just think the second uair will just fail, then throw in a bair or something. If he's not very good at smash DIing out of the uair, then going for that is usually the best option, but if he is good at it, and you're used to which way he'd use to get out of it, you can trick him by bairing and he'll end up DIing into it, letting you go for another aerial. I saw Mew2King do that to Ken in an OC2 video because he knows Ken's just that good and would get out of the uair. If they're at like 130%+ then just bairing would be fine on neutral stages other than DL, because DIing up would result in dieing off the top. Sometimes Mew2King throws in a jab or two after the waveshine for extra %, but doing that too often can lead to predictablility and it is easily escapable if they're aware. If you're used to Fox enough to where you're at the point where you can waveshine fast and far enough to usmash after the waveshine, then doing that at the higher %s will give him less chance of escaping. All he can do if you do it right is smash DI down. I wouldn't say that's it for that scenario, but that's all one would need to know to be useful. =P

 

[Tundravalco]

thanks that helped alot even though im still getting owned im getting owned less haha.

 

[TwilightKing]

Thank you lord! THIS TOPIC IS THE ANSWER TO MY PRAYERS. I'm not a complete noob, but I'm not pro. I have problems with continuously shuffling, When EXACTLY do you press l to L-cancel and can anyone give me tips on defeating Link and Jigglypuff? Thanks in advance :D

 

[Fefnir Cerveau]

Waveshine link to death. Waveshine combos **** Link. Watch out for his beyblade. That's about all you need to know.

Press L before you hit the ground? Duh~

 

[Silent Wolf]

Thank you lord! THIS TOPIC IS THE ANSWER TO MY PRAYERS. I'm not a complete noob, but I'm not pro. I have problems with continuously shuffling, When EXACTLY do you press l to L-cancel and can anyone give me tips on defeating Link and Jigglypuff? Thanks in advance :D

Since that wasn't a very specific question, I'll just give you a basic idea.
vs Jigglypuff, just dash dance around until you find an opening for a grab, and up throw as fast as you can to lower their chances of DI, then up air. Follow up with another one if possible, or lasers if not. Any openings you can find for up smash, go for it, especially if it will kill. There's A LOT more to it, but just use that for now, and find out as you become more experienced.

Vs Link, definately practice up on your waveshining. If you cannot drill shine consistantly, don't go for a bunch in a row in a serious match, don't try anything you're not too sure you can do. I'd reccomend unding a wave/drillshine combo with up throw>up air, or just an up smash. Just dash dance around and find openings for grabs and up throw up air spam, and lser when you cannot connect another aerial, like vs most characters. Don't be afraid to be as "gay" as possible.

If you'd like more detail, don't be afraid to look at any of the Fox guides stickied here. If those don't suit you, PM me and I can help with anything further.

 

[KeepSpeedN]

jiggly is easy as heck. basically what sf said. as u get more technical, and smart,jiggly becomes a very limited character. what i do is don't let her breath stay on her, 1nce she gets near the edge run away and camp with lasers cause 90% of them sheild, or just grab em 2 u air if ur in the beginning damages. if u stay technical on them and grab them every time they shield u will always win. fox can easily out technicalize any character in the game except a few, or maybe just falco. but....................... thats for the future. for now, u need 2 just practice the basics like L canceling,wavdash,etc. and if they like to pound alot just upsmash out of ur shield.<-----also future

 

[Ame$]

ive got problems doing the drill shine infinite .
When i Shorthop my dair it seems as if it only hits them one or two times
and after the waveshine theres no more time for performing another drill shine because the stun is over .

some advices ?

 

[DaShizWiz]

The best combo that works on Marth at lower damages which ***** Him, Doctor Mario, Mario is jump at them with an Nair and then shine after it, wavedash out of your shine, do a nair shine and repeat. This ***** marth so bad.

I have a vid of me diong it vs a Doctor mario, Not sure if I did it a lot but here. Its in the first or second one, but in both I know theres a little comboing.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=aA1STBWtjnc
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Wq5KNJVpYWY

 

[FastFox]

Don't forget about those u-airs when you're playing Marth.

 

[takieddine]

0-death or near death combo on fox or falco.

Start off with thunder's combo:
1.drill/nair shffl>shine wd jab reset.(they should be easy to CG now that they are at about 10+ dmg)
2.Chaingrab till about 50%...
3.utilt (if their DI is away, and most of the time it is)> nair shffl (full hop works on occasions as well)> usmash (you can even charge it a bit)

I've done it many times, and it is just super effective.

I've only seen mew2king do it (minus the thunder's combo), so It should be appropriately called The M2K...

 

[Silent Wolf]

0-death or near death combo on fox or falco.

Start off with thunder's combo:
1.drill/nair shffl>shine wd jab reset.(they should be easy to CG now that they are at about 10+ dmg)
2.Chaingrab till about 50%...
3.utilt (if their DI is away, and most of the time it is)> nair shffl (full hop works on occasions as well)> usmash (you can even charge it a bit)

I've done it many times, and it is just super effective.

I've only seen mew2king do it (minus the thunder's combo), so It should be appropriately called The M2K...

That's similar to what me and Blair do. We do dair>shine>jab>falling uair>usmash>then you wait and grab them>CG till they have enough % to escape and don't DI it>utilt>nair>usmash
It only works on people that have bad DI though, but It still looks pretty impressive. It's on FD of course.

 

[nice1]

i'm having a problem wit fox. i can do tech skills very well but i have 2 problems. 1 is i can't seem to do a up smash when running. 2. i can't seem to up smash out of the shield. any tips?

 

[TwilightKing]

As I said I'm not a pro, But I have some Knowledge...This is where good wavedashing comes in handy- but for more options here are 2 things you can do: Find an opening, wavedash in and then Punish him with the up smash (wavedashing allows you to do moves that you can normallydo while standing) or run in (depending on who you're playing) and if you can see the starting frames of your opponents attack and estimate its range you can Crouch cancel and land right in front of them and do your up smash About the up smashing Out of a shield you have to ask some one else that, I don't know how to cut lag out of that!

 

[TheBlackrose]

i just have a quick question can all characters be waveshined considering they are not di'ing away?

 

[takieddine]

i'm having a problem wit fox. i can do tech skills very well but i have 2 problems. 1 is i can't seem to do a up smash when running. 2. i can't seem to up smash out of the shield. any tips?

You have too many options..

When you're running you can either jump with stick and usmash with c-stick, or you can crouch cancel and usmash with c-stick.

the first method will work with usmash out of shield and shine.

I'd suggest using standard up and a for usmash out of shield and shine, so it might be your controller's problem, compare it with other controllers and see if it is as sensitive to the up direction as others, if it isnt, i'd suggest getting a new one.

 

[Silent Wolf]

i just have a quick question can all characters be waveshined considering they are not di'ing away?

Falco, Fox, Roy, Mewtwo, Game and Watch, Jigglypuff, Kirby, Pikachu, and Pichu all fall when shined if they don't DI into you anyways. Everyone else can be, aside from Luigi and ICs. They can be, but you'd have to have a lot of momentum behind you, basically doing it from a dash. You won't even keep the momentum for long either. if Characters like Marth or Doc DI away, you can't waveshine them without doing it from a dash, but if they don't DI, or DI into you, you can. Characters like Link and Peach, can be waveshined easily.

Thanks for helping me with some of these people, less work for me.

 

[Fefnir Cerveau]

i just have a quick question can all characters be waveshined considering they are not di'ing away?

No, since some characters fall. Some go too far(like Luigi for obviousness).
I can sort of waveshine a space animal. Just dash and do it a little faster. I think they can tech though. Oh, and don't try this, since it's pretty much useless.

 

[nice1]

You have too many options..

When you're running you can either jump with stick and usmash with c-stick, or you can crouch cancel and usmash with c-stick.

the first method will work with usmash out of shield and shine.

I'd suggest using standard up and a for usmash out of shield and shine, so it might be your controller's problem, compare it with other controllers and see if it is as sensitive to the up direction as others, if it isnt, i'd suggest getting a new one.

thanx a lot this helped me alot. not only can i do that better but my shine combos have increased, such as doing a infinite on FD from left to right even better thanx a lot

 

[Excel_Zero]

Well to move things here I have a question:

okay on a Fox vs. Fox or Fox vs. Falco match, I do the usual start to the Thunder's Combo (which is waveshine>jab) but the opponent can predict this and DI right so they roll to the right when you jab them. So you have time to catch him with a JC grab before they get the chance to do anything, right?

 

[Silent Wolf]

If by roll away you mean, still get stunned and put on the ground, then just roll chase with a grab yes.
if you mean that they stand up, and only have the lag of getting hit by the jab as if they weren't on the ground, then I would also recommend grabbing as soon as possible. If they're onto it, and DI the jab right in this situation, they can most likely get away from the grab, but you could just laser retreat. IF, they DI it right in time.

 

[Excel_Zero]

Hmmm I see. Well no one has tried doing this so far to me so I'll just keep doing it. =] Thanks for the info.

 

[Tundravalco]

Well if were on the topic of thunder's combo can anyone link me to a video or a how to video on it. i know how to do it but i always screw it up at the jab.

 

[Silent Wolf]

Look at the sticky threads, there should be a topic on it, and near the center of the post is a link to an old video of me. There should be text near the link telling which time in the video it happens.

 

[Tundravalco]

nice i got it down in about an hour. after watching the video i realized i wasnt wavedashing out of my shine fast enough so i didnt catch up to the person. time so show up some falco's haha.

 

[Sharingan]

I need some help fighting ganon, any advice given would be helpful

 

[Excel_Zero]

Fighting Ganon.

Maybe I can help here.

In the Ganon matchup you should use spacing a lot, and punish Ganon the best you can for his laggy moves. Fox has lasers, while Ganon doesn't have any projectiles, so use that to your advantage. Fox can juggle and combo Ganon very well. Remember nair to upsmash is your friend in this matchup. And don't forget uthrow to uair combos. Also you can waveshine Ganon and juggle him with uairs, bairs, nairs, utilts etc.

On the edgeguarding, Fox can easily keep Ganon away from stage. Shinespikes destroy Ganon. If Ganon recovers above stage, then bair should be the best move to keep him away. If you see him trying to sweetspot the ledge, shinespike him as soon as you can. And don't forget to shoot the heck out of him when he is recovering.

Overall Fox has the advantage on this matchup. Remember, you have speed, and he doesn't. Use that speed to your advantage and punish him the best you can for his mistakes. Hope this helps. =]

 

[Hylian]

Watch out for Ganons Range and how well they space themselves..it can really throw you off and you might eat an unexpected fair..which you don't want. Be mobile in this match-up..when the ganon goes for you he is going to jump.. foxtrot away and then foxtrot back with a shuffled nair into a shine. Waveshine. Waveshine into grab upthrow upair or just upsmash. Nair is wonderful against ganon..you can nair combo him pretty easily. Also your edgeguarding ***** ganons recovery..Shine will decimate him but you don't always need to..sometimes it is safer to just bair. Keep the pressure on the ganon with DSHL or SHL if you cannot DSHL very well...it is good to frustrate them because it might mess up their spacing. If you get grabbed expect to be uaired so DI accordingly. Watch out for ganons dair it will lead into a fair. When you are coming back Ganons Uair will really get to you..if you can trace a wall and try to sweetspot the edge if not just try to guess where he will upair..Some ganons are also very good at dairing fox out of his illusion so be careful of that also.

Hope that helped.

 

[Excel_Zero]

I believe that SHL is safer than SHDL, because you have time to fastfall on the SHL and makes you faster and with more mobility, which means less lag. If the Ganon start to wait for you to make the approach to space, then SHL the crap out of him and make HIM do the approach. =]

 

[Hylian]

I disagree...SHDL doesn't take even a half a second longer to do then SHL...and is more useful against ganon because it is more likly that both lasers will hit him..I like to RDSHL while running away as a frustration tactic.

Also, be careful of Ganondorf jabbing after his arieals.

 

[Omni]

You're both wrong. Full hop lasers are the way to go against Ganon.

Against Ganon, just play smart and don't jump into the ****. It's easily assumed that because he's so slow that Fox can easily take advantage of him, but a good Ganon will have great defense and counter abilities.

On stage, abuse lasers. Use your speed with Fox's dash dance game and camp outside of his melee range. The only move that Ganon can throw out fast enough to really catch Fox off guard when in this range is his down+b however most Ganon's don't use it because they suck. Other then that, Fox can use his speed to make Ganon to feint plenty of times. If the Ganon is pursuing the Fox like he should be, use shfflc'ed aerials to get inside to deal some major damage, always go for the grab, and never challenge him from above. Ganon's love double-jumping happy Fox's.

Once he's off stage, he's in the worst position possible. Doesn't matter what you do as long as you make sure he doesn't make back onto the ledge. If you force him to land on the stage, you better be ready to kill him or immediately knock him back off to rinse and repeat. Find out ways to **** Ganon off-stage for yourself; it's not rocket science.

 

[Excel_Zero]

Well SHDL is better when you are far away, but in close range is not a good idea. Maybe for retreating is good too, but I prefer to go SHL.

You're both wrong. Full hop lasers are the way to go against Ganon.

Ummm why? If you mean for retreating then probably yes, but you can hit with more lasers using SHL or SHDL.

 

[Hylian]

You're both wrong. Full hop lasers are the way to go against Ganon.

Against Ganon, just play smart and don't jump into the ****. It's easily assumed that because he's so slow that Fox can easily take advantage of him, but a good Ganon will have great defense and counter abilities.

On stage, abuse lasers. Use your speed with Fox's dash dance game and camp outside of his melee range. The only move that Ganon can throw out fast enough to really catch Fox off guard when in this range is his down+b however most Ganon's don't use it because they suck. Other then that, Fox can use his speed to make Ganon to feint plenty of times. If the Ganon is pursuing the Fox like he should be, use shfflc'ed aerials to get inside to deal some major damage, always go for the grab, and never challenge him from above. Ganon's love double-jumping happy Fox's.

Once he's off stage, he's in the worst position possible. Doesn't matter what you do as long as you make sure he doesn't make back onto the ledge. If you force him to land on the stage, you better be ready to kill him or immediately knock him back off to rinse and repeat. Find out ways to **** Ganon off-stage for yourself; it's not rocket science.

I'm not wrong..DSHL works better against Ganon then Full Hop triple laser..Ganon's almost never use their double jump and they will for the most part be Short hopping in which case you should be DSHL not FHTL... If they are on a platform..of course you are not going to DSHL because no lasers will hit them...then you should FHTL but I didn't think I needed to mention that out of common sense. Down B? LOL. How slow of a reaction time do the people you play with have? That move is SO easy to see coming and hit has a wind-up lag that allows you to move fast enough to jump over it or just dash away in time...Down B is horrible on stage and isn't used by almost any good ganons and if it is its only once or twice a match. Even if they don't hit.

Like I said before..nairs are your best friend along with shine in this match..and yeah upthrow uair is good and you should never try to be above a ganon...his Uair is dangourous.

 

[Silent Wolf]

I didn't really go over all of those responses, but SHDL has it's uses v Ganon. I use a combination of it and SHL and full hop lasers on him, w/e works at the time.