Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[FoxLisk]

.......I come here for fox advice, and I see comments about multi-shining. URGH!

can that just be this threads title

 

[Druggedfox]

Why would a marth ever approach with nair, fair or uptilt...

serious question

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

^ agree. I wish dart would use that **** against me LOL

 

[Diakonos]

Why would a marth ever approach

serious question

Good question!

 

[unknown522]

Why would a marth ever approach with nair, fair or uptilt...

serious question

yes. I wonder that all the time too.

 

[ruhtraeel]

I use X to jump but when I double shine I claw the Y button using the side of my index finger lol

I'm so fail

 

[JPOBS]

marths aren't supposed to use nairs and fairs for approach?

<insert rant about the metagame stagnating because of arcane beliefs that there is only one (or a few) ways to play, and every other option and creativity sucks>

I actually don't know much about marths, I just hate it when discussions boil down to "you should only ever do X because theory suggests you get ***** if you ever try to do A, B, C."

 

[Crooked Crow]

Why wouldn't SH Nair work?

 

[PK Webb]

Pc Niko and a few other marths I no run up pivot u tilt. Sh fair and nair work still when spaced. Grrrrr so many cookie cutter styles and no creativity. Oh and they approach with d tilt too.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Ok for all you fox mains on the struggle heres a tip: if you stay literally millimeters outside marth's range (like you're risking getting tip fsmashed if you mess up) he has almost no options to attack you. This is because marth's dtilt and dash attack need a bit of range to start up and obviously you will be outside of all his standing ground moves. At this point marth will have the option to grab you, but if you do any attack that will fail. Of course this isn't fail safe yadayada but its a pretty good thing to practice which will put a lot of pressure on the marth player.

 

[Druggedfox]

Good question!

I was actually about to say that, then I remembered some people pick DL and run away >_>

It has very little to do with a "cookie cutter" style. There are things that get you ***** 9 times out of 10;if you have a read you can approach with anything.... That doesnt make those things good approaches.

If marth is approaching, hes committing... Until you have a hard read committing is the last thing you should do. If its "well spaced" then its probably not a committment, and thus probably not an approach.

Dtilt is better because of the iasa, and the fact that to punish it they probably have to go into the air: an awful place to be when fighting marth.

I mean, hey, sh counter is an amazing approach if you have a read; that doesn't mean i would ever make a general claim like "sh counter is a good approach".

 

[JPOBS]

sarcastically saying "why would anyone ever do X"
sends a totally different message than
"some approaches are better than others, and your base strategy should aim to limit risks unless you have a good read"

 

[Druggedfox]

While the tone *is* different, somehow I think diakonos, unknown, and sveet all knew exactly what I was saying.

But sure, I'll try to be more accurate next time.

Point is, you could replace "fair, nair, and uptilt" with literally any 3 of marth's moves and twebb's post would be the same. None of those are good approach moves at all (nair is alright vs bad/big/easily pressured characters, but we're talking about fighting fox), and are all reliant on a read.

Also, it wasn't sarcastic at all. Sarcastically saying "Why would anyone ever do X" implies that people should always do X. That's not what I'm saying.

 

[Palpi]

Why would marth ever leave the ground against fox?

 

[ShroudedOne]

Everything Marth does in that MU is just so that he can get a grab.

 

[Palpi]

And fox can grab marth off any missed aerial with the right DD spacing.

 

[JPOBS]

While the tone *is* different, somehow I think diakonos, unknown, and sveet all knew exactly what I was saying.

But sure, I'll try to be more accurate next time.

Point is, you could replace "fair, nair, and uptilt" with literally any 3 of marth's moves and twebb's post would be the same. None of those are good approach moves at all (nair is alright vs bad/big/easily pressured characters, but we're talking about fighting fox), and are all reliant on a read.

Also, it wasn't sarcastic at all. Sarcastically saying "Why would anyone ever do X" implies that people should always do X. That's not what I'm saying.

Indeed, I agree, but unknown, sveet, and diakonos aren't the kinds of players looking for advice, or ways to improve, at least not from a forum discussion thread.

I'm thinking about players that are less experienced and knowledgeable, reading this thread (or any) and getting absolute ideas about only ever doing X or never doing Y, and then having their growth as a player stunted.

I just think people in general should gravitate towards the other style of post, like where you explained why dtilt is preferrable because of iasa, or sveets post about toying with the spacign just outside his range where marth has trouble.
But I also get that you were also somewhat kidding and didn't mean to be taken as seriously or literally, but I'm just pointing out how some people might have interperreted it.

And you're right, sarcastic was the wrong term. couldn't think of anything else atm.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

if the player is stuck believing that there are absolutes in this game, 1 post by dfox is not gonna be the nail in the coffin

 

[Druggedfox]

Hmm... maybe if my name was dr. peeepee one post by me really would change things

 

[KirbyKaze]

Girls, girls, you're both pretty.

 

[Divinokage]

Hmm... maybe if my name was dr. peeepee one post by me really would change things

Maybe if your name was Soberfox, you would make more sense. =)

 

[sanchaz]

Ok for all you fox mains on the struggle heres a tip: if you stay literally millimeters outside marth's range (like you're risking getting tip fsmashed if you mess up) he has almost no options to attack you. This is because marth's dtilt and dash attack need a bit of range to start up and obviously you will be outside of all his standing ground moves. At this point marth will have the option to grab you, but if you do any attack that will fail. Of course this isn't fail safe yadayada but its a pretty good thing to practice which will put a lot of pressure on the marth player.

I know exactly the range that you talkin about sveet, the range where it scares or almost forces the marth player to do something, I'm going to use this tactic much more rather then to approach with nair, shine, nair, marth wave dashes out and hopes I mess up for max punish which could equal a stock,

I may of gotten serious around a year ago and hope to improve my play to beat kelly in a set, even if I have to pick janky stages like brinstar, lol.

who is drugged fox???

 

[Dr Peepee]

Hmm... maybe if my name was dr. peeepee one post by me really would change things

LOL

agreeing with KK on this one

PS, I, as Marth, get away with Nairs when Fox is cornered a lot because he tries to DD punish me more than anything.

hater

 

[Winston]

Isn't approaching nair rather susceptible to dd punishing? Or do you mean his focus on dd punishing gets him cornered which doesn't allow him to?

 

[Dr Peepee]

I mean he's cornered for whatever reason(hit him there, etc) but Nair covers DD'ing or most of it in that situation and tends to put more pressure on the Fox than it does to put Marth in a bad position.

Usually

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

yeah when fox is cornered i could see it being useful

 

[Druggedfox]

PP, you also get away with reverse uptilt on shield with falco because you're Dr. ****ing PP >______>

Yes, I'm a hater.

Also, fox is supposed to upsmash anything and everything that goes into the air near him if he's cornered, just saying. Idk, DD'ing while cornered isn't really a good idea unless they have bad spacing.

 

[Divinokage]

PP, you also get away with reverse uptilt on shield with falco because you're Dr. ****ing PP >______>

Yes, I'm a hater.

Also, fox is supposed to upsmash anything and everything that goes into the air near him if he's cornered, just saying. Idk, DD'ing while cornered isn't really a good idea unless they have bad spacing.

It's called being in a tournament setting not because he's Dr.PP. If someone had 100% accuracy with every situation possible all the time I would be ****ING surprised.

 

[crush]

marths aren't supposed to use nairs and fairs for approach?

<insert rant about the metagame stagnating because of arcane beliefs that there is only one (or a few) ways to play, and every other option and creativity sucks>

I actually don't know much about marths, I just hate it when discussions boil down to "you should only ever do X because theory suggests you get ***** if you ever try to do A, B, C."

yeah i hate when that happens to, thats the main reason i never really post anything serious in the character boards.

i remember against a fox once i had him sort of cornered on dream land and we were both dash dancing and he randomly side B-d towards the middle of the stage. i guess thats common with falco when they mess up a laser but i usually only see side-B to the middle of the stage after a ledgehop when they're panic ing

 

[Sinji]

I am very late on the discussion, but it's unsafe for Marth to approach airborne unless fox is on a platform. So Final Destination is out of the question lol. If Marth approaches airborne with either a nair, fair and fox shields it, it gives fox enough time to wavedash oos and grab>uthrow>uair or you can usmash oos or upsmash after the wavedash oos depending on the space that you have to punish him.

Yes . As DruggedFox pointed out. Dtilt is the best approach option out of the three that I pointed out in my last post. It can corner fox in certain situations and since (for the most part) fox holds his shield in a neutral position, it leaves an open area to poke him. Also if fox is cornered and and he is holding shield downwards and Marth pokes him, fox will touch the ledge. Use the invincibility ledge hop to your advantage. Waveland>grab is also a good option depending on the spacing.

I forgot to point out if you isolated Marths breathing room and try to punish him, he can upb oos, so be careful.

lol. This sounds like a Marth thread. But this will benefit foxes as well.

 

[FoxLisk]

I am very late on the discussion, but it's unsafe for Marth to approach airborne unless fox is on a platform. So Final Destination is out of the question lol. If Marth approaches airborne with either a nair, fair and fox shields it, it gives fox enough time to wavedash oos and grab>uthrow>uair or you can usmash oos or upsmash after the wavedash oos depending on the space that you have to punish him.

a tipped fair on your shield can by no means be WD grabbed unless marth times it badly (e.g. if he does a rising fair he's ****ed)

 

[sanchaz]

K, I like to know my options out of shield. I can wavedash out, upsmash, jump, grab, or roll, Is upsmash Oos recommended in most situations, it's becoming my favorite option lately against a lot of characters.

but what do I do against falco, help please.

 

[Sinji]

but what do I do against falco, help please.

You can usmash oos, buffer roll oos, spot dodge oos or shine oos.

 

[sanchaz]

You can usmash oos, buffer roll oos, spot dodge oos or shine oos.

hmmm, well yeah that to, I'm going to see what mango does with his fox at genesis 2

 

[PK Webb]

Its all situational. I do all of the above. I nair bair roll u smash shine and wavedash oos. If im feeling good ill waveshine oos but that's hard

 

[Max?]

sarcastically saying "why would anyone ever do X"
sends a totally different message than
"some approaches are better than others, and your base strategy should aim to limit risks unless you have a good read"

I agree, that mentality is the worst and I see it all the time. Despite this game having unlimited potential and movement options, apparently there is only one way to play and everyone after F/F/J/S is trash.

That's not why I came here tho.


Sup fellas, just had to come in here and mention that Jman is unbelievably dirty.

 

[Diakonos]

I like DruggedFox's posts.

I will say that I am not above learning stuff from the Fox Q&A, though. I have a question.

I regularly approach fox with aerials as marth (gasp). It often gets me punished. What I try to do is land in such a way that it's harder to dash attack/ DD garb me. I also try to land by ledgecanceling into a fair or a something to give me space.

The main reason I do this is because I can't think of a consistently good approach as Marth. Btw, I ban Dreamland every day. I wake up, turn on my console, turn off dreamland, and then eat breakfast. Anyway, the best I can think of is dtilt, but even though I know the IASA timing, I hardly consider it an approach... do you guys mean WD->dilt etc.? And, at low percentage, you can do a rising fair, and if you get hit, you can just take the hit like a man and fall with uair or something.

What are some other legit approaches? Specifically as regards gameplay in the pro-amateur to pro level of play.

 

[omgwtfToph]

Getting stuff done before breakfast: the British Columbia way.

 

[JPOBS]

apparently there is only one way to play and everyone after F/F/J/S is trash.

For some reason I originally read this as meaning fox/falco/jiggs/Samus

lol.

 

[Max?]

Samus is god tier on the low.