Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[KirbyKaze]

Probably, but it would take away drillshine, which is one of my favourite things to do!

Drillshine > drillshine > drillshine would be a legitimate combo on Peach, Sheik, Marth, Falcon, Ganon and finally be resistant to SDI because of Fox's bigger shine. If you're paranoid, combo with up tilt instead.

This change would just encourage MORE drillshine.

I guess there may be something morally suspect with encouraging a change that gives Fox the ability to constantly force techs and death combo on reaction inescapably though. Kind of like Falco, but with the speed to reaction tech-chase the Dairs rather than trapping people on platforms or guessing. And a killing throw / up smash that you can also tech chase.

 

[omgwtfToph]

dair usmash would be legit lol

uthrow dair near the edge would be legit lol

 

[ruhtraeel]

does drillshine->wavedash->jab->SH drill->waveshine->jab->f-smash work against human Marths and Docs

I tried it in training mode (with AR letting me use C-stick, which I used for the f-smash) and it worked against a lv 0 computer DI


Dark did something similar I think

 

[Divinokage]

I don't think combos like that work unless you confirmed the hit before which enabled you to follow up. Because I think any character can SDI a drill and then your shine won't connect for example. =P

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

no, simply holding down when being jabbed will allow those characters to hit you before you can do anything. If they dont SDI, you can drill shine->wavedash->drill shine almost indefinitely. I know usmash works after a waveshine, but im not 100% sure about fsmash (except that m2k did it to drephen once on corneria...)

 

[xXx-NoobKing-xXx]

I suck at shine-turn around stuff. Any advice?

 

[weon - X]

yeah me 2

 

[voorhese]

uh with shine turn around if you mess up its usually cuz ur moving to fast, slow your roll and you should get it with practice.

 

[ruhtraeel]

I just can't waveshine backwards that far, or at least far enough to do anything useful.


EDIT: Shine turnaround edgeguard I learned in 5 minutes :-)

Shine up-B firefox stall edgeguard is harder




KAGE THE WARRIOR DUMP

 

[Sinji]

I suck at shine-turn around stuff. Any advice?

Well the fundamental solution to this is to tilt your analogue Stick on the 30th frame (half second) when your holding your shine. I think the first shine>turn around stuff you can try out would be shine>turnaround>wavedash to the ledge.

Remember to tilt your analogue stick.

After you get familiarize with the shine>turnaround>wavedash to the ledge, you can try out some more tactical methods like shine turn around>bair (which requires more speed), or shine turnaround>utilt.

 

[KAOSTAR]

I suck at shine-turn around stuff. Any advice?

are u talking about connecting with both shine and insert technique here?

or stuff like shine turnaround firefox stall? or shine turn around bair only meaning to hit with the bair.

 

[commonyoshi]

So does shine>wd>jab work against other foxes if I do it perfectly? I've been trying it out today (it's hard as hell), but I can only pull it off every now and then.

 

[voorhese]

its part of the thunders, it works if your opponent doesnt DI a certain way, i dont remember if its down or up or w.e

 

[ruhtraeel]

So does shine>wd>jab work against other foxes if I do it perfectly? I've been trying it out today (it's hard as hell), but I can only pull it off every now and then.

yeah it works if they don't tech and you wavedash far enough/are dashing into your wavedash


you can actually dash into shine JC grab and actually be able to grab heavies while they are sliding away from your shine

it's pretty slick

 

[Metakill]

double jump and then Dair, is a bad idea?
I ALWAYS do that..
the only like "pro" of here tell me that is bad and that's why i get punished easy.
But I need advice from other fox mains or pros <3
btw, my foxs sucks... Hope I can get videos this weekend to you my level in some video critique thread... love you all <3

 

[Rush]

I just can't waveshine backwards that far, or at least far enough to do anything useful.


EDIT: Shine turnaround edgeguard I learned in 5 minutes :-)

Shine up-B firefox stall edgeguard is harder




KAGE THE WARRIOR DUMP

Funny, because when I tried the shine turn around firegrab I got it almost instantaneously. Then again, I could already shine-firegrab when on the ledge so adding the turnaround wasn't that hard. I also got the run off stage shine turnaround bair pretty easily too. However, I still can't shine-turnaround wavedash ledgegrab because I just can't get a far wavedash as I pretty much wavedash in place after the shine-tunraround.

 

[Lovage]

double jump and then Dair, is a bad idea?
I ALWAYS do that..
the only like "pro" of here tell me that is bad and that's why i get punished easy.
But I need advice from other fox mains or pros <3
btw, my foxs sucks... Hope I can get videos this weekend to you my level in some video critique thread... love you all <3

drill sucks when ur way in the air because it doesnt knock them back, does 2% damage and has a tiny hitbox in front of u compared to nair

 

[omgwtfToph]

it's good sometimes in fox dittos cuz it beats nair and leads to stuff when you hit nair from above

could find some vids of people doing it but it's 3 AM

 

[ruhtraeel]

Funny, because when I tried the shine turn around firegrab I got it almost instantaneously. Then again, I could already shine-firegrab when on the ledge so adding the turnaround wasn't that hard. I also got the run off stage shine turnaround bair pretty easily too. However, I still can't shine-turnaround wavedash ledgegrab because I just can't get a far wavedash as I pretty much wavedash in place after the shine-tunraround.

do it the next time we play lol

are you going to Brandon's house on Saturday

we can do stuff there

 

[Diakonos]

Well, I imagine the problem would be that dair is easily out prioritized. If I see a Fox coming at me with drill, well...

as Fox:
utilt
shield->grab/nair
fh bair

as Marth:
utilt
utilt
utilt
uair
wavedash away -> tipper fsmash
lulz

Yeah.

If you're coming down with the double jump nair (let's say you psyched them out and they tried to hit you on your first jump but you double-jumped and are now coming down on them) then nair is regularly a safe move if you FF it, because you can usually get a shine once you hit the ground. If they are shielding, I'm normally able to ff the nair into a shine, then continue in shield pressure or else jump out of that shine and try, try again.

Fancy foxes might shinegrab, I don't know.

 

[Sinji]

double jump and then Dair, is a bad idea?
I ALWAYS do that..
the only like "pro" of here tell me that is bad and that's why i get punished easy.
But I need advice from other fox mains or pros <3
btw, my foxs sucks... Hope I can get videos this weekend to you my level in some video critique thread... love you all <3

Full hop dair works well against Falco. But don't use double jump dair. It's unsafe because the space animal can bair you off of the stage. and you lose your second jump.

 

[crush]

Full hop dair works well against Falco. But don't use double jump dair. It's unsafe because the space animal can bair you off of the stage. and you lose your second jump.

You still need to explain, Sinji >_>

 

[ShroudedOne]

I would just assume that double jump dair is easily telegraphed.

 

[JPOBS]

he's talking about how sinji just ripped raynex's post a few pages back.

 

[ShroudedOne]

No, no, I know that. I was just adding my own input to the double jump dair thing.

I would be QUITE interested to read some senseless, pieced together appeasement from Sinji about why he did that, though. It would be, at the very least, amusing.

 

[crush]

sinji has been my least favorite poster for a while now. a while = ~5 months

 

[voorhese]

where do i rank on that list? >_<

 

[crush]

- 5

 

[voorhese]

sweet! thats exactly what i was shooting for at the start of my posing on the fox boards =)

 

[omgwtfToph]

Well, I imagine the problem would be that dair is easily out prioritized. If I see a Fox coming at me with drill, well...

Stop right there. it's not really the idea (in a fox ditto anyway) to "go at them" with a high drill, it's more of a way to get out of the corner (particularly on, like, FD) that tends to beat out stuff like SH nair and FJ nair

 

[Sinji]

I think I have a apology to make.

Sorry RaynEX for copying and pasting your post and not acknowledging your post.

To be honest I forgot to acknowledge your post after im done with that post. and to be honest your my favourite fox player.

I hope I could be more professional in the near future.

So yea im sorry.

 

[Walt]

s'all good I'm pretty sure everyone was just having more fun making fun of you than actually caring that you didn't cite your sources

Spoiler

get at that MLA format homie

 

[voorhese]

I think I have a apology to make.

Sorry RaynEX for copying and pasting your post and not acknowledging your post.

To be honest I forgot to acknowledge your post after im done with that post. and to be honest your my favourite fox player.

I hope I could be more professional in the near future.

So yea im sorry.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Well, it was a pretty BS-free apology, so I guess that's all done with. Yeah, I was more just having a laugh with the whole thing, more than anything.

It was still very good advice, too.

 

[Palpi]

Loolollalwlalwllwlaoallwoaoow

 

[omgwtfToph]

I suspected it was the case all along that he wasn't actually attempting to pass off Raynex's advice as his own and just forgot to credit Raynex, but I thought it'd be funnier if I helped to play it up LOL >_>

 

[Diakonos]

Stop right there. it's not really the idea (in a fox ditto anyway) to "go at them" with a high drill, it's more of a way to get out of the corner (particularly on, like, FD) that tends to beat out stuff like SH nair and FJ nair

I think(?) I understand what you're saying (rising dair?), but we were talking about a fellow who said he was using double-jump dairs all the time.

Anyway, Toph, you know that my boring Fox only knows how to bair out of shield

 

[omgwtfToph]

Bair out of shield dude omg.

 

[voorhese]

I just can't waveshine backwards that far, or at least far enough to do anything useful.


EDIT: Shine turnaround edgeguard I learned in 5 minutes :-)

Shine up-B firefox stall edgeguard is harder

wait a second...i know you

 

[ruhtraeel]

wait a second...i know you

what

morethan10whats

EDIT: Oh and Daniel I realized shine firefox edgeguard is actually pretty easy when you're trying to do it

Also like shine turn around b-air edge edge recover