Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[trahhSTEEZY]

agree to disagree :D mmmmmm anal

in other news, i love your fox. alot.

how's dark doin? whens he coming to a REAL tournament?!

 

[JPOBS]

i don't think the recording bit is true at all, lovage actually made fun of that concept recently, something like 'whoever has the most recordings is the best' sarcastically.

there's so many matches compared to how many are recorded, there's no way in hell that concept is true, are you implying the more recordings you have up, the better you are?

Thats not what I'm implying directly, no. Anyone can put up vids.

What I'm saying is, at a tournament, especially a big one like genesis, there will be more vids of players who advance farther in bracket than others. Not only are they playing more sets, they are also playing longer sets (best of 5s, or two set grand finals.) Compare this to someone who goes 0-2 in brackets and theres less footage.

But the point i'm making is that those players who are advancing far in brackets probably are better and so, the more vids of them we have to "study," the better the community as a whole will get because obvously they are doing things others aren't, so we can learn from them.

We will have to agree to disagree on all other points concerning whether or not that practice should be promoted because it seems to be a fundamental difference in principles. And there's nothing wrong with being anal, if you win =)

 

[weon - X]

@trahh, how do u know my fox? i played dark in january when i went to chile, that guy is insane but by far the funnest person to play (atleast for me), i dont think he'll ever make it, hes of low resources from what ive heard

 

[Sinji]

I hope dark goes to apex. someone build a fund.

 

[unknown522]

allright so i got a tournament this next weekend, vwins is in my pool, I've never played him before, what do i do? im not very experienced in the peach match up, never really played a real peach to be honest. (sorry david). Any advice from people that have played him for player specific strategies is welcome im not that bad so please don't tell me not to nair him at 20 :S

if he turtles you, then don't feel bad about laser camping him.

2 important things to watch out when playing him:

- He will d-smash almost all the time, even when it seems like a bad time
- Watch out for WD back/Dash away -> d-smash. He tries to space himself so that your SH will miss. Because of this, I find it easy to trap him at the edge a lot. Try to play a good ground game if you're going to approach him.

 

[Palpi]

WD oos can punish a shielded dsmash, shield di away to avoid shield poke.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Aerial approach vs Peach is both viable and good, but dash camping and abusing ground approach options out of Fox's movement is easier to be consistent with and it runs less commitment issue; you can move back out of a dash but jumps force wavelands, DJs, and other commitments to back out.

 

[omgwtfToph]

allright so i got a tournament this next weekend, vwins is in my pool, I've never played him before, what do i do? im not very experienced in the peach match up, never really played a real peach to be honest. (sorry david). Any advice from people that have played him for player specific strategies is welcome im not that bad so please don't tell me not to nair him at 20 :S

One thing to remember, and a good piece of advice that Doll gave me while we were smashing: Don't be afraid to attack Peach while she's in her float. Her only real defense against Fox's nair when she's floating is her fair, but her fair is slow and telegraphed. While she's floating, she can't shield, she can't CC, she can't grab you, and the best thing she can do is hope to trade. If you land a nair on a floating Peach, you can usually combo a few more aerials at low % or go immediately into an uair at higher percents. Sometimes for the kill. I remember one stock vs. Doll while I was smashing with him I got a nair off on his float at a low % and ended up comboing into 4 more nairs and I felt like PC Chris.

Yeah but obviously that's just a small facet of the matchup. Just something not a lot of people seem to talk about.

 

[FireFly]

One thing to remember, and a good piece of advice that Doll gave me while we were smashing: Don't be afraid to attack Peach while she's in her float. Her only real defense against Fox's nair when she's floating is her fair, but her fair is slow and telegraphed. While she's floating, she can't shield, she can't CC, she can't grab you, and the best thing she can do is hope to trade. If you land a nair on a floating Peach, you can usually combo a few more aerials at low % or go immediately into an uair at higher percents. Sometimes for the kill. I remember one stock vs. Doll while I was smashing with him I got a nair off on his float at a low % and ended up comboing into 4 more nairs and I felt like PC Chris.

Yeah but obviously that's just a small facet of the matchup. Just something not a lot of people seem to talk about.

Hey tophaloph, Peach's nair is soo good though and if predicted correctly she can just float backwards, wait, and nair. If they can learn their mistakes and if the Fox does the same thing twice she'll know it's coming. o_x

 

[ArcNatural]

Hey tophaloph, Peach's nair is soo good though and if predicted correctly she can just float backwards, wait, and nair. If they can learn their mistakes and if the Fox does the same thing twice she'll know it's coming. o_x

If there is anything to learn from this. Please don't counter advice with a "counter scenario".

Your right in that you can't predictably challenge Peach's float, and your right that you need to keep in mind to mix that up. But you DO want to challenge Peach's float, just not predictably (which is every scenario in the game?). Toph is right that if you can catch Peach in float that you can combo several more hits into it.

Try not to limit your creativity by coming up with stuff that counters things your want to try or do. Use that thought process to come up with even more stuff to do when your opponent shows you he can mix it up effectively.

 

[FireFly]

Hmm sorry if it came off the wrong way but I didn't want to sound like 'counter advice' or 'counter scenario'. I was just trying to give more examples and cover all angles because weon wanted some advice and since we were on the subject of her float I figured I could try and give more.

Yes Peach's fair is good when she's floating and the Fox is looking for a nair, but it's not like it's her ONLY defense against nair, especially since it's a sex-kick and gets weaker the longer it's out.

Toph is my bru from Hawaii, I'm sure he knows a lot more about the Peach matchup since he's all over the world now and he probably has more tips against Peach's float so I'll just leave it to him now...

 

[pingding]

everytime i fight a shiek i always end up getting stuck in either uair or usmash any advice i can do to hit them before i get stuck getting hit

 

[Wenbobular]

...Don't approach Sheik from directly above?
What kind of hitboxes does Fox have that makes you want to do that anyways ...

Unless I'm interpreting the question wrong ~_~

 

[omgwtfToph]

@Firefly Yeah, but like I said, the worst thing that happens to you (even in the counter-situation you described) is that you trade your nair with Peach's. She doesn't get much out of it. Also, Peach's horizontal mobility is not very good (especially compared to Fox's; Fox is like twice as fast lol) so she can't just react to your approach and move backwards.

In other words, her float doesn't let her "dashdance" whereas a lot of people are hesitant to approach floating Peaches as if the floating Peach can actually evade. :P

 

[ShroudedOne]

Coming from a Peach main, Toph speaks the truth. Whenever I see Peaches floating around (or whenever I do it) I kind of wonder why the Peach doesn't get nair'd, or something. If she has good reaction time, she can trade with you, and if you're kinda far away, then she can time a fair (which isn't likely).

We can be naired out of float. Do not be afraid. =D

 

[Sinji]

Somthing that troubles me.

Whats the best approach against Iceys?

 

[ArcNatural]

Somthing that troubles me.

Whats the best approach against Iceys?

shine, non predictable drillshines, bair. Starting of with shine, either jumping it in or dropping off platforms or w/e work surprisingly well.

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

@Firefly Yeah, but like I said, the worst thing that happens to you (even in the counter-situation you described) is that you trade your nair with Peach's. She doesn't get much out of it. Also, Peach's horizontal mobility is not very good (especially compared to Fox's; Fox is like twice as fast lol) so she can't just react to your approach and move backwards.

In other words, her float doesn't let her "dashdance" whereas a lot of people are hesitant to approach floating Peaches as if the floating Peach can actually evade. :P

dunno if you remember but we played at evo :D you kept tryna falco ditto me

i really wanna play your ****in' fox!

Somthing that troubles me.

Whats the best approach against Iceys?

one that involves never being infront of their shield :o

 

[Wenbobular]

It's actually much safer to approach from the front, but you need to be absolutely perfect in your pressure with drillshines (basically you need to know how to Lcancel on 2 shields)

Unless the ICs can perfect shieldgrab, but I think most Foxes are better at drillshining than ICs are at shieldgrabbing

From the back you have to deal with their ridiculous Bair hitbox, from the front they have nothing that has enough range / speed to beat drillshining really ... just never miss that Lcancel

Then once you get the shine make sure Nana just dies or put as much pressure as you can on SoPo while Nana is running around being a moron

 

[weon - X]

thanks guys i read all of it, i'll try my best.

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

oh btw weon, ive just watched your vids, your fox speed/style just interested me =)

 

[Sinji]

It's actually much safer to approach from the front, but you need to be absolutely perfect in your pressure with drillshines (basically you need to know how to Lcancel on 2 shields)

Unless the ICs can perfect shieldgrab, but I think most Foxes are better at drillshining than ICs are at shieldgrabbing

From the back you have to deal with their ridiculous Bair hitbox, from the front they have nothing that has enough range / speed to beat drillshining really ... just never miss that Lcancel

Then once you get the shine make sure Nana just dies or put as much pressure as you can on SoPo while Nana is running around being a moron

Thanks for the advice. from everyone.

 

[omgwtfToph]

Yea I like weon fox :D

 

[EWC]

Good luck Camillo.

Re: approaching icies. I've had a lot of success approaching with short hop shine here. Especially on like YS. Basically you can just jump in and shine out your dash dance or whatever and then waveland away. I like this trick in a lot of matchups because it lets you get really quick hits in with having to commit to much. It's especially useful against icies though because you can seperate them pretty easily and then just go ham on pinky.

 

[L__]

so when I shield with my L button it sometimes shields for several seconds after I've let go of the button

does anyone know how to fix that?

 

[lanabo]

so when I shield with my L button it sometimes shields for several seconds after I've let go of the button

does anyone know how to fix that?

i had this problem with both my triggers. try lubing it, that fixed it for me.

 

[pingding]

...Don't approach Sheik from directly above?
What kind of hitboxes does Fox have that makes you want to do that anyways ...

Unless I'm interpreting the question wrong ~_~

im talking about when you are falling from being hit in the air

 

[Wenbobular]

O ... your question was worded pretty uhh ... whatever

DI away from Ftilt / Utilt / dash attack / Uair / Upsmash and hope for the best ... jump out intelligently (i.e. don't jump into Fairs or you're just going to die immediately)
That's about it

Don't DI away on Fairs or you're just going to die though

Correct DI requires a bit of prediction unless you have super reflexes, but sometimes you can tell if they're going to Fair if they're too far to the side, but if they're good at positioning they can do it so they don't really tell you which move they're going to use

But you really shouldn't be getting juggled to much by Uair in the first place, they have to guess pretty hard to hit you with a decent launcher out of a techchase, just be super aware of dash attack when you're out of CC % and you shouldn't really be getting launched too much in neutral

 

[Summonedfist]

allright so i got a tournament this next weekend, vwins is in my pool, I've never played him before, what do i do? im not very experienced in the peach match up, never really played a real peach to be honest. (sorry david). Any advice from people that have played him for player specific strategies is welcome im not that bad so please don't tell me not to nair him at 20 :S

lol then there's DoH you 2-0'd from pound 5 pools

 

[Winston]

Was watching the GS2 montage today for some reason and...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d250tJv2cNM#t=5m48s

...isai does a ledgedash with actionable invincibility. -___-

(this isnt a wenbo-esque lecture about how we should all be ledgedashing, I was just really surprised to see it. I had no idea it was there when I first watched it cause I was a noob back then)

 

[KirbyKaze]

Isai has always known.

 

[mers]

So I think CPing KJ64 against Marth is awesome. True, you lose uthrow uair kills, but Marth struggles so hard on that stage. Avoiding gimps is easier, top platform recoveries are handy, and his recovery blows.

 

[Druggedfox]

CPing any of the CP stages is good vs marth... he's pretty awful on all of them xD

Well, hes not awful on stadium but I don't really count that one

 

[Sinji]

I finally found out Mango's shield pressure for falco right off the bat. If he changes it, we are in trouble.

Dair>shine>fall back Dair>fsmash. All you have to do is upsmash oos.

 

[ArcNatural]

I finally found out Mango's shield pressure for falco right off the bat. If he changes it, we are in trouble.

Dair>shine>fall back Dair>fsmash. All you have to do is upsmash oos.

What part of that can you upsmash reliably?

The Fsmash can totally be grab confirmed (ie they grab you fsmash, they don't you don't fsmash)

 

[Divinokage]

I find that's hilarious that people try to grab in shield pressure.. stop doing it!! lol.

 

[ShroudedOne]

I find that's hilarious that people try to grab in shield pressure.. stop doing it!! lol.

=P It's sometimes reliable. Maybe. If they have a pattern that you notice, it's possible to shield grab during it. Most players don't take the time to shield pressure in the way that Mango does.

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

I finally found out Mango's shield pressure for falco right off the bat. If he changes it, we are in trouble.

Dair>shine>fall back Dair>fsmash. All you have to do is upsmash oos.

did you just describe one of the best players shield pressure into one string of moves?

dair shine retreat dair fsmash is the definition of mangos pressure?

youre silly babe

 

[Druggedfox]

I think grabbing is very good during shield pressure; very very few players have unshield-grabbable shield pressure. Respecting good players too much is a major problem lots of the not top tier players have, because it just exaggerates the difference in skill between them. If fox isn't immediate dairing out of shine his pressure should be *always* grabbable. In falco's case he can actually position his pressure pretty consistently so that its impossible to shield grab, but once again, no one really does this. Even the ones who do don't do it every time... Idk, people should shield grab way more often

 

[Sinji]

What part of that can you upsmash reliably?

The Fsmash can totally be grab confirmed (ie they grab you fsmash, they don't you don't fsmash)

you can't shield grab that. you'll just get fsmash again after you shield grab. Stop doing that. Buffer roll can be attempted but its not the most rewarding. usmash oos is the most rewarding.

grabbing oos is dependent on the character. Doc. for example can grab oos.