Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[ArcNatural]

Know it depends on the situation, but in general... should I shine oos or usmash oos or shine-usmash oos when I catch opponents lag and they're on top of me? can't make up my mind

Upsmash oos for most matchups is fine if they do something dumb like dash attack your shield or some type of high aerial/laggy smash on your shield. Or wavedash out to grab if it leads to more.

If you know the person your playing has solid shield pressure shine oos becomes more necessary. IE Fox/Falco shine oos is much more common. If your opponent is behind you for shield pressure typically shine oos.

I just want to remind you to keep wavedash oos into your game as well for getting out of shield pressure. Don't want to lose that.

 

[omgwtfToph]

tbqh i actually watched a few matches of myself and realized i'm probably wrong about being able to react that fast. pretty sure when i thought of melee in my head i was confusing reacting to the shine hitting and wavedashing with reacting to a drill hitting and waveshining. no one tell druggedfox that tho cuz im not going out like a sucker

i was gonna post this lol >.> glad i didn't have to call you out haha

btw i agree with everything else you said

edit: btw, I talked about this with Lucky and neither of us knew the answer to it with regard to frame data, but uhh, is fox's drill shield-grabbable if Fox tries to shine after the drill? I posited that it might depend on what frame you hit the ground (like, if you land immediately after getting one of the drill hits in, maybe shieldstun lasts long enough for you to get your shine out?).

 

[ArcNatural]

i was gonna post this lol >.> glad i didn't have to call you out haha

btw i agree with everything else you said

edit: btw, I talked about this with Lucky and neither of us knew the answer to it with regard to frame data, but uhh, is fox's drill shield-grabbable if Fox tries to shine after the drill? I posited that it might depend on what frame you hit the ground (like, if you land immediately after getting one of the drill hits in, maybe shieldstun lasts long enough for you to get your shine out?).

I've been told multiple times that it has to do with getting that last drill hit right before hitting the ground or it's able to be shield grabbed. I don't know the frame data though.

 

[Doser]

Next big tourney Lovage will gain the ability to hit confirm during a multishine, so when asked he can say he does what he wants you ****ing virigins.

 

[Strong Badam]

waveshine usmash **** on shield
1 shine hits, hitlag
2 hitlag
3 hitlag
4 hitlag
5
6
7ish jumpsquat
8 jumpsquat
9 jumpsquat
10 stufff

in general, not possible for a human to react.

 

[omgwtfToph]

ty strongbad

now go framedata (framedata in this case is a verb) my drillshine question plz thx ^___^

 

[EWC]

If the last hit of your dair comes out on your last airborne frame and you shine on the earliest possible frame, then they will be out of stun for 7 frames. That's enough for most characters to grab you if they are perfect. That's the best case scenario.

Worst case scenario is when you hit with the first frame of the last hitbox and then land two frames later; Eg you hit with frame 14 and land frame 16. This gives them a 3 frame window to grab if you shine asap.

Most of the time, you will get either this worst case scenario or the slightly better case of landing the frame after your hitbox comes out, the latter leaving 2 frames to grab; For example, if you shffl frame perfectly, you are airborne for 15 frames, and your last dair hitbox comes out frame 14, so they'll have 2 frames to grab you.

The optimal way to do shffl dairs in shield pressure is to start (the dair) on your second airborne frame. This leaves 6 frames after the shine and 7 frames after the dair. You can always get grabbed though.

 

[Strong Badam]

If the last hit of your dair comes out on your last airborne frame and you shine on the earliest possible frame, then they will be out of stun for 7 frames. That's enough for most characters to grab you if they are perfect. That's the best case scenario.

Worst case scenario is when you hit with the first frame of the last hitbox and then land two frames later; Eg you hit with frame 14 and land frame 16. This gives them a 3 frame window to grab if you shine asap.

Most of the time, you will get either this worst case scenario or the slightly better case of landing the frame after your hitbox comes out, the latter leaving 2 frames to grab; For example, if you shffl frame perfectly, you are airborne for 15 frames, and your last dair hitbox comes out frame 14, so they'll have 2 frames to grab you.

The optimal way to do shffl dairs in shield pressure is to start (the dair) on your second airborne frame. This leaves 6 frames after the shine and 7 frames after the dair. You can always get grabbed though.

this is correct.
just cuz you can get grabbed doesn't mean it's likely at all even against great players. 1 frame timing for pressing A is a retardedly hard thing to do when if you fail you get shine combo'd.

 

[EWC]

That is true. A thing to keep in mind though is that the same applies to you on the timing of the shine; It doesn't really make sense to assume that you can time your shine frame perfectly any more than it does to assume that they can with their grab.

What I would really take out of this is that, if you and your opponent are both equally imperfect, then they will grab you. That being said, it's probably easier for you to time the shine correctly than it is for them to time the grab, since you can rely on pure muscle memory while they have to react to your timing.

 

[Strong Badam]

except you do it the same every time (7 frames after landing) and they have to time it based on when the last dair hitbox hits.

 

[EWC]

Yes. that's essentially what I said in my last sentence.

 

[Strong Badam]

didn't read that far, got bored reading.

 

[Walt]

hey guys

what the **** do you do vs doc

Ask Zac dude!

Spoiler

go falco

 

[Super]

Hey guys, so a friend of mine plays Puff and he likes to sometimes rest Fox when I'm trying to u-throw u-air. So then I started timing my Uairs instead of immediately doing it after the u-throw. So I was wondering, is there anything I can do other than timing my u-air, and at what percents can I just u-air immediately after u-throw?

 

[Strong Badam]

...? you should be doing it as fast as possible

 

[Super]

Guess I was just too slow =| time to get faster at it I guess. thanks.

 

[Sinji]

Hey guys, so a friend of mine plays Puff and he likes to sometimes rest Fox when I'm trying to u-throw u-air. So then I started timing my Uairs instead of immediately doing it after the u-throw. So I was wondering, is there anything I can do other than timing my u-air, and at what percents can I just u-air immediately after u-throw?

if you delay the uair, they'll have enough time to SDI it.

 

[JPOBS]

if you delay the jump even a bit then can just jump out.

When i haven't played the matchup in a long time, i get hella rusty at upthrow upair. I'll go entire days where I don't land any because I'm not being fast enough cuz i forget the timing. rofl im bad

 

[Wenbobular]

Watch the hand
When you see lasers you can jump basically

Or when the hand goes down, whatever

 

[EWC]

Go into training mode and upthrow jiggs and hold shield down and try to jump fast enough that you barely see the shield come up. Once I learned the timing that way it stuck forever; Even after not playing for months I can always upthrow upair jiggs really fast.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Wait, so if you do that fast enough, they can't SDI it? Or do they just have less time to?

 

[Winston]

No, the point is, the faster you do it the more likely it is that you'll be able to get a bigger overlap between your hitbox and the Jigglypuff, so they'd have to SDI farther to get out of it. If you're slightly slow then maybe you'd only be able to hit them in time with the tip of the uair. If you're slower still, then Jiggs will just jump out.

 

[ArcNatural]

Another decent way to practice upthrowing upairing jiggs is practice mode FD and select "run away" on jiggs.

Everytime she tries to jump over you and di away if you grab and throw her she will max DI away from you (typically in the middle of the stage like FD). Then you can just upthrow upair and see if it combos. You can do it up to like 110% I think. but even the 100% is pretty tricky to nail it at first. Practicing that then trying to upthrow upair falcon is T.T

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

SDI and ASDI work at set distances so certain marginal gains in accuracy are unnecessary.

 

[ShroudedOne]

By the way, I've meaning to ask...what is the difference between ASDI and SDI? And auto-canceling as opposed to L-canceling? The "autos" always confuse me.

 

[Navn]

By the way, I've meaning to ask...what is the difference between ASDI and SDI? And auto-canceling as opposed to L-canceling? The "autos" always confuse me.

Automatic Smash DI is when you hold you controller in a certain way before being hit, thus resulting in some.. automatic smash-di. I'm pretty sure you can do something equal to crouch-cancelling on low %'s, even though you are in an attack animation by doing ASDI downwards.

L-cancelling is when you press L to remove some of the lag you get when hitting the ground while in an attack animation. As for auto-cancelling, some moves have no lag when hitting the ground if you use them fast enough, like Jigglypuff's bair. Thus, auto-cancelling does not require you to press anything to take effect.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Automatic Smash DI is when you hold you controller in a certain way before being hit, thus resulting in some.. automatic smash-di. I'm pretty sure you can do something equal to crouch-cancelling on low %'s, even though you are in an attack animation by doing ASDI downwards.

L-cancelling is when you press L to remove some of the lag you get when hitting the ground while in an attack animation. As for auto-cancelling, some moves have no lag when hitting the ground if you use them fast enough, like Jigglypuff's bair. Thus, auto-cancelling does not require you to press anything to take effect.

So would Automatic Smash DI be the same as just DI, in that case?

 

[EWC]

SDI takes place during hitlag. Every time you move the control stick your collision box shifts in that direction, up to once per frame of hitlag.

ASDI takes place on the first frame after hitlag is over. On that frame you move a small amount in the direction that you are currently holding the analog stick.

Regular DI different.

 

[ShroudedOne]

*blinks* I'm still confused. ASDI sounds a lot like DI to me, at least the way you're describing it. Or do you have a larger window to input DI when you get hit than you do for ASDI?

 

[Metal Reeper]

Isn't SDI = Control stick?
ASDI = C stick?

 

[Palpi]

Palpi DI is when you have immaculate DI.

 

[JPOBS]

Isn't SDI = Control stick?
ASDI = C stick?

yes, but asdi can also be done with the control stick.

 

[EWC]

Regular DI and ASDI have different effects. ASDI makes you move a small fixed distance in the direction you are holding the analog stick (or cstick). Regular DI changes the actual direction of your trajectory.

They both use the direction of the control stick on the first frame after hitlag, but if you are holding the cstick on that frame it will take precedence for determining your ASDI.

 

[Metal Reeper]

Palpi DI is when you have immaculate DI.

You should write how you DI.
It's ****.

 

[Divinokage]

Palpi DI is when you have immaculate DI.

Nah you don't know about DI. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1A55vGf4Rxo&feature=player_detailpage#t=791s =)

 

[Palpi]

You're ganon...Palpi DI is untouched by mere..mortals.

 

[Divinokage]

How does Ganon have anything to do with DI? lol.

 

[EWC]

I think the implication is that, by playing ganon, you have transcended your mortal coil.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Nah you don't know about DI. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1A55vGf4Rxo&feature=player_detailpage#t=791s =)

*hyper ventilates*

Obviously, they DO have DJs in Canada...

 

[unknown522]

well, mango gave me some advice on aim to fight m2k with this weekend.

I'm gonna try and put it to use (assuming that I even make far enough to face him).