Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[PK Webb]

I got a question about thunder combos. I noticed that about half half the time i attempt one when i jab it looks like the opponent bounces instead of just laying down and getting up like how its suppose to work. am i pressing the jab button to soon or to late?

 

[Keblerelf]

At a high enough percentage I think anyone will be bouncing off the ground.

Or the people you play against are really pro and they are DIing the jab up

 

[unknown522]

I got a question about thunder combos. I noticed that about half half the time i attempt one when i jab it looks like the opponent bounces instead of just laying down and getting up like how its suppose to work. am i pressing the jab button to soon or to late?

if their percent is too high and they DI up, they can stand up from the jab.

Jab resets usually end around 30% - 50% for most characters. On fox, it stops working at about 80%.

 

[EWC]

They can also SDI the jab up, and then it never works.

 

[Tomacawk]

They can also SDI the jab up, and then it never works.

this is the truf.

 

[SpaceFalcon]

$_$ Magus420 $_$

The point where they can begin to do a different getup than stand is based entirely on the attack's launch power, which has been multiplied by their weight, so it follows the weight list in the same way.

Attacks like Peach's jab for example, which has a fixed knockback, will always allow Fox/Falco to Roll or Attack in addition to Stand on a forced getup with it, while it will always force CF to Stand regardless of what he holds/presses on forced getup. This is because the base knockback of her slap multiplied by Fox/Falco's weight puts the launching power beyond the needed amount to allow the additional options, whereas when multiplied by CF's weight the power is below the required amount.

Regardless of the options the attack's launch power allows, in order for them to get a forced getup in the first place they need to be on the ground following the attack after like 13 frames or something, which is a short animation where they lay back down following the ground hit. If they're still in the air when the animation completes they go into a neutral fall stance and simply land on their feet and can do whatever.


This is the damage they need to be at after the hit for Sheik's Needles and Jab to allow the extra Roll and Attack options on a forced getup. Below this they will always do the normal stand on forced getup.

They both seem to have the same damages so I suppose they have roughly the same power at that damage range. Non-fastfallers won't hit the ground again nearly as fast so they land on their feet instead easily when using a Jab. FFers do this too at higher damages or when they DI/SDI the Jab upwards at lower damage.

Bowser .... 45
DK ........ 44
Samus ..... 44
Ganon ..... 43
Yoshi ..... 43
CF ........ 42
Link ...... 42
Dr Mario .. 42
Luigi ..... 42
Mario ..... 42
Ness ...... 40
Peach ..... 39
Sheik ..... 39
Zelda ..... 39
ICs ....... 39
Marth ..... 39
Mewtwo .... 38
Roy ....... 38
Y Link .... 38
Falco ..... 37
Pikachu ... 37
Fox ....... 36
Kirby ..... 35
Jiggs ..... 33
G&W ....... 33
Pichu ..... 32


For the Jab, these are the faster falling and more relevant characters that don't get out of it easily. This is the percent after the hit that these characters will begin to land on their feet if they hold UP when jabbed off the floor.

Fox ....... 71
Falco ..... 43
CF ........ 33
Sheik ..... 25
Roy ....... 20
DK ........ 19

^^ If you're wondering why Fox's is so high there it's because of his fall acceleration being much higher than everyone else's.

 

[PCHU]

I've been gone for quite some time since I got grounded.
A few weeks after I got off grounding, I fought a friend of mine.
She isn't a very good Roy main, but she's pretty much the only one I can fight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsQzefqQ9zU&feature=channel
I almost never play on this stage, and this was one of the first times I ever have.

Besides the lack of waveshine -> jab (I've got that down NOW, I didn't THEN), how'd I do?

 

[bolt.]

I recently switched from using the control stick to jump to Y. Now I am better at wavedashing and can waveshine consistently, but I got a lot worse at shffling and was wondering if I could get some help. Before the switch I used the c-stick for the dair, which was nice because I didn't like fastfalling with it all the time. I want to stick with the c-stick but it seems very situational because of momentum. So should I re learn it with c-stick or with a + directions?

 

[soap]

stay with the cstick imo.

also, control stick jumps are still easy and useful to do frame perfect full jump and double jump aerials.

 

[Milos]

PCHU - your main problems are your predictability. against a better player you would get wrecked because you go for certain moves like say a bair, and if it misses you keep going for that move until it hits. also it seems you're used to fighting cpu's because it appears you already know what combo you're going to try to do before you've even landed the first hit. you gotta react instead, because against a good player, say you wanna do a drillshine, if they sdi the dair and you still shine you'll just get grabbed and tech chased for massive %. a better option would be to drill, and if they sdi you grab and if not you shine.

also you don't laser nearly enough. roy can get the nuts camped off him, and he's soooo slow and has no range so he can't punish you that well. so learn to calm down and tack on % with lasers. also, seeing your sig, there must be players in your area, use your local player finder. melee is everywhere. i live in a small town of < 10,000 and there's someone here who i can play against, and more people within 15 minutes who can kick my ***. try and get up to illinois one weekend there are hella good players there. NC is also WAY too good, dr pp beat chu dat in grand finals IMO an uphill matchup, they're really really good. you just have to look a little harder man. trains and buses are really cheap. im only 2 years older than you and i travel through tristate by myself.

Hax$ just turned 15 last month and he's paying for his own trip to genesis. i mean, he's #1 captain falcon of all time ever, so that's a little different, but you get my point

 

[unknown522]

CC defeats roy. Dodge grabs.

 

[PCHU]

PCHU - your main problems are your predictability. against a better player you would get wrecked because you go for certain moves like say a bair, and if it misses you keep going for that move until it hits. also it seems you're used to fighting cpu's because it appears you already know what combo you're going to try to do before you've even landed the first hit. you gotta react instead, because against a good player, say you wanna do a drillshine, if they sdi the dair and you still shine you'll just get grabbed and tech chased for massive %. a better option would be to drill, and if they sdi you grab and if not you shine.

also you don't laser nearly enough. roy can get the nuts camped off him, and he's soooo slow and has no range so he can't punish you that well. so learn to calm down and tack on % with lasers. also, seeing your sig, there must be players in your area, use your local player finder. melee is everywhere. i live in a small town of < 10,000 and there's someone here who i can play against, and more people within 15 minutes who can kick my ***. try and get up to illinois one weekend there are hella good players there. NC is also WAY too good, dr pp beat chu dat in grand finals IMO an uphill matchup, they're really really good. you just have to look a little harder man. trains and buses are really cheap. im only 2 years older than you and i travel through tristate by myself.

Hax$ just turned 15 last month and he's paying for his own trip to genesis. i mean, he's #1 captain falcon of all time ever, so that's a little different, but you get my point

There's a PROBLEM.
In my city, nobody cares about Smash, and those that do aren't good.
Most of our population consists of Halo and Rock Band fans.

Also, any chance I get at fighting someone new, I can't take it.
My parents are very protective and won't let me ride with someone else.
They don't like Smash either, so they won't drive me anywhere.
I honestly doubt they'd let me drive to those places even WHEN I have a license.

 

[Milos]

rebellion appears to be your only option, you're a teenager afterall

 

[EC_Joey]

There's a PROBLEM.
In my city, nobody cares about Smash, and those that do aren't good.
Most of our population consists of Halo and Rock Band fans.

Also, any chance I get at fighting someone new, I can't take it.
My parents are very protective and won't let me ride with someone else.
They don't like Smash either, so they won't drive me anywhere.
I honestly doubt they'd let me drive to those places even WHEN I have a license.

No johns. Try harder.

If the people who care about Smash aren't good, bring them up to your level by playing them as often as you can. What do you mean by you "can't take it" when you get a chance to play against someone new?

So your parents don't like smash. Who cares? If you really want to get better at this game then you'll make them see that this is important to you. Making new friends is also part of playing Smash. Surely your parents can't forbid you from traveling to a friend's house to play video games?

If you have friends at school try to get a few interested in smash by showing them videos and other smash-related things, like Scar's combo videos I Killed Mufasa I and II.

Honestly, sitting at your computer and posting on SWF about your problems with having nobody to play isn't going to help you. You have to take initiative and solve your own issues.

 

[Milos]

agreed

that's what everyone had to do to get good

mango was only a year older than you when he won pound 3....

 

[Tomacawk]

Tomacawk was only 3-4 years older than you when he won ...........
I'll win something soon.
PCHU, honestly, I really don't like you so I may be biased but I agree with everybody else. Keep playing. Look at my vids from 2007, I was god awful, I only played cpu's but I'm geting a lot better and now attending tournaments that i'm 18 and working full time and have the $ to do it

 

[Milos]

whoa that was mean haha

PCHU just stay with it man you have to play people better than you to get better yourself

so if you really want to get better just do whatever it takes to play people better than you

 

[CanISmash]

i dont care what anyone says i thoroughly enjoyed watching the jc shines pchu. what technique do you use to do it btw? (what buttons and do u slide or what also how long have you been working at it)

also telling someone to camp or laser when they dont have to is not that bright...

but yeah your approaches are predictable, try to throw in some dd, dd-grab, dd-whatever you want.

i dont know if it was a mistake or what but you did u-throw f-air like 30x. at your level you can u-throw u-air if your playing better comp soon b-air is more reliable if people sdi.

one habit im still trying to break now that gets punished by better people a lot is waking up / teching / etc and spot dodging.

as far as playing better people, someone posted some good advice a while back.. i mean my parents care but were pretty free with me as long as i communicated with them.

just gotta show them your responsible, possibly get smashers to come to you, or keep nagging them and tell them they can stay to see for a little, introduce your parents to other smashers parents etc. just build trust

 

[SpaceFalcon]

Yeah PCHU haha your whole style is based off CPU's, if you want to practice tech just practice different approaches, sweetspotting, wavelanding, different ways to get off ledge.. I could keep going on and on.

Don't play CPU's much until you learn to practice without making habits.

 

[PCHU]

Alright.
I've taken all of your advice into account, but...
There are still a few things.

I've been trying to find people who are good for months now.
One of my friends is almost as good as me, but his parents won't let me come over.
I haven't been over in months.

And yeah, my parents actually DO forbid me to go on trips to other places.
They just hate Smash to the point of where if I tell them that I want to get better and that it's important to me, they'll say "You're getting too obsessed over this game; find another hobby".
I'm not johning, this is for REAL.
Do you guys honestly think that I would just sit around and suck at this game?
I really do want to improve.
But that's kind of difficult when I rarely fight anyone on the same level as me.

And my parents don't trust ANYONE, basically.
Anyone who they DO trust won't drive me anywhere.
I recently tried to go to Memphis (1 hour drive) with someone they KNOW.
However, they don't trust him.

I know of one person that's possibly as good as me, but I haven't seen him in months.

The Roy player is the only person I see on a regular basis, and that's because I can walk over there.
If I were to walk to my other friend's house, then it'd take me about an hour.

I'm still searching, though.
Everyone new I see, I ask them if they play.
All of them so far have said Brawl.

Is there any way I can improve alone?

(BTW, CanISmash, I use B->Y for jc shining.
I made a video on it since people asked me so much [strange they don't ask pros])
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCMLHdf-1R0

 

[KILLA.FOR.CASH.]

i'm sorry pchu

but you are 15 and you should follow what your parents say unless you want a dramatic home life

the only thing i can think of is sneaking other smashers over when your parents are at work or something

=/

 

[Milos]

there's really no way any of us can no your home situation the way you do PCHU

all i can say is that if you show them you're willing to do anything to get good at this game

get a job and pay for bus tickets, etc. 2 months after i started playing smash (dont let the join date confuse you, my first tourney was in like october, although i "played competitively" for a while before that) my parents let me take the train to philly about 2 hours away for one of Scar's tournaments.

you just have to show them you're dedicated. Parents love dedication in any way shape or form.

 

[FastFox]

Just play training mode all the time and get mad tech skillz.

 

[SinceEternity]

i'm having some trouble short hopping after switching from a flicking motion to tapping lightly, any advice? like maybe what part of the thumb of Y to hit.. I have this problem where I freeze right before I hit it and it's getting annoying ... probably just part of the process but any tips would be nice :/

 

[Milos]

use the tip of your thumb. just concentrate on letting go as quickly as you can, not pressing as quickly as you can

 

[Tee ay eye]

i'm having some trouble short hopping after switching from a flicking motion to tapping lightly, any advice? like maybe what part of the thumb of Y to hit.. I have this problem where I freeze right before I hit it and it's getting annoying ... probably just part of the process but any tips would be nice :/

Why would you switch from a flicking motion?

 

[Milos]

LOL Tee ay eye toasty was too good.

 

[idea]

all you can really do on your own is get more technical. don't play high level computers or you'll get too used to their stupid habits. other than that...you're kind of out of luck X_X

you would probably have to start lying to your parents, and i'm sure you don't want to do that. if they let you go to a sleepover at a nearby friend's house or something, rather than that, bus to a tournament somewhere =P

 

[Tee ay eye]

Connor's 15, and for West Coast Smash League, he told his mom he was going camping with his smash buddies LOL

I'm 15, but my parents ****

 

[MexicanBJ]

Connor's 15, and for West Coast Smash League, he told his mom he was going camping with his smash buddies LOL

I'm 15, but my parents ****

Ok god damm Connor the kid too fcuking cute

 

[unknown522]

that sucks. My mom let me do what I want. I started playing competitively at 14 (I'm 19 now
as of 2 fridays ago). My first tourney was when I was 15 (1 month after my join date. RaynEX and I both went to our first tourney). The tourney was fairly close to me though. I drove in RaynEX's dad's limo.

Anyways, take fastfox's advice. Falco would probably be more effective for this though.

 

[Milos]

limo? god**** i guess that thumb problem probably got first class healthcare

ok ryan come to my house right now no johns

 

[EC_Joey]

Is there any way I can improve alone?

The whole point of improving at Smash is beating other people. If you don't play other people you will never learn how to predict a human opponent's next move, or how to pressure an opponent into making a mistake, or how to properly DI a human opponent's combo.

You have to learn these basic skills to improve, and it is almost impossible to learn them by yourself.

 

[unknown522]

limo? god**** i guess that thumb problem probably got first class healthcare

ok ryan come to my house right now no johns

I already left

 

[PK Webb]

are they're any follow up after shining luigi he slides like over 9000 feet

 

[Miggz]

If he doesn't fall of the stage just SHDL/SHL.

If he does go off the stage, prepare to edge guard.

 

[SpaceFalcon]

Shining should really just be used to pressure them off the stage, that's why I always go yoshis on him. His constantly being edge guarded.

 

[PCHU]

Just play training mode all the time and get mad tech skillz.

Well, I have been.
I've got SHDL down, along with Waveshine -> jab.
BTW, what should I do after I jab?
I mean, they get back up, but I don't know what the most effective follow up would be.
Another waveshine -> jab?

Anyways, I'm working on shield pressure, which is difficult, since none of my opponents use shield for very long.
Like halfway into the drill kick they let go.
I did manage to shield pressure a friend of mine by drillshine -> waveshine behind them -> waveshine back in front of them (both shines hit the shield) and I started another drillshine.
Not impressive, but it's the best shield pressure I've inflicted with Fox.
With Falcon, all I got was SHFFL'd dairs.

-_-
Things I need to practice:
Turnaround waveshine (for the ledge; I can already turnaround wavedash, but I want to be as technical as I can be before I've practiced for a year. I'm already at 8 months).
Reverse SHDL (I can do it, but it usually goes in the opposite direction I want it to).
And, of course, I want to multishine faster (like it matters).

Other than that, I've got all of the useful stuff down.
PS.

How do you immediate walljump?
Or can it be done with Fox?

 

[SpaceFalcon]

Get a second controller, open it up to the electric board, you can adjust the shield on it so it'll hold it until it breaks, then just shield again over and over.

Or you can just tape down the L/R button so you don't need to open it.

 

[PCHU]

Get a second controller, open it up to the electric board, you can adjust the shield on it so it'll hold it until it breaks, then just shield again over and over.

Or you can just tape down the L/R button so you don't need to open it.

I actually tried that once.
It worked.
I'll do it again.