Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[Stratford]

Hey I was wondering about using shield into buffered jump for uthrow uair. So essentially you'd uthrow, hold shield and up on the cstick, and you'd jump as soon as possible after the throw animation, then uair.

I know if they DI the uthrow left or right sometimes you want to dash into your jump, so that strategy would not work in this case.

But if they DI so that you could jump right after uthrow and still hit the uair, this seems potentially useful to guarantee a really quick jump.

I guess it's not necessary if your timing is good anyway. Thoughts?

 

[RaynEX]

Hey I was wondering about using shield into buffered jump for uthrow uair. So essentially you'd uthrow, hold shield and up on the cstick, and you'd jump as soon as possible after the throw animation, then uair.

I know if they DI the uthrow left or right sometimes you want to dash into your jump, so that strategy would not work in this case.

But if they DI so that you could jump right after uthrow and still hit the uair, this seems potentially useful to guarantee a really quick jump.

I guess it's not necessary if your timing is good anyway. Thoughts?

Good concept, but I'm pretty sure that shielding will slow the whole process down. Even if its up for a split second before you jump, that split second might be all your opponent needs to jump away after d.i.ing. Also, if they d.i. left or right, you probably won't be able to get them - you can't run out of shield -> jump -> uair. So if they d.i. all you have is your aerial mobility to follow them, and sometimes that won't be enough.

 

[Meneks]

I need advice on the fox vs ic match.
Uh I already know to try and not get grabbed but this is not why im asking.
What i really want to know is how do i approach an ic player, and
what counter pickable stage choices are known to be good for this match up.

 

[RaynEX]

Pick big levels where you speed gives you a bigger advantage. Use the platforms to maneuver around/separate them while still avoiding their grabs and random disjointed hitboxes (WD fairs, uairs etc). You play hit-and-run in this match-up. The shield stun makes it hard for you to pressure when you hit their shield, and morbidly easy for them to shield grab you. All you need to be doing is overusing shine. Shine to separate, shine to gimp - then combo Popo or kill Nana as fast as possible.

If you're on flatland like FD, I suggest not running in unless they commit to lag first, because if they're good you'll take huge damage from a single grab. This strategy obtains on stages such as Dreamland and Kanto as well. If you're staring them down on even footing, get out of there immediately. Always try a different approach with the ICs. Their WD is really quick, and really long. It won't take much for them to close that space quickly and efficiently and land a grab. From my experience, approaching from the front a few times is good. Nairs or dairs, but make sure you hit the lcancels. If they block, just jump straight up and come down with another aerial; but don't overdo it. If they get smart they will start doing Uairs out of shield...

So I'd suggest waveshining backwards and trying it again. Running shine is good here too. Run at them and waveshine backwards. If it hits, run at them and continue to force them near an edge. Once you corner them and they are forced to WD into you or jump, start shining them out of their WDs and bairing. Keep them trapped and tack on damage. Learn to take control away from them. You could also run->shine->jump out->land behind them with a Fastfall->pressure them from behind (or shine again).

tl;dr - Don't commit to combos or JC shield pressure in this match-up. Focus on separating them from each other then doing as much damage to Popo as you can. When you're at relatively low percents, I'd suggest going for alot of grab uairs if you can muster it. At higher death percents, Nana might smash you and kill you if you try that silliness.

 

[Meneks]

Thanks RaynEX, very insightful advice.
I kinda figured out during a tourney match that maneuvering on the platforms was a good idea but i couldnt keep it up for long i was using falco though.
I'll definitely keep your advice in mind.
Thanks again!

 

[Stratford]

Good concept, but I'm pretty sure that shielding will slow the whole process down. Even if its up for a split second before you jump, that split second might be all your opponent needs to jump away after d.i.ing. Also, if they d.i. left or right, you probably won't be able to get them - you can't run out of shield -> jump -> uair. So if they d.i. all you have is your aerial mobility to follow them, and sometimes that won't be enough.

I think I was greatly underestimating the extra time this would add on. The time it takes to put up the shield and then jump, even if fairly quick, does seem like a waste. And also the whole DI left/right issue.

Thanks, Raynex.

 

[KirbyKaze]

just gimp them with shine spam

always kill nana whenever possible

shine > ic

 

[knightpraetor]

technically putting up the shield will probably be faster in most situations since queued jump out of shield will only waste one frame and a lot of people waste 2-3; but the reality is that losing aerial mobility makes it a useless concept. Aerial mobility >>> 1-2 frames of frame advantage.

 

[RaynEX]

Thanks RaynEX, very insightful advice.
I kinda figured out during a tourney match that maneuvering on the platforms was a good idea but i couldnt keep it up for long i was using falco though.
I'll definitely keep your advice in mind.
Thanks again!

No problem. Just remember: SHINE SPAM.

I think I was greatly underestimating the extra time this would add on. The time it takes to put up the shield and then jump, even if fairly quick, does seem like a waste. And also the whole DI left/right issue.

Thanks, Raynex.

Anytime.

Aerial mobility >>> 1-2 frames of frame advantage.

I concur.

 

[PK Webb]

when i waveshine i try to grab and half the time the grab misses most likely it due to a short wavedash but i was wondering are you suppose to JC grab after a waveshine?

 

[Silent Wolf]

dash then jc grab or jab then nair, nair at higher percents, front part of bair when they DI away to get to them or dash attack, (only when nair cant reach and percent st too high to grab) at that percent if theres platforms, jump shine under them waveland on platform fall on them with and aerial depending on DI


on a side note click on my sig for new matches everybody, fox matches to come out after this weekend

 

[Stratford]

Hey so I've noticed you can jc a shine very quickly if the shine doesn't hit anyone, but there's a very slight added delay before you can jc if the shine connects. I was wondering how long this delay is and whether or not it changes if you shine a shield, etc.

Edit: just checked Scotu's data, which answers my question.

Apparently this was a sloppy way of asking what's the hitlag on Fox's shine, which is apparently 4 frames; and how soon you can jump out of a shine, which is frame 4.

 

[Incronaut]

any tips on how to shdl? im guessing its just that my fingers arent moving fast enough...

and is it really worth doing over a shl? cause if i fast fall it, dont i get more hits in or no?

 

[Miggz]

To short hop double laser simply slide your finger (quickly, but smoothly, without lifting it) from the Y button to the B button. When you get to the B button, press it twice.

Oh and it is impossible to shdl when fast falling.

Me personally, I only use it to be flashy after I take a stock.

You are far more mobile using short hop single lasers. XD

 

[RaynEX]

The cut in mobility is worth the extra damage vs. the fat characters like Ganondorf. Gets you to those usmash and uthrow-uair percents faster.

Hi from Switzerland by the way.

 

[Tero.]

The cut in mobility is worth the extra damage vs. the fat characters like Ganondorf. Gets you to those usmash and uthrow-uair percents faster.

Hi from Switzerland by the way.

God **** your in switzerland, come to germany and let's play ​

 

[voorhese]

got any advice for me http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQ1f9sJ2JhU

i upsmash a lot more, and am smarter on the edge, but any more advice would be nice

 

[FastFox]

dash then jc grab or jab then nair, nair at higher percents, front part of bair when they DI away to get to them or dash attack, (only when nair cant reach and percent st too high to grab) at that percent if theres platforms, jump shine under them waveland on platform fall on them with and aerial depending on DI


on a side note click on my sig for new matches everybody, fox matches to come out after this weekend

This.

Nairing or bairing is a fail safe for whether or not they DI towards you, especially if it's Marth and you're accustomed to having to dash -> grab after the waveshine. I've been taken off guard by an accidental DI towards the shine by a Marth, and I end up either dashing through them or just plain missing the grab. At lower percentages I prefer to nair -> grab out of the waveshine.

 

[Silent Wolf]

you can also do jab, then assuming theyre sheilding and youve spaced it right, do utilt if they try to jump out of their shield youll clip them and if they dont you just turn around jab again. It can combo at some percents, although they have to DI wrong

 

[legion598]

hey im new to fox and was wondering if theirs something weird u have to do to wave shine marth into a grab because when I do it he can spot dodge or jab, and I swear im JCing the grab too

 

[Milos]

go faster

just practice shine -> wavedash -> dash -> jc grab a lot

 

[FastFox]

Just tap forward a bit faster when you're exiting your waveshine. You most always have to waveshine -> dash grab Marth.

 

[hubble]

Whats raynex's favorite food? I want to eat it before tourney so I can be awesome at pressing buttons.

Less important question: Fox/peach or fox/falcon in doubles?

<3

 

[Mogwai]

Less important question: Fox/peach or fox/falcon in doubles?

yes10,000char

 

[Europhoria]

Whats raynex's favorite food? I want to eat it before tourney so I can be awesome at pressing buttons.

I'm not sure about what it would be but... He likes things that have cinnamon (those bagels he cut himself slicing at ROM, Cinnamon Toast Crunch, etc) He seems to always have something like that before a tournament

 

[unknown522]

I'm not sure about what it would be but... He likes things that have cinnamon (those bagels he cut himself slicing at ROM, Cinnamon Toast Crunch, etc) He seems to always have something like that before a tournament

more like cinnamon sex crunch. But yeah, you're right.

Also honey related stuff....cheerios

 

[Meneks]

I need help ONCE AGAIN against ganons who space REALLY well.
ANy approach tactics/combo ideas would be really great
thanks

 

[Milos]

you have to space well also. dont double jump too much you'll get fair'd. drill shines are good, and waveshine until the end of the stage and then upsmash or grab -> u throw -> uair/nair/bair (usually uair or bair cause bair has more knockback than nair and does the same % give or take). going for another aerial isn't recommended, if they're spacing well you'll get fair'd or dair'd out of it, so just run away and laser.

counter pick biggggg stages. i like fd and dream land, lots of space, and if you're getting pummelled just retreat and laser.

watch out getting uair'd through platforms, be careful because the uair will cover an entire platform easily.

mix up your recoveries, watch out for fair and reverse uair.

ganon's pretty heavy so it's easier to gimp his stupid recovery than it is to wait for a high percent. nair shines are really good for setting up grabs/usmashes at low percents. nair in general needs to be abused like a lot.

also sometimes a running shine is a viable approach cause it just sets you up for so much and if you get fair'd you'll be crouch cancelling and you can roll away so the slow mother****er cant catch you.

iono just keep space and laser camp until he approaches, and punish laggy aerials endlessly.

OH also i like to angle my shield up against his aerials, you can wavedash OoS earlier and punish his lag, plus most of his aerials can't shield stab at that angle, except for rising uair.

against his recovery, refresh invincibilty and force him onto the stage. if you see him warlock kick so that he's right below you, just drop off the edge and bair him AS SOON AS YOU LET GO, and you can recover from that. but a smart ganon wont make that mistake.

if you have any other questions, IM me @ greatrhinocerous

 

[unknown522]

This matchup takes long against good ganons, because it's hard to punish them after they attack. Never attack ganon from above. Good ganons will space moves hoping that you run into them. Don't approach from platforms, otherwise he'll up-air, or f-air you. Either laser him, or SHFFL nair at him before his attack comes out. Never roll into him, and don't try to punish him out of shield (unless he overshoots really far, you might be able to shine out of shield). Watch out for his jab and F-tilt.

Pretty much, try as hard as you can to hold your ground without doing too much full-hops. Ganon has more range than you, but you can compensate by having more speed than him.

You can try run in and shine him to stop his CC bull****. Grab when you can for control, and don't let him get away.

Just remember that his fair and dair come out slow, but they also move his body, so don't miss.

I personally hate big stages vs ganon. It gives them a lot of room to "space" (camp you), but then again, you have a lot of space to camp them back if you really want to. Try to avoid getting trapped at the edge with nowhere to go. If you need a way out, always move away from him, or attack with good spacing.

One more random tactic you can try, is to wait for him to miss an attack slightly outside his range (not d-air, it'll probably beat your move), then b-air his arm before he lands.

Edit: hi milos, it's been a while.

Whats raynex's favorite food? I want to eat it before tourney so I can be awesome at pressing buttons.

Less important question: Fox/peach or fox/falcon in doubles?

<3

Fox/peach is better imo. It is better not to have 2 characters that are close to the same fall speed/weight. Also, after playing against and watching bam/vwins in teams, bam does the fighting, while vwins spams down-smash (like literally stands there and spams it) and gets away with it a lot.

Peach can also save fox a lot, while the fox/falcon team can both get gimped/edgeguarded easily, with difficulty of saving each other in the fray. Peach also doesn't need to be saved often, because it's peach, and has good ways of getting opponents off stage, and hitting multiple people at once. Also, peach's lack of speed doesn't hinder her much in teams, because of all the chaos that is going on most of the time (part of why jiggs is so good in teams).

 

[Milos]

sup man

you guys gotta come back to my crib for some more milk/****!

and i never got to play you ryan. <3 toronto

**** it maybe i'll come up there, but i'll need housing

 

[unknown522]

same old. I want to come down there, whenever I can. The milk was so sex and you're right, we didn't get to play.

come up here though. some of us can house you.

 

[(*Jman*)]

u guys should all just cp PS thats what i do =)

 

[Tero.]

u guys should all just cp PS thats what i do =)

haha yeah I do that anyway =P

JMan/RaynEx/anyone else: I need some video critique

pretty please <3

Tero (Fox) vs Yomi (Sheik) - FD
Tero (Fox) vs Yomi (Sheik) - PS
Tero (Fox) vs Yomi (Sheik) - PS

Any tipps?

 

[Milos]

same old. I want to come down there, whenever I can. The milk was so sex and you're right, we didn't get to play.

come up here though. some of us can house you.

word yo are you going to genesis? if not i could come up that weekend and play with you, if so, maybe the weekend after?

edit - post 1,111

 

[PB&J]

Im Going To Genesis..milos U Better Be There Son

 

[KirbyKaze]

haha yeah I do that anyway =P

JMan/RaynEx/anyone else: I need some video critique

pretty please <3

Tero (Fox) vs Yomi (Sheik) - FD
Tero (Fox) vs Yomi (Sheik) - PS
Tero (Fox) vs Yomi (Sheik) - PS

Any tipps?

You do too much dash attack.

 

[unknown522]

word yo are you going to genesis? if not i could come up that weekend and play with you, if so, maybe the weekend after?

edit - post 1,111

I'm down for that. I can't go to genesis.....can't get the money in time.

haha yeah I do that anyway =P

JMan/RaynEx/anyone else: I need some video critique

pretty please <3

Tero (Fox) vs Yomi (Sheik) - FD
Tero (Fox) vs Yomi (Sheik) - PS
Tero (Fox) vs Yomi (Sheik) - PS

Any tipps?

RaynEX is out of the country for 2 more weeks. I'll watch these soon.





Edit: Not bad. Everyone has things they can improve on.

- your major thing you need to work on is your combo game. You keep landing single hits with no follow-up, or you completely miss the next attack. They don't have to be like 0-death combos, but getting 2-4 hits at a time is good enough.

- land hits after a throw (obviously).

- You need to grab more and take advantage of your openings. Your opponent is open often, due to bad approach, or jumping, but you either run away and laser, stand there, or throw out a laggy move (up-smash, or dash attack).

- You need to dash attack less (or not at all). Grab, or nair instead.

- Work on your movement at close range, to force openings. You put yourself in shield a lot and then try to attack. Shiek's auto-cancel makes it really hard for you to punish. WD out of shield away from her (or occasionally roll away, so that she doesn't hit you).

- work on your technical consistency (not missing L-cancels)

- Either camp better, or don't do it at all. otherwise it will get you punished all the time, from big openings that you make on yourself.

- also, don't stop moving. You're a sitting duck that way.

 

[Keblerelf]

ok so say you are fighting a sheik and you get thrown on top of a platform.


What do you do so that you can avoid an attack?

I think that i would just tech in place and buffer a spot dodge or something

is that all i can do

 

[unknown522]

if sheik follows you correctly, there is no way out on a platform.

normal get up into CC seems the best (CC fixes bad play).

You can roll into the opposite direction depending on where the sheik is positioned.

You can also try angling your shield down to maybe block the attack, or try shining through their move.

 

[Tero.]

ok so say you are fighting a sheik and you get thrown on top of a platform.


What do you do so that you can avoid an attack?

I think that i would just tech in place and buffer a spot dodge or something

is that all i can do

Personally I think Spotdodging isn't that good in this situation. Angling your shield down or buffering a roll seems safer, get-up attack is also pretty good if they're slow enough to punish your missed tech.