Balanced Brawl Public Preview *GENESIS UPDATE*

[Amazing Ampharos]

Darkness in particular is pretty much the same as normal elements (like slash and punch), but just for the sake of clean presentation I'd prefer to use those only in select cases.

 

[hankydysplasia]

ROB needs something besides U-air that does good damage.

ROB needs something that does good damage? Damage is all ROB does!

If ROB did more damage on certain attacks, he would be less forced to use kill moves to deal damage, and every bit helps. Currently ROB has a major problem in several matchups since his damage output is so low that he can't even get his opponent into KO range.

Finally some more albeit lite ROB discussion.

I actually played with him against G&W and MK computer players for about an hour last night. And strangely enough, I think I might agree with A2ZOMG a little on this one... Sort of. At least on the fact that he could use a buff to a move that deals damage.

I think U-Air itself could use the damage buff. Both G&W and MK, his worst matchup are pretty floaty. U-Air can often combat MK D-Air camping. Also, ROB has a hard time on Battlefield, and this may help him out there a bit.

Sure, I know he could really really use a kill move, but since it doesn't sound like there's much of a push to give him one, I think the several more percent to his U-Air might be a buff that could get him into kill range with more characters faster particularly his bad matchups.

Anyone?

 

[da K.I.D.]

1. rob only needs for his up air to not be so easily di'd out of
2. i heard once that fire element attacks to more damage and kb to ivysaur
3. fox is currently nowhere near as good as diddy, thus he needs to be buffed. i suggest 4-5% on his lasers and more KB on shine as well as a harsher angle

4. this game is awful and you should all feel awful

 

[Sph34r]

Make ROB's sidesmash kill around 120% from the center of FD regardless of DI and you solve the problem. It would be fine because the range on that move is beyond pathetic.

 

[Linkshot]

Fire: Ignites Blast Box, feeds Hothead, does not hurt Red Pikmin, more potent against Ivysaur, releases target from Freeze
Electric: Feeds Hothead, does not hurt Yellow Pikmin, extra hitlag
Darkness: Does not hurt White Pikmin
Slash: Makes *ting!* sound when colliding with other Slash elements
Water: More potent against Charizard
Grass: More potent against Squirtle
Ice: Causes freezing using complex formula and possibly a randomiser

I think the following are simply status effects:
Flower: Deals continuous damage until Flower is shaken off or falls off on its own, can stack to a point
Freeze: Completely immobilises the opponent until they shake out or melt
Coin: A coin that does nothing pops out of the target's head

Anything I missed? Do I need correction?

 

[GwJ]

1. rob only needs for his up air to not be so easily di'd out of
2. i heard once that fire element attacks to more damage and kb to ivysaur
3. fox is currently nowhere near as good as diddy, thus he needs to be buffed. i suggest 4-5% on his lasers and more KB on shine as well as a harsher angle

4. this game is awful and you should all feel awful

Emphasis on the extra knockback on shine. We need shine spiking back.

 

[Browny]

4-5% on lasers...

why dont you make ness fair do 20% while youre at it >_<

 

[ffdgh]

heck no on that
ness would gimp almost everything with that buff

 

[ChronoPenguin]

1. rob only needs for his up air to not be so easily di'd out of
2. i heard once that fire element attacks to more damage and kb to ivysaur
3. fox is currently nowhere near as good as diddy, thus he needs to be buffed. i suggest 4-5% on his lasers and more KB on shine as well as a harsher angle

4. this game is awful and you should all feel awful

.....
Number 3 is lame.
Lasers are way to spammable to be something like that.
Now your saying shine should not only send them further, but also at a more fatal angle?
No way...

 

[daisho]

1. rob only needs for his up air to not be so easily di'd out of
2. i heard once that fire element attacks to more damage and kb to ivysaur
3. fox is currently nowhere near as good as diddy, thus he needs to be buffed. i suggest 4-5% on his lasers and more KB on shine as well as a harsher angle

4. this game is awful and you should all feel awful

He has recanted his statement about characters being diddy level, don't use it as a guide.

Fox was good before... now that his broken matchups are taken out I doubt he needs much more buffing, maybe like 1 % on a tilt or aerial but now a 2-3 % on one of the most spammable attacks in the game...

 

[shanus]

Fire: Ignites Blast Box, feeds Hothead, does not hurt Red Pikmin, more potent against Ivysaur, releases target from Freeze
Electric: Feeds Hothead, does not hurt Yellow Pikmin, extra hitlag
Darkness: Does not hurt White Pikmin
Slash: Makes *ting!* sound when colliding with other Slash elements
Water: More potent against Charizard
Grass: More potent against Squirtle
Ice: Causes freezing using complex formula and possibly a randomiser

I think the following are simply status effects:
Flower: Deals continuous damage until Flower is shaken off or falls off on its own, can stack to a point
Freeze: Completely immobilises the opponent until they shake out or melt
Coin: A coin that does nothing pops out of the target's head

Anything I missed? Do I need correction?

Slash has transcendent priority over normal hits.

 

[Renegade TX2000]

lol these comments are the best...

 

[betterthanbonds9]

if i add more codes, do i need to change the gameconfig.txt file?

 

[Christopher Rodriguez]

if i add more codes, do i need to change the gameconfig.txt file?

no, leave it alone

it just increases code space, but even if you have less than 255 lines of code in your gct you should have it on anyways just in case

 

[KiwiBear]

I know this has already been put out (I'm assuming this is a work-in-progress), but is there anyway to change the fact that Yoshi is STILL the only character unable to jump from the shield? Or are we leaving that as is, or we know this problem but are unable to do anything about it? :o just wanted to know.

 

[Steeler]

i suggest increasing the lag on quick draw back to what it is in standard brawl or even more to account for the fact that there's no freefall, after playing mr. doom extensively, i think it needs a slight nerf.

 

[kupo15]

I'm just throwing out there that I would stay up all night gathering data for every throw in the game if this actually existed.

You would need a USB gecko to find the data for the throws which costs about 50$. Just wanted to mention that.

 

[PKNintendo]

Wow, this looks really really solid. I can't wait to try it out.

 

[Deleted member]

You would need a USB gecko to find the data for the throws which costs about 50$. Just wanted to mention that.

tinkaman said he has one, just wanted to mention that.

 

[Rykoshet]

1. rob only needs for his up air to not be so easily di'd out of
2. i heard once that fire element attacks to more damage and kb to ivysaur
3. fox is currently nowhere near as good as diddy, thus he needs to be buffed. i suggest 4-5% on his lasers and more KB on shine as well as a harsher angle

4. this game is awful and you should all feel awful

Do sonic mains actually play this game or do they just ***** unrealistically completely unaware of the actuality of the game.

 

[zxeon]

Do sonic mains actually play this game or do they just ***** unrealistically completely unaware of the actuality of the game.

Have fun dealing with those sonic mains.

 

[Linkshot]

Slash has transcendent priority? I find a lot of weird moves clash with Marth's fSmash tipper. Mario's Jab, Luc uSmash (which is epic fun). Although, I guess the tipper isn't Slash element.

 

[Deleted member]

things like falco side B are slash, you can recognise them with the "slash" stripe that you see.

 

[Linkshot]

I think Phantasm is beaten by Luc uSmash XD I remember killing a Falco out of it like that once.

 

[Rykoshet]

That has nothing to do with the property, the hurt box of phantasm is ahead of the hitbox, you can hit fox/falco out of it with good timing.

 

[shanus]

That has nothing to do with the property, the hurt box of phantasm is ahead of the hitbox, you can hit fox/falco out of it with good timing.

Not exactly true. FOr the end portion of it, the hitbox catches up with the hurtbox as demonstrated by Magus to cover a significant portion of the hurtbox with a transcendent priority hitbox.

 

[kupo15]

tinkaman said he has one, just wanted to mention that.

Got it.

10chars

 

[Thinkaman]

Right, higher priority on slash does not mean you are invincible or your hurtbox goes away.

 

[Renegade TX2000]

lol guy complaining about ikes quick draw... who do you use again? STEEL?

 

[Steeler]

lol guy complaining about ikes quick draw... who do you use again? STEEL?

***** please

 

[Renegade TX2000]

lol ***** plz it's probably because this ike user is just clearly better then you and your not used to gimping ike at 0% anymore i think that's why.

 

[Thinkaman]

Here we go...

Change List for Balanced Brawl Genesis Edition:

*MARIO*
-(None)-

*LUIGI*
-(None)-

*PEACH*

+1% on bair
This should round Peach out in a modest but meaningful way, helping in her most difficult matchups where use of her preferred aerials is restricted.

25 degree angle and +1% damage on nair
This is a moderate buff in most matchups, but a big help for killing Falco; Falco was a bad matchup for Peach before, and Peach is one of few who strictly suffers from Falco's changes. Allowing nair as a backup KO move more often will lighten some of the rigidness of Peach's limitations at high-level play as well.

*BOWSER*

+2% on up-b (opening grounded hit)
Fortress is an important move for Bowser, as it is his fast OoS option -OR- a viable "backup" KO move if fresh. I suggest buffing it to further compensate for the removal of his other reliable KOs from grab release. Playtesting showed this move surprisingly effective against ranged characters due to their frequently slower grabs. (Or lack of armor in Olimar's case.)

*DONKEY KONG*

+1% on down-b
This will subtly increase DK's ability to deal with defensive play, a matchup weakness.

*DIDDY KONG*
-(None)-

*YOSHI*

Compensated for knockback on all tilts
Neither can't KO, so they should remain just as good at comboing. I admit this as an oversight.

*WARIO*

Removed chaingrab
This moderate nerf helps Wario's previous easiest matchups against him very elegantly.

*LINK*

10 degree angle on arrows instead of 350
This will somewhat unpolarize Link's new play against poor recoveries. Testing has showed an appropriate impact by this change.

*ZELDA*

-1% and flower element on jab
Jab is given spacing utility to set up f-tilt. That animation magically putting a flower on the enemy's head looks natural and cute is a novel bonus. Useful in corners and against Peach, a previously awful matchup.

Reduced knockback and 10 frames less ending lag on f-tilt
This allows Zelda a pseudo-safe move for attacking enemy shields, vaguely like DDD f-tilt. Especially at medium-high percents, it has serious potential for setting up u-tilt and u-smash. Inner hitboxes (that KO at high percents) can remain unchanged.

90 degree angle on u-tilt
A small increase in KO potential on a reliable move. (I consider this the most "optional" buff, tagged for removal if Zelda turns out to be above where we want her.)

Tweak f-smash to be more difficult to escape
Reinforce Zelda as a reliable KO character to more naturally compliment Sheik.

Increase angle on d-smash 5 degrees.
D-smash is often tech-able as is; the slightest of angle buffs addresses this in most cases, and makes our previous buff to the move actually matter. Again, slightly reinforcing reliable KO power.

+2% and increased constant knockback on up-b vanish
Makes Zelda's only trick move worth doing; around 80%+, it can combo into the ending hit when done sideways across the stage.

+4% and light spike knockabck on up-b reappear
The primary purpose of this is to allow Zelda to u-smash or u-tilt a surprised opponent after teleporting into them.

:shiek: *SHEIK*

+1% on close needle hitboxes (3% -> 4%)
Sheik relies strongly on needles for many problematic matchups, such as Olimar and ICs. (Matchups Zelda isn't always too keen herself on...) However, leaving the far hitboxes at 2% let's us be confident Sheik's projectile use will remain more like Luigi's or Wolf's, and not Falco's.

F-smash always connects, but has lower growth
This solidifies Sheik as a damage racking character and makes her flow better.

80 degree angle and lower knockback on dash attack
This let's dash attack more immediately and reasonably threaten to punish after the hit at lower percents with followup aerials or sometimes f/u-tilt.

+1% damage and upwards knockback on dair
More utility on one of Sheik's more difficult moves.

*GANONDORF*

D-smash always connects, +1% on second hit
This buff is of small benefit to his core tech chasing game, but a huge advantage against Olimar, one of Ganon's worst matchups currently.

16/11 damage on down-b, with knockback compensation
This allows Ganondorf to ram through many projectiles and weak jabs/tilts, as well as power entirely through firebreath or repeating jabs... If his down-b is fresh! This new found utility is in most cases, one-use-per-stock. One more handy trick for Ganondorf, without redefining his design.

Unable to punish Ganon out of up-b
A nifty change that Ganon will appreciate against many matchups that give him trouble, including Meta Knight most of all.

*TOON LINK*

F-smash always connects
A healthy, meaningful buff to this mid-tier trying to keep up.

D-smash always connects
A situational nerf that reduces his niche reliance on it's wonky behavior on some stages.

*SAMUS*

Lower angle and altered knockback on f-tilt
This is a small buff for Samus getting people away from her and following up with what Samus does best.

*ZERO SUIT SAMUS*

+1% on d-tilt
This modest buff helps ZSS with shield pressure and specifically against Falco, a worst matchup.

Slightly increased knockback base on paralyzer to extend stun (both levels)
This allows grabs out of paralyzer, a serious buff that is not to be underestimated.

Removed chaingrab
We totally missed this, we admit it.

*PIT*
-(None)-

*ICE CLIMBERS*
-(None)-

*R.O.B.*

Altered knockback and 18 degree angle on f-tilt
This allows ROB to set up for a high-% KO with gyro or laser if they miss the tech; it is impossible to jump out of with any character. The use for gimping characters with the new angle is limited to non-existent, with the knockback as weak as it is.

+1% on strong laser
This encourages ROB to make use of his strong laser rather than the much-more damage-efficient spammable one. The small increase in knockback that comes with it is modestly appreciated by ROB, especially for getting enemies off stage.

*KIRBY*

+3% to rock (aerial falling)
This somewhat situational but potent buff leverages one of Kirby's more risky moves to help in problem matchups where it is a solid edgeguard tool... no pun intended.

Improved copy powers for Shield Breaker and Nayru's Love
Marth and newly buffed Zelda are considered two of Kirby's hardest matchups, but they are both rather unaffected by the rock buff and both offering useful powers for Kirby to take. SB has 1% extra damage uncharged and hits at an angle more inconvenient to Marth. Nayru's Love does a bit more damage and puts the enemy Zelda up instead of out.

*META KNIGHT*
-(None)-

*KING DEDEDE*
-(None)-

*OLIMAR*

Color-coordinated buff to up-b
This welcome buff to one of Olimar's more niche, laggy moves is intended to be a small help against floaty characters who refused to get grabbed.

*FOX*
-(None)-

*FALCO*
-(None)-

*WOLF*

+3% to nair initial hit, +1% to others
A moderate buff to a poor move. The potential to use it as a backup KO move can be very much appreciated by Wolf.

*CAPTAIN FALCON*

-3% on knee
...so that's +3% total. Still deadly.

+1% to second hit of nair
...so that's +2% total. Not a big change, but more Falcon matchup data is needed.

*PIKACHU*

Speed up grab break animation from 1.33x to 1.50x
This makes Pikachu's u/d-throw behave like we always wanted them too.

*POKEMON TRAINER*
-(None)-

*LUCARIO*

+1% to all smashes, f-tilt, d-tilt, and dash attack
Substantial but evenly spread buffs help Lucario fight his way through a scary new world.

*JIGGLYPUFF*
-(None)-

*MARTH*
-(None)-

*IKE*

Removed f-throw chaingrab
A noticable nerf to Ike, both in general and on stages with corners. He can still do b-throw chains on Pokemon Stadium, but you have to be pretty dumb to follow Ike to his lair.

+1% on f/b-throw
A modest, partial compensation for the f-throw nerf.

25 degree angle on d-smash outer hits
This situational buff is primarily helpful against Olimar, possibly Ike's new worst matchup. (And affected less by his new-found side-b) In most cases, Ike will continue to use much less punishable moves.

*NESS*
-(None)-

*LUCAS*
-(None)-

*MR. GAME & WATCH*
-(None)-

*SNAKE*

-1% on f-tilt, first hit
Snake was still a little too good...

+3 knockback growth on u-tilt
...but u-tilt needed a LITTLE power back...

Increased knockback on d-smash
...and he needed something fun to play with.

*SONIC*
-(None)-

Files can be found here, same as originally. Thanks to everyone who has provided feedback so far, and we hope your continued input will help us make the best final release possible!

 

[zxeon]

Fix those code names and put the credits next to them.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

We have updated the credit section.

 

[Steeler]

lol ***** plz it's probably because this ike user is just clearly better then you and your not used to gimping ike at 0% anymore i think that's why.

who do you think you are scrubbbbbbbbbbb ooooooooo

to be clear, i agree with the QD buff but it needs to be toned down a bit. ike just went from bottom tier mobility to high tier. i argue that he be brought down to "average".

 

[Deleted member]

thanks for the credit, I appreciate that.

 

[iLink]

Hmm... I would have preferred Lucario got the damage buff on his fair. It does a pitiful amount of damage even when he is in the higher percents. I usually see it doing about 3-4% a hit. The other buffs are nice but those are rarely used attacks (not including his smashes).

Dash attack is good if it lands but it can be easily punished with a shield grab. Dtilt is outclassed by utilt. Ftilt is alright I guess but it's usually better to do jabs.

 

[Linkshot]

The fact that fAir is an inescapable chain of its own on certain characters makes it more like 17% total with possible gimp.

 

[MK26]

I like Kirby's rock damage buff and the copied SB/Nayru's angle changes, but where's element 0F on his swallow?

Also, are any other codes (unrestricted button mapping editing, vibrant shields, etc) going to be added?

 

[Linkshot]

I can see the shields just fine already. Is this a hack for colourblind?