ZSS General Discussion

[Supermodel From Paris]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHwzYfpgC5c vs Mikehaze
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zg_gkZsqG2E vs Mikeneko
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBGffJfBkd0 GF vs m2k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwO2L1_CPmA WF vs m2k

Mikeneko was doing exactly the right stuff, and started winning in game 3/4, but Salem just won anyway after changing how he was playing. Perfect shielding slows ZSS down a lot but it doesn't shut Salem down completely... which is what I've always said about it. >_>

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Like, do people not know ZSS kills really early? There are basic facts about each character everyone knows, like when they can kill you, how much damage they can do, what their punishes are like and so on. I'm always so amused when the commentary says stuff like "oh, wow, zss can link dash attack to up tilt?!"

This is exactly why I feel like the commentary was lackluster at APEX. A good commentary shouldn't be trying to make these elementary kind of things "hype". They should be explaining what kind of situation it puts the other player in and talk about what's going on. I'm so sick of commentators trying to do wombo-combo hype stuff. At least it wasn't too terrible at APEX. :/

 

[D. Disciple]

Disregard post

 

[fkacyan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHwzYfpgC5c vs Mikehaze
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zg_gkZsqG2E vs Mikeneko
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBGffJfBkd0 GF vs m2k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwO2L1_CPmA WF vs m2k

Mikeneko was doing exactly the right stuff, and started winning in game 3/4, but Salem just won anyway after changing how he was playing. Perfect shielding slows ZSS down a lot but it doesn't shut Salem down completely... which is what I've always said about it. >_>

Of course powershielding by itself does nothing - The spacing at which you do it and what you moves you use to follow it up with are the important aspects.

 

[∫unk]

Like, do people not know ZSS kills really early

When does ddd's fresh b-air and f-air kill a mk? Who knows. When does ddd's 1-stale and 2-stale aerials (significant dropoff in power on the first 2 stalings of a move) kill a mk? Who knows.

It's not "obvious". There are ranges when kill moves are reasonable. Ally dropped sets this weekend because he staled his u-tilt right before it could kill. Even though he has 10000x experience compared to anyone on these boards, he wasn't able to judge a kill in an experienced matchup correctly.

The reason a lot of people don't know how to fight zero suit samus is because the game has a lot of problems with it and isn't popular anymore. The biggest games draw the biggest competition. Brawl's primetime has long come and gone.

 

[Biz_R_0]

Last year's Apex was the biggest Brawl tourney ever, it's not "long gone".

 

[∫unk]

Brawl's prime time is gone. Other games crush it in popularity on a scale of 1000:1.

Smash has the potential to be one of the most popular games, if not the most popular game in history. I guarantee you if smash 4 has a decent wifi and more balance there will be top players coming in from other genres and games, instead of just lovers of the game.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Salem i c u lurkin

 

[#HBC | Joker]

LOL btw at some of the commentary on ZSS at Apex. My favorite part was when M2K got dsmashed at like 94%, sitting at 105% after the dsmash, and i thought "if salem uses fair and lands both hits he's dead." Salem killed him, crowd and commentary can't believe MK died.

Like, do people not know ZSS kills really early? There are basic facts about each character everyone knows, like when they can kill you, how much damage they can do, what their punishes are like and so on. I'm always so amused when the commentary says stuff like "oh, wow, zss can link dash attack to up tilt?!"

ZSS fresh side-b kils MK at like 100, fair at around the same time, and bair a little later, the issue is that it's really easy to stale moves with ZSS. But fair was fresh, obv it is going to kill.

I was cracking up at some of the stuff the commentators were saying. Like, they were getting so hyped over Salem doing basic ZSS stuff. Like, I don't even play ZSS, and i'm certainly not an experienced or longstanding member of the smash community, and I was just rolling my eyes.

You'd actually be surprised by how many people forget ZSS is even a character in the game, because she's not on the Character Select screen. Or maybe you wouldn't be surprised, since you guys here prolly hear that kind of jank all the time as actual ZSS mains

EDIT: I see Salem lurking. Congratz on your Apex win, man! You played phenomenally.

 

[Juushichi]

I have a feeling that NR will not show up in this board for a long, long time.

Congrats Salem! You did a lot of work yesterday.

 

[Baskerville]

To be fair to the commentators, it was like what, 3:00am there? They probably didn't get any sleep.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

To be fair to the commentators, it was like what, 3:00am there? They probably didn't get any sleep.

That's true. They didn't know Marth's dsmash was a good smash attack either, and they were surprised every time mikenecko killed with it. Not limited to lack of ZSS stuff.

 

[Salem]

God Zamus.

 

[Tesh]

Ya'll are stupid if you think anyone is going to every little detail about every character in this game. If people did, Salem wouldn't have gotten money. You should be happy people haven't gone to the lab on ZSS instead of mocking their commentary.

Big congrats to wifi, zss, salem. That was quite a show taking back Apex GF.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Ya'll are stupid if you think anyone is going to every little detail about every character in this game. If people did, Salem wouldn't have gotten money. You should be happy people haven't gone to the lab on ZSS instead of mocking their commentary.

Big congrats to wifi, zss, salem. That was quite a show taking back Apex GF.

Naw that isn't what I mean. But everyone knows for example that if you're at like 90 vs. Snake you're in danger of dying to up tilt. You know that at like 140 you're going to die to a fresh Diddy fsmash.

 

[RATED]

SFP : You have the best avatar in the existence of smashboards.

PS: congrats Salem. I liked how you kept your composture even after such "hype".

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

i already dislike this thread even more than usually

thio where r u

 

[Tesh]

Naw that isn't what I mean. But everyone knows for example that if you're at like 90 vs. Snake you're in danger of dying to up tilt. You know that at like 140 you're going to die to a fresh Diddy fsmash.

Because those characters have been relevant for years, genius. If Salem and other ZSS keep this up, people WILL know these things. Look at Mikeneko, people went crazy over every Dsmash killing below 130 or so, because Marth has been irrelevant trash for so long.

Go see how much you know about any unsuccessful unproven character below B tier.

Ugh, its just like Sonic all over again, everyone is like "lol he not know about sonic kill moves".

Really happy that people cheered on M2K. He really brought it back, I lost all hope when I saw Nairo throwing a 5 year old's super market tantrum while losing to Otori. M2K was shrugging and pouting but whoever was next to him was telling the crowd to get on his side and it worked.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

i dunno, for as much as people claim to know about zss (while still losing to her) you'd think they'd know when her moves kill (which is all around the same %, btw) but you make a pretty good point nonetheless.

BTW I spoke briefly to m2k on facebook and he says he's thought ZSS is top tier for a while, maybe since he's been playing with salem or something.

 

[Dakpo]

Brawl's prime time is gone. Other games crush it in popularity on a scale of 1000:1.

You are reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetarded. What gameS have any shred of popularity that lasts more than a year or 2 that compares to how the smash games live on MANY MANY years after their release. CoD/Halo/CS/SC all get back seated to smash because they release another game and the previous one is completely abandoned. Street fighter and MvC may be the only example of a game retaining a long lasting fan base (besides some PC games)
And thats just the competitive level. Look how many copies of Brawl have been sold compared to MvC 3 or SF4, I guarentee it will be at LEAST twice as much. Smash is amazingly popular. Get yo facts straight, Smash da bess

 

[PEACE7]

Damn so many people are going to pick up ZSS for like a month and drop her lol

SFP that avatar is pure win

 

[Mampam]

"kinda the best in the world"

 

[Linkshot]

Wanna drop it here that Salem has been my favourite Smasher since he first emerged. Shoutouts to the best trickster I've ever seen!

 

[Maven2]

That's true. They didn't know Marth's dsmash was a good smash attack either, and they were surprised every time mikenecko killed with it. Not limited to lack of ZSS stuff.

Is that the reason they were surprised? Because they didn't know it was a good smash attack? I think most of the hype over the kill moves - Marth's, ZSS's, or otherwise - was because those moves were, you know, killing people. They were just getting swept up in the match (or being impressed with good reads), not going through the mental process of "wow, I didn't know that move could kill at that percent, how impressive." I don't remember the commentators exact words though, so I could be wrong.

 

[Jon Farron]

Congrats Salem!


Wow, ZSS won o.o

 

[FEAR977]

Salem OP

 

[Eddie G]

I feel honored to have even gotten Salem to last hit and reverse his armor piece game once before he proceeded to download and two stock me the following match. A true champion.

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

Brawl has sold over 10 million copies worldwide, while SF4AE, & Marvel are at the 1.5 million range each. Do the math! If SSB4 is fixed for competive play, you could be looking at the biggest, most competive fighting game of all time history.

 

[Biz_R_0]

**** this is hard. I knew it wasn't going to be easy to pick up Zamus but I can't do ****, not even against the AI. Oh well, I guess I'll just have to persevere and get that timing/movement down.

Also, anyone know where I can find the GFs?

 

[ぱみゅ]

ZSS is surely hard, she surely has plenty of good tools, but you can't just throw them out, you need to be smart and use them only when you need to.
Very similar to Marth in that regard.

 

[PEACE7]

**** this is hard. I knew it wasn't going to be easy to pick up Zamus but I can't do ****, not even against the AI. Oh well, I guess I'll just have to persevere and get that timing/movement down.

Also, anyone know where I can find the GFs?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBGffJfBkd0

 

[Biz_R_0]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBGffJfBkd0

 

[Chronodiver Lokii]

Also have fun
You'll have zero recovery game for a bit
It hurts

But when you get used to it her recovery is one of the more versatile (but risky) in the game

'Good ZSS's never get gimped' <3

 

[ぱみゅ]

'Good ZSS's never get gimped' <3

This is a common statement...
which means I still have a lot of work to do

 

[PEACE7]

So i was doing some more testing with the pushing through AT and I'm almost certain its possible on FD.

 

[Linkshot]

I should probably pick ZSS back up to fit with my whole trickster theme the past year...

I think APEX got the Melee host of my region into Brawl. He wants to pick up ZSS too since he's a Falcon main in 64 and Melee.

 

[Dnyce]

He wants to pick up ZSS too since he's a Falcon main in 64 and Melee.

Makes sense...

 

[infiniteV115]

It's funny, I was just thinking yesterday that Salem being in WFs and GFs for Brawl was a REALLY good thing because it could attract some attention to Brawl since he's so fun to watch. There were a few Marvel players watching top 8 and they were going crazy, and I was also thinking it might get some Melee players to change their minds about Brawl...maybe.

Also wut at pushing through being possible on FD...vid please lol

Also ZSS should still get gimped every now and then (ie not consistently) by MK, and a few others if she has to momentum cancel with downB.

Also, sorry Justin, but
Salem > Nick Riddle > Quiksilver > (V115/DRN)

My feelings on the ZSS players after Apex. Dunno where to put Tay/Serudos/Kamemushi

 

[Linkshot]

Makes sense...

ZSS has Falcon 64's juggles and Melee Falcon's speed and finishers, so that's why I suggested her to him.

 

[Darky-Sama]

Just a word of advice to everyone visiting from the other boards:

STOP SAYING YOU'RE GOING TO LEARN ZSS AND JUST LEARN TO PLAY AGAINST HER.