~ Zelda Q & A / FAQs / Directory ~

[AzNfinesse]

only way to get better with her recoveries is memorizing the distances and placings of her FW. there is a section in the guide that briefly talks about FW and its physics, so it worth at least giving a scan over. it's a tough recovery to master, not to mention one of the most gimpable ones, but it's not the worst so it's all good.

and zelda does make a solid secondary once you have the matchups down. she makes an excellent WTF character, cause most people don't expect to fight a zelda in a tournament match.

 

[Popertop]

very true.

I played against a zelda in pools and he beat my lucario.


I raged hard.

 

[KayLo!]

she makes an excellent WTF character, cause most people don't expect to fight a zelda in a tournament match.

Too true. Way back in the day (a.k.a. before my massive break, lol), I won vs. a decent Marth in tourney because he had no idea what to do vs. Zelda. He was obviously only decent, though, because a better Marth would have figured out the spacing a little bit quicker..... oh well.

Anyways. Don't listen to MrEh. Zelda's pretty solid as long as you know which matchups to use her for and work on the fundamentals, like spacing, accurate recovery, and punishing. She makes an excellent low tier tourney character, too, if your region allows her.

 

[MrEh]

Zelda's pretty solid as long as you know which matchups to use her for

Essentially, the only way Zelda is decent is if she's fighting a character crappier then herself.

Enjoy beatin up on those E tiers.

 

[Popertop]

yeah, basically low tier and as a pocket surprise character.

lol MrEh, that or D3

 

[MrEh]

yeah, basically low tier and as a pocket surprise character

Problem is that even if you use her as a surprise character, her chances of winning are still extremely low. (against characters that matter anyway)

Like, throwing her out against a random IC or ROB might work. But throwing her out against MK? That's like asking for death, even if the MK has no idea how to fight a Zelda.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

even if the MK has no idea how to fight a Zelda.

Does an MK have to know how to fight anyone? I'm pretty sure the same strategies are universally applicable.

 

[MrEh]

Does an MK have to know how to fight anyone?

Yes. But not Zelda.

I'm pretty sure the same strategies are universally applicable.

And I'm pretty sure they aren't.

ICs, Snake, and Diddy are good examples of characters that force MK to approach the matchup differently.

 

[Darkmusician]

Playing the same way against everyone with MK is a bad idea.

There are some characters that force MK to play differently. Like Snake and his nades and ICs and their 0-death grabs. Also in MK dittos and against Wario it's mostly spacing spacing spacing and slow damage poking. Very boring but it must be done to have the best chance of winning. I wouldn't get careless against a Bowser either.

But yes MK vs Zelda is something that MK can easily win even if the skill level is slightly in favor of the Zelda. Just cause it's MK. Same with Snake.

Zelda's an all around impractical secondary because she counters very little and gets countered by many. (Especially if you wish to place high in large tournaments where top/high tiers are everywhere) If you use her to the point where you specialize in her it'll make up for alot of her character weaknesses with individual skill.

Chad you ninja-posted me. lolz

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I was making a hyperbole . . . aparently it is currently lingering in the stratosphere.

 

[zeldspazz]

Im confused

I just read a thread about jab locks, and it said that Zelda can use these moves to jab lock:

Jab
Bair
Fair

How is that possible >.<

 

[AzNfinesse]

If you use her to the point where you specialize in her it'll make up for alot of her character weaknesses with individual skill.

that's just the key point. it's all about your playstyle. yes, i admit, i'll never EVER use zelda against MK, Snake, G&W, and Oli. That's what my G&W is for. However, there are matchups where my G&W and my D3 will have trouble, and my zelda will succeed. It's all about the situation, and how comfortable you are using zelda. yes, i know she's a horrible character, but there is an old saying:

"you can have the best pistol in the world, but if you don't know how to use it, and you're up against someone with a dull knife with over 40 years of fighting experience, there's a good chance you will lose."

although this is a little off-topic, i had to get it off my chest.

 

[sasook]

Im confused

I just read a thread about jab locks, and it said that Zelda can use these moves to jab lock:

Jab
Bair
Fair

How is that possible >.<

The thread in tactical by saviors? Pay no attention to him, the guy is a moron. I commented on that thread, because he thinks Link's ftilt jab locks (which is a KO move). Seriously, ignore him, he'll flame you if you argue because he thinks he's absolutely right about everything, even when he's wrong. Which is most of the time.

Ask Sihi about him, I'm sure you'll get a colorful response.

 

[mountain_tiger]

Im confused

I just read a thread about jab locks, and it said that Zelda can use these moves to jab lock:

Jab
Bair
Fair

How is that possible >.<

You can actually jab lock with Bair and Fair. I've done it a couple of times. I could tell because they did the spastic bounce animation thingy. Yeah... You can't actually continue it though.

 

[SinkingHigher]

The thread in tactical by saviors? Pay no attention to him, the guy is a moron. I commented on that thread, because he thinks Link's ftilt jab locks (which is a KO move). Seriously, ignore him, he'll flame you if you argue because he thinks he's absolutely right about everything, even when he's wrong. Which is most of the time.

Ask Sihi about him, I'm sure you'll get a colorful response.

*resists the urge*

 

[zeldspazz]

Lol ok thanks guys

 

[KayLo!]

Like, throwing her out against a random IC or ROB might work. But throwing her out against MK? That's like asking for death, even if the MK has no idea how to fight a Zelda.

That's just common sense. You'd never use a secondary against one of their worst matchups, lol, regardless of the character. Just throwing that out there.

You can actually jab lock with Bair and Fair. I've done it a couple of times. I could tell because they did the spastic bounce animation thingy. Yeah... You can't actually continue it though.

They bounce once, but the next time you hit them, they get up and do their normal flinch animation. It's not a lock at all.

 

[SinkingHigher]

KayLo, to saviorslegacy, Zelda's jab is a lock because it has multiple hits.

 

[Half-Split Soul]

I wonder how it would even be possible to hit someone lying on the ground with her jab to initiate "the lock"... it doesn't make any sense.

 

[mountain_tiger]

I wonder how it would even be possible to hit someone lying on the ground with her jab to initiate "the lock"... it doesn't make any sense.

There are tons of things in Brawl that don't make sense. It doesn't make sense that Snake's UTilt extends 10 feet in front of him when his foot only goes above him. It doesn't make sense that King Dedede can infinite five characters with pretty much no connection between them. It doesn't make sense that mr. Game and Watch's bucket cancels all of his momentum.

By comparison, Zelda's jab hitting opponents lying on the ground is entirely feasible.

 

[KayLo!]

By comparison, Zelda's jab hitting opponents lying on the ground is entirely feasible.

But... I don't think it actually does hit people lying on the ground, lol.

 

[Half-Split Soul]

But... I don't think it actually does hit people lying on the ground, lol.

That's right, it hits way too high for that. I meant that the idea of jab locking someone with it doesn't make any sense.

 

[mountain_tiger]

But... I don't think it actually does hit people lying on the ground, lol.

Er... yes it does. Go into training mode and go against Bowser, Donkey Kong or for that matter any big and bulky character and check for yourself. The jab hits them when lying down. The smallest character that this happens to is Ganondrof AFAIK.

 

[Kataefi]

On missed techs, fair and bair combo into each other according to our ol' chum ninjalink because of jab lock properties

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcoAp0cU8XI

If there's a way to set this up without making it so situational then this would be a good damage builder for platforms.

 

[KayLo!]

@HSS: I was talking to mountain_tiger. x.o

Er... yes it does. Go into training mode and go against Bowser, Donkey Kong or for that matter any big and bulky character and check for yourself. The jab hits them when lying down. The smallest character that this happens to is Ganondrof AFAIK.

So.... three, maybe four characters? That's more of an exception to the rule, but okay...... point, I guess.

On missed techs, fair and bair combo into each other according to our ol' chum ninjalink because of jab lock properties

They bounce once, but the next time you hit them, they get up and do their normal flinch animation. It's not a lock at all.

That one bounce is what I was referring to. But every time I've tried to do an actual lock, they go into normal flinch mode on the second hit. So, for instance, in NL's video: if he'd sourspotted the bair instead of sweetspotting, it would have caused Marth to do his normal flinch as opposed to locking him.

Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but that's what I've gotten out of every time I've tested it.

Not that it really matters. Locking with fair/bair is ridiculously impractical anyway.

 

[Kataefi]

Yep that's right Kay... only once they can bounce... it's strange how it all works. I'm talking about ways in which the opponent can miss a tech landing on a platform though to set this double kick trap up. But it's just far too situational.
_

I have a question - can you SDI normally when the C-Stick is set to attack?

 

[Popertop]

I read in the guides that they say to Bair out of shield

so you turn around to punish out of shield?

I thought you were supposed to go for shieldgrabs

 

[MrEh]

I read in the guides that they say to Bair out of shield

Old guide is old.

so you turn around to punish out of shield?

No. You shield and if your opponent attacks your back with poor spacing, then Bair is an option. It's not a good option obviously, since it requires bad spacing on your opponent's part. (fatties or characters with no range are an exception)

I thought you were supposed to go for shieldgrabs

Zelda's grab is waaay slow.

 

[Darkmusician]

Depends if you want to rack up damage/edge guard or if you want to go for the kill.

And yes if you shield grab someone with Zelda they messed up pretty bad.

 

[KayLo!]

And yes if you shield grab someone with Zelda they messed up pretty bad.

Not necessarily. Depends on the move.... some moves have pretty bad shield disadvantage on a normal shield. And if you perfect shield, you're guaranteed a grab in most cases.

Actually, considering cooldown lag and Brawl's relatively low level of shield stun, a large number of moves aren't safe even vs. Zelda's laggy shieldgrab if they're in range.

 

[Kataefi]

I always do turnaround shield > Bair OoS for some reason It's just a habit.

Works on a lot of jabs and tilts on her shield but smashes are a no no, basically everything with minimal shield push... you can jump whilst your shield is being pushed back but smashes seem to have longer shield stun.

I've made a pseudo list on the moves that can be Bair'd OoS, spaced and badly spaced. I'll make a thread about it.

 

[Darkmusician]

Not necessarily. Depends on the move.... some moves have pretty bad shield disadvantage on a normal shield. And if you perfect shield, you're guaranteed a grab in most cases.

Actually, considering cooldown lag and Brawl's relatively low level of shield stun, a large number of moves aren't safe even vs. Zelda's laggy shieldgrab if they're in range.

Good players won't use those unsafe moves against her shield like that. They will space it so that they won't get grabbed.

 

[KayLo!]

Good players won't use those unsafe moves against her shield like that. They will space it so that they won't get grabbed.

Good players won't space anything to get punished by any move, but it still happens all the time.

EDIT: For clarification, afaik, we were talking about the speed of Zelda's grab being a problem, which implies we were assuming the opponent is in a position to be shieldgrabbed in the first place.

 

[Darkmusician]

Which means that they messed up. And you're right it happens.

 

[KayLo!]

........I feel like we're missing each other's points here. Or maybe I misread something, who knows.

But, whatevs, my point is that Zelda's relatively slow grab speed =/= she can't shieldgrab when in a position to do so.

I probably should have quoted MrEh instead.

 

[Darkmusician]

I agree that you should shield grab when you are in the correct position. I never said that Zelda shouldn't/can't shield grab.

I'm just saying that these said grab chances usually occur due to a mistake from your opponent.

Power shielding the move is also another grab opportunity as you mentioned.

 

[zeldspazz]

I have another question

Off the top of your head, who would be the best secondary for Zelda (dont say Metaknight, I know he covers her worst matchups, but lets go for variety shall we?)

Ive heard Marth and ZSS as being good, is that true?

 

[Darkmusician]

Then you'd probably have to change your question because MK really is the "best" secondary.

I recommend learning all of the S-tiers because it will help you understand the characters better as well as be back ups in a tight spot.

 

[zeldspazz]

Fine, best secondary excluding Metaknight then?

 

[Darkmusician]

I recommend Snake/Wario.

You really should learn how to play MK though even if you never plan on really using him all that much. The more you know about the most used character the better.