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[Elder Sister]

i think u just got critiqued by jigg^^

 

[Kaffei]

Hi, I'm back with more questions. :x
What are some ways that can help me land LKs more often?
In this video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPeP-l3ldJA the Zelda player seems to land them easily.. or was it easier to sweetspot in Melee?
Any help is much appreciated. ^^

 

[SinkingHigher]

More than anything you need to learn the spacing LKs, Kaffei. Simply practicing them on a sand bag will teach you have you need to be.

Apart from that, an LK's hitbox gets stretched when you fastfall, meaning the area that needs to connect with the enemy expands, making it much more likely to land a lightning kick.

There are a few ways to secure a lightning kick.

If you watch some of NinjaLink's videos, you'll see he often locks a short-mid Din into a lightning kick.
On some characters at higher percentages, a dtilt will pop them up into an f-air, which I believe is also guaranteed (again, on some characters).

Being able to read your enemy helps a lot. If you're close by and you think they're about to jump, jump as well (not necessarily first) and when they come into range, LK.

LK is a move based on punishment. You can't combo with it and you can't really combo into it, so your only option is to "trick" your opponent into getting hit, or predicting their approach.

Another thing I find works quite well is when your opponent or the character you're fighting has a hard time getting up from the ledge. If they jump from the ledge you can counter with an f-air and usually KO. If they linger on the edge and you're recovering, you can lightning kick them for a stagespike KO, usually guaranteed.

Kataefi has really good LK's OoS. On characters about Zelda's height or taller, you can guarantee a lightning kick out of powersheild.

Successor_Of_Raphael has good pressuring and stays up close to you when you're recovering from above and LK's once your attack is over or your airdodge is over.

One last thing that for some reason works quite well, is when your opponent is on the inner side of the stage and you're near the ledge, run off the side of it. They'll think you missed a ledgegrab or failed a fox trot or something and almost ALWAYS come after you for a spike. With this, you'll now know where they are going to be and when they're going to be there. (If you know this about your opponent at all times, you'll probably 3 stock them) Anyway, when they come after you, use your second jump to jump back onto the stage and b-air them as they approach (before they make it to the edge.) The hitbox should stretch a bit making it land easy.

The problem with this is that you're on the opposite side of the killing area that they'll be hit towards, so use it around 120% and it should KO them just fine.

 

[Kaffei]

More than anything you need to learn the spacing LKs, Kaffei. Simply practicing them on a sand bag will teach you have you need to be.

Apart from that, an LK's hitbox gets stretched when you fastfall, meaning the area that needs to connect with the enemy expands, making it much more likely to land a lightning kick.

There are a few ways to secure a lightning kick.

If you watch some of NinjaLink's videos, you'll see he often locks a short-mid Din into a lightning kick.
On some characters at higher percentages, a dtilt will pop them up into an f-air, which I believe is also guaranteed (again, on some characters).

Being able to read your enemy helps a lot. If you're close by and you think they're about to jump, jump as well (not necessarily first) and when they come into range, LK.

LK is a move based on punishment. You can't combo with it and you can't really combo into it, so your only option is to "trick" your opponent into getting hit, or predicting their approach.

Another thing I find works quite well is when your opponent or the character you're fighting has a hard time getting up from the ledge. If they jump from the ledge you can counter with an f-air and usually KO. If they linger on the edge and you're recovering, you can lightning kick them for a stagespike KO, usually guaranteed.

Kataefi has really good LK's OoS. On characters about Zelda's height or taller, you can guarantee a lightning kick out of powersheild.

Successor_Of_Raphael has good pressuring and stays up close to you when you're recovering from above and LK's once your attack is over or your airdodge is over.

One last thing that for some reason works quite well, is when your opponent is on the inner side of the stage and you're near the ledge, run off the side of it. They'll think you missed a ledgegrab or failed a fox trot or something and almost ALWAYS come after you for a spike. With this, you'll now know where they are going to be and when they're going to be there. (If you know this about your opponent at all times, you'll probably 3 stock them) Anyway, when they come after you, use your second jump to jump back onto the stage and b-air them as they approach (before they make it to the edge.) The hitbox should stretch a bit making it land easy.

The problem with this is that you're on the opposite side of the killing area that they'll be hit towards, so use it around 120% and it should KO them just fine.

Wow, that was a lot of information! Thanks a bunch.
Could you link me a video of Successor_Of_Raphael? I'd like to see how he does it, if you don't mind.

__

Oh, another thing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xXDhQN-PMI
At around 15 seconds, M2K breaks from a grab instantly. How does he do that?

 

[KayLo!]

Oh, another thing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xXDhQN-PMI
At around 15 seconds, M2K breaks from a grab instantly. How does he do that?

Button/stick mashing. It's how you break out of a grab.... and you break out faster when you have less damage. Since he was at only 11% or so (I think), he broke out pretty fast.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Button/stick mashing. It's how you break out of a grab.... and you break out faster when you have less damage. Since he was at only 11% or so (I think), he broke out pretty fast.

yeah... I know whem my friend plays olimar, he can;t throw be unless I have at least double digit damage because I break out quicker than he can reel me in

 

[GodAtHand]

There is something somewhere about Instant grab releases that happen once in a while. I am not sure of all the details though, maybe someone else knows.

I know I for one have grabbed people on odd terrain and they have instantly been released, not sure if that has anything to do with it though.

 

[MrEh]

Terrain has everything to do with it.

If you grab someone and they're on a higher elevation then you, most of the time they'll break out automatically. iirc

 

[mountain_tiger]

Hey, MrEh. Where have you been lately? The board isn't the same without your humourous pessimism about Zelda.

 

[Brinzy]

Wow, that was a lot of information! Thanks a bunch.
Could you link me a video of Successor_Of_Raphael? I'd like to see how he does it, if you don't mind.

Hah, I had no idea I was being talked about!

Well I don't have any good videos up, but I did find a video that demonstrates it a couple of times...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbzuWn79uGU 0:25 and 2:19 shows how it's mostly a punishing tool. Sometimes you can pressure your opponent when they're off-stage so you can force a certain reaction and leave them open to a kick. Yoshi's pretty good off-stage though, hence why you may have to take an approach like that.

 

[KayLo!]

I know I for one have grabbed people on odd terrain and they have instantly been released, not sure if that has anything to do with it though.

Terrain has everything to do with it.

If you grab someone and they're on a higher elevation then you, most of the time they'll break out automatically. iirc

Happens a lot on transforming stages, like Castle Siege and Delfino.

But the vid Kaffei posted was on Battlefield, and he struggled for a bit before releasing (it wasn't instant). It was just a normal release.

 

[Kaffei]

Hah, I had no idea I was being talked about!

Well I don't have any good videos up, but I did find a video that demonstrates it a couple of times...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbzuWn79uGU 0:25 and 2:19 shows how it's mostly a punishing tool. Sometimes you can pressure your opponent when they're off-stage so you can force a certain reaction and leave them open to a kick. Yoshi's pretty good off-stage though, hence why you may have to take an approach like that.

In that video, NL does dash cancel with shield, right? How does he do it instantly? Like, when I try to do it, I have to run for at least a quarter or less to do it.. -_-

Also, I was playing a friend, & this happened http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V56HZhJb_lw
Why does it do that?

 

[MrEh]

Hey, MrEh. Where have you been lately? The board isn't the same without your humourous pessimism about Zelda.

I was banned for trolling and having a large amount of my posts reported. lol

 

[Ochobobo]

I was banned for trolling and having a large amount of my posts reported. lol

wtf get outta here. Was it the Pit boards that finally did it? lol

 

[MrEh]

wtf get outta here. Was it the Pit boards that finally did it? lol

Nope.

All of my infractions were from the Zelda boards. XD

 

[Ochobobo]

Nope.

All of my infractions were from the Zelda boards. XD

LOL!

MrEh: *doing Khan reenactment* KATAEFI!!!!

lolol

 

[Kaffei]

y no 1 anser my qeesshun?????

 

[Ochobobo]

I've never seen that Pit thing before, lol, that's interesting...

(No idea why it does that)

 

[KayLo!]

In that video, NL does dash cancel with shield, right? How does he do it instantly? Like, when I try to do it, I have to run for at least a quarter or less to do it.. -_-

When does he do it in the vid? Exact time, I mean.

All I saw was him putting up his shield during a run, which is.... really not that hard. x.x I must be confused about what you're asking.

Also, I was playing a friend, & this happened http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V56HZhJb_lw
Why does it do that?

The funny thing is, my friend just showed me a similar glitch last night that happens when DK tries to recover and Mario capes him. It was on Battlefield.... DK was doing his up b, Mario caped him, and DK got stuck on the left ledge just like Zelda did.

My guess is that it's some sort of glitch that happens when recovering against reflective moves at a certain position near the ledge. There's probably a thread or post or something about it somewhere, but it'd take too long to find it.

Just avoid it, lol.

 

[Kaffei]

When does he do it in the vid? Exact time, I mean.

All I saw was him putting up his shield during a run, which is.... really not that hard. x.x I must be confused about what you're asking.



The funny thing is, my friend just showed me a similar glitch last night that happens when DK tries to recover and Mario capes him. It was on Battlefield.... DK was doing his up b, Mario caped him, and DK got stuck on the left ledge just like Zelda did.

My guess is that it's some sort of glitch that happens when recovering against reflective moves at a certain position near the ledge. There's probably a thread or post or something about it somewhere, but it'd take too long to find it.

Just avoid it, lol.

Apparently it's called Shield Cancelling? You dash & then shield to cancel the running animation, but whenever I do it, I always go into the skid animation THEN I shield. If I do it too fast, I do a roll.. How are you supposed to do it?

NL performs it at 0:05, 0:07, 0:37, and other times.

It's easy to perform if I run a fair distance, but I can't do it when I dash once & short, like NL does.

 

[Half-Split Soul]

Also, I was playing a friend, & this happened http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V56HZhJb_lw
Why does it do that?

It's a glitch that Marios found long time ago. If Mario uses cape with perfect timing against an opponent who's sweetspotting the edge they start hanging in the air. Since it can be done with Pit too it's probably caused by the action of character making 180 degrees turn just when they grab the ledge.

 

[Kaffei]

It's a glitch that Marios found long time ago. If Mario uses cape with perfect timing against an opponent who's sweetspotting the edge they start hanging in the air. Since it can be done with Pit too it's probably caused by the action of character making 180 degrees turn just when they grab the ledge.

Oh, I see... weird. o-O

 

[Kataefi]

Your username is unusually similar to mine

That video was so weird!

 

[Kaffei]

Your username is unusually similar to mine

That video was so weird!

LMAO @ The angry thing. & Yeah. Hi :D

So....does anyone...know how to do what NL does. ^

 

[SinkingHigher]

lol poor kaffei.

What you do is foxtrot once (hit forward had to initiate dash animation then release it), and as you approach the ending 10 frames of the animation (the ones where you can buffer) hit R hard so that it click (or whatever you're using for block).

You need to time it right, but most characters do this. Zelda has a longer dash animation than most characters so hers isn't the best. Samus does it quite well.

Basically, hit forward > release > wait for cool-down frames > hit block.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

Nope.

All of my infractions were from the Zelda boards. XD

hey we can't infract our honorary troll lol

LMAO @ The angry thing. & Yeah. Hi :D

So....does anyone...know how to do what NL does. ^

SiHi answers^

 

[Kaffei]

lol poor kaffei.

What you do is foxtrot once (hit forward had to initiate dash animation then release it), and as you approach the ending 10 frames of the animation (the ones where you can buffer) hit R hard so that it click (or whatever you're using for block).

You need to time it right, but most characters do this. Zelda has a longer dash animation than most characters so hers isn't the best. Samus does it quite well.

Basically, hit forward > release > wait for cool-down frames > hit block.

Thanks a lot :D Does it work well with Marth? o_O

 

[Kaffei]

More questions.. -.-'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sZ47BM7aFQ
In that video, they use a lot of powershielding.. How do you use it effectively? & How are you supposed to use it at all? O_o I suck at it.

I apologize if this is kind of off topic..

 

[SinkingHigher]

this is a q and a thread. If its a q or an a it's not off topic.

power shielding is done by blocking in the first few frames (i'd guess about 3 frames) of an attack being in your shield zone. It's significantly easier in brawl.

Use it for two things.

Block fast spam like Links arrows and boomerang or Pits arrows or Peaches turnips. This lets you attack immediately out of the sheild clash animation.

Block incoming attacks (like peach f-air while hovering) and use your new frames as an advantage to lightning kick peach.

Get a Link to play against you and spam arrows, or maybe even falco lasers. Once you know how close a projectile has to be its easy from there. practice makes perfect. There is no secret or method here.

 

[Kaffei]

this is a q and a thread. If its a q or an a it's not off topic.

power shielding is done by blocking in the first few frames (i'd guess about 3 frames) of an attack being in your shield zone. It's significantly easier in brawl.

Use it for two things.

Block fast spam like Links arrows and boomerang or Pits arrows or Peaches turnips. This lets you attack immediately out of the sheild clash animation.

Block incoming attacks (like peach f-air while hovering) and use your new frames as an advantage to lightning kick peach.

Get a Link to play against you and spam arrows, or maybe even falco lasers. Once you know how close a projectile has to be its easy from there. practice makes perfect. There is no secret or method here.

Oh.. ok. I'll practice like that.
But how do they do it fast? What I mean is, they PS something, but their shield goes away JUST like that. Do you just tap the shield

 

[KayLo!]

I think someone corrected me before and said you have 4 frames during which you will perfect shield, not 3.

Kaffei, you just hit the shield button like usual, then let go and input your next action.

The benefit of perfect shielding is that you don't suffer normal shield stun (frames where you'd normally be stuck inside your shield) or normal shield drop frames (the 7 frames it otherwise takes to drop your shield before you can do another action). You also don't suffer shield push, so in the case of moves that would normally push you out of range, you'll be close enough to punish out of a perfect shield.

 

[Kaffei]

I think someone corrected me before and said you have 4 frames during which you will perfect shield, not 3.

Kaffei, you just hit the shield button like usual, then let go and input your next action.

The benefit of perfect shielding is that you don't suffer normal shield stun (frames where you'd normally be stuck inside your shield) or normal shield drop frames (the 7 frames it otherwise takes to drop your shield before you can do another action). You also don't suffer shield push, so in the case of moves that would normally push you out of range, you'll be close enough to punish out of a perfect shield.

Ohh.. Cool. I hope I can do it well

 

[Chis]

So, what are Zelda's bad stages? Because I'm doing a match up write up.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

So, what are Zelda's bad stages? Because I'm doing a match up write up.

a lot of it depends on the matchup.

Japes, for example, is horrible for her against certain people, but against others, very good.

Stages with hard to sweetspot ledges suck for her.

She's not really a water fan, and she doesn't like getting camped easily.

She rather DOES like playforms though, and she LOVES pillars.

 

[zeldspazz]

Im guessing that Lylat Cruise is horrible for her considering the ledges are impossible to sweetspot.

 

[Kataefi]

That's cool chis! I don't think there's a universal stage we all agree on that's good for her. But if Luigi's Mansion is allowed you have to ban that from her.

I think battlefield is her best neutral and one of her best stages overall, yoshi's apparently is her worst neutral but I quite like it. I'm a big fan of stages with lots of platforms and weird layouts - anything that makes kicks OoS easier and Dtilt harder to SDI out of and reduce camping is all good.

I secretly love frigate, castle siege, the pokemon stadiums, japes and green greens. I could go into detail but they're mostly personal preferences.

Lylat is good for me but I don't know if that's actually a good one for zelda - I just know the slants make kicks OoS easier and dtilt locks harder to get out of but makes recovering a little harder.

I really hate pictochat and rainbow cruise! And I hate recovering on halberd and delfino =(

 

[Chis]

Thanks :D, just writing about the Sonic-Zelda match up.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

That's cool chis! I don't think there's a universal stage we all agree on that's good for her. But if Luigi's Mansion is allowed you have to ban that from her.

I think battlefield is her best neutral and one of her best stages overall, yoshi's apparently is her worst neutral but I quite like it. I'm a big fan of stages with lots of platforms and weird layouts - anything that makes kicks OoS easier and Dtilt harder to SDI out of and reduce camping is all good.

I secretly love frigate, castle siege, the pokemon stadiums, japes and green greens. I could go into detail but they're mostly personal preferences.

Lylat is good for me but I don't know if that's actually a good one for zelda - I just know the slants make kicks OoS easier and dtilt locks harder to get out of but makes recovering a little harder.

I really hate pictochat and rainbow cruise! And I hate recovering on halberd and delfino =(

Of those stages, for zelda, I

Like:
Mansion
Battlefield
Yoshi's
Castle Seige
Stadium 1
Green Greens
Pictochat

Dislike:
Stadium 2
frigate
japes
lylat
rainbow cruise
Delfino (love the stage, not for zelda)
halberd


also, planet zebes and norfair BTW. love the former fo zelda, hate the latter.





BTW, Chis, it;s a matchup by matchup basis. The stages that are better for her against sonic aren't necessarily the same as the list lets on.

 

[Kinzer]

Hi there, just happened to realize that our fantastic mod posted here and surprise surprise, it's about what stages Sonic would want to CP Zelda.

I'm just saw some discussion about RC (albeit personal preference but it brings up something else). The stage requires a lot of movement, especially in the air.... and~ I don't know exactly how well Zelda can do outside of hitting with the aerials (though Nair/Nayru's make for some nice lingers I suppose... laggy but better than nothing), but I'd assume Zelda is not the most mobile character in the air... that's nice.

Thank you for the idea, I'm sure it will help me.... eventually... maybe never actually, 'cause Azn doesn't want to use Zelda on me so much as he does G&W, and I bet if I CPed him to Cruise it would only sanctify his choice in CPing... but for die-hards like me, that's some very nice piece of advice.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

. . .Zelda is not the most mobile character in the air... that's nice.

She's comparably more mobile in the air than on the ground . . . what's that tell ya?

oh, and, I wouldn't do RC if I were you. Not because it's going to end up partiularly BAD for you or anything, but the best thing sonic can do against zelda is camp between melee range and safe din's range . . . and camping is not easy on RC.

You just can't use the same advantages there, though you DO gain some new ones.