Zelda Matchup Thread // OUTDATED

[sniperworm]

For some reason, I thought I was Pika for a split second and tried to thunder (once, anyway -- the other times were just mistakes)........... Yeah, I'm.... stupid.

I often sideB with Sheik expecting Din's Fire to come out, lol.

Wouldn't be very happy if I got DQ'd because of it, though.

I'm pretty sure that nobody would go that far (unless you actually fought them with Sheik after accidentally transforming). No matter how extreme the TO is, I think it's more than fair if you just kill yourself that stock and switch back.

 

[Microbe]

nothing's worse than thinking you're still peach and attempting to pull a turnip when you are REALLY jigglypuff.... ouch

Ouch! That could well be worse than my attempt to nayru a charge shot as sheik >_>.

(I've almost done that with Olimar too >_<)

 

[Kataefi]

I will start updating everything tomorrow on this thread. For now, start choosing what the next character will be =D

It's between ganon and samus... take your pick =D

 

[JigglyZelda003]

i vote Samus first then Ganon

 

[Half-Split Soul]

I know some things about both, no matter which we talk first.

 

[Brinzy]

adum basically said all we need to say about Ganon. Don't really see what else there is to discuss with him.

 

[Kataefi]

Samus it is then guys and gals! =D

Samus is hard as hell for me personally =X

 

[Xyro77]

yea i saw the match-up guide. From the zeldas ive played, zelda does NOT have the advantage

 

[sniperworm]

yea i saw the match-up guide. From the zeldas ive played, zelda does NOT have the advantage

I'd like to add that from the Samus I've played, I also feel that Zelda does not have the advantage.

 

[GodAtHand]

I only played one Samus main ever at a tournament, Hayato. I won, But it was very tough.

You have two choices with Din's.
1st - Destroy Samus' projectiles, Din's is large enough to destroy any projectiles that Samus has shot at you.
2nd - Attempt to destroy Samus' projectiles AND damage samus, this can be risky since if you fail you are probably gonna take some damage, but I seemed to have some success with this strategy. This also means that you want to be farther away so you can have a larger Din's hitbox.

Recover mostly by sweetspotting the edge, you don't want to get dair'd by Samus.

Samus seems to have a hard time killing in this matchup. Not so much Zelda who I feel has a hard time dealing damage.

Samus' UpB is good and once you get hit by it I think it is unpunishable.

I would say 55-45 Samus. The projectiles are not too bad, but the stray ones that hit you certainly add up, and Samus can usually keep you at bay with projectiles once you actually have done enough damage to her to kill.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

Zair>Zelda

 

[adumbrodeus]

Zair>Zelda

Pretty much sums up the match-up.

Samus has too many projectiles (in the moar dakka sense, not unique projectiles) for Zelda to deal with, via conventional means such as Nayru's, which means she has to approach to there. From there, Zair gives Samus the safe melee range to finish the job and fully force the approach.


Fortunately, Samus's options aren't anywhere near as tough as Fox's, and Samus has trouble killing (even though Zelda is light).

I'm going with a 60-40.

 

[Xyro77]

i would agree with 60-40

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Samus's zair is pretty much the biggest problem in this matchup. If you can find a reliable way to deal with that, this shouldn't be a bad matchup at all. Samus has a great air-to-ground game... which Zelda's Usmash alone does a huge amount in stopping.

Samus is a rather large target for our more precision based kill moves and is relatively lacking when it comes to finishing moves.

As bad as nayru's is at reflecting, it sends missiles back at double speed and samus's charge shot has quite a bit of cooldown. Samus is one of the few characters we can actually reflect pretty safely.

Seeker missiles and zair are still problems, but otherwise, samus is not bad at all.

That having been said, Zair can be awful for us, but 60:40 gives zair too much credit. IT's a very good move, but it does not make it that bad for us.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

Samus also wins the offstage arrangements

As bad as nayru's is at reflecting, it sends missiles back at double speed and samus's charge shot has quite a bit of cooldown. Samus is one of the few characters we can actually reflect pretty safely.

Seeker missiles and zair are still problems, but otherwise, samus is not bad at all..

thing is you'll be eating seekers and Zair all day till you close in, nayrus is only good for reflecting a charge shot, if samus decides to charge it up at all.

 

[Xyro77]

Zair has transcending priority=it goes though ALL attack. This causes problems for zelda. It can gimp at very low percent. it goes through ANY and all attacks. You cannot beat samus if she keeps you at zair length. whats really cool is we can fire homing missles and while u reflect we can zair you. samus with charge shot.

 

[Brinzy]

I remember saying Samus was at an advantage a while ago and certain idiot Zeldas that I will not name flamed me.

Honestly, the only characters we can reliably beat are bottom tier characters. Everyone else is simply better.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I'm pretty sure it's possible to NOT be stuck at zair length the whole time. Just throwing that out there.

Zelda completely outclasses Samus within melee range. just stay close. Samus is faster than zelda, but she's not a speeding bullet, it's wholly possible to make zoning for samus harder.

Look at our last matchup, fox. It was bad because he could wrack up damage with projectiles, kill us easliy with upsmash and run away really well. Samus is worse at pretty much all of that and is FAR less threatening up close... she basically lives better.... but then.... what?

 

[JigglyZelda003]

I'm pretty sure it's possible to NOT be stuck at zair length the whole time. Just throwing that out there.

no ones saying she can't close in, but Samus can make a really good wall.(like Xyros example)

her melee skills are decent, Dtilt is deceptive.

the difference between Fox and Samus is that she can't do the "try and catch me *****!" runaway shenanigans that Fox can pull, nor have the same KO power like you said, but in exchange she lives longer and the offstage is her domain.

even then since Zeldas not heavy, Samus lacking in KO power isn't an issue.

also a runaway Samus is like a runaway Yoshi.

 

[GodAtHand]

Can't you aim a Din's toward the ground if she is gonna zair, if you can do that consistently she won't want to be trading the 6% or whatever we take to her 15% or so she will take from us.

 

[GodAtHand]

Samus lacking in KO is an issue, she has how many kill moves?

My Zelda was living until about 150 or so against samus and that was with getting by a Fsmash and a Dsmash. Considering I could kill her with a lightning kick at 80. or Dtilt uptilt a little later on.

 

[Xyro77]

the new tier list is out!!!!!!

Meta Knight
Snake
Wario
Falco
Diddy Kong
King Dedede

Marth
Mr. Game & Watch
Pikachu
Olimar
Ice Climbers
R.O.B.
Kirby

Lucario
Zero Suit Samus
Toon Link
Pit
Donkey Kong

Peach
Luigi
Fox
Wolf
Sonic
Sheik

Bowser
Zelda
Pokémon Trainer
Ike

Lucas
Mario
Ness
Yoshi
Samus

Jigglypuff
Captain Falcon
Link
Ganondorf​

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

no ones saying she can't close in, but Samus can make a really good wall.(like Xyros example)

her melee skills are decent, Dtilt is deceptive.

the difference between Fox and Samus is that she can't do the "try and catch me *****!" runaway shenanigans that Fox can pull, nor have the same KO power like you said, but in exchange she lives longer and the offstage is her domain.

even then since Zeldas not heavy, Samus lacking in KO power isn't an issue.

also a runaway Samus is like a runaway Yoshi.

Samus's Dtilt is, indeed, very good. But even it doesn't kill zelda until triple digits (maybe it can kill earlier if completely fresh, not DId and on a stage with a smaller ceiling.) And it's got pretty good range, but it's not exactly speedy. It's certainly lacking compared to what most other characters have as primary kill moves.

Samus is good off the stage... I can't really imagine why Zelda would ever attempt to dogfight there. Generally we're not in such a position that we should be spike material for samus, but if we ever find ourselves in that position.... well... let's just try not to be there.

And samus is heavy compared to fox.... but she's not so meaty that zelda's plethora of kill moves will have trouble taking her out at reasonably low damages if they hit... and samus's a big target.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Look at our last matchup, fox. It was bad because he could wrack up damage with projectiles, kill us easliy with upsmash and run away really well. Samus is worse at pretty much all of that and is FAR less threatening up close... she basically lives better.... but then.... what?

Well, and Samus actually fully forces the approach instead of terminating in a conveniently placed deadzone.

However, Fox is a harder match-up, probably deserves a 65-35, but if nothing else, he's at the higher end of 60-40, whereas Samus is definitely closer to the lower end. Still, she has a clear advantage, Zelda has the tools to deal with her, given either luck or a reasonable skill gap, but all else being equal, Samus definitely soft counters Zelda.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

the new tier list is out!!!!!!

D-Tier:
Zelda

And now victories taste that much sweeter.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

Samus lacking in KO is an issue, she has how many kill moves?

ok, i guess i am overexagerating it not being that big of an issue as it is on heavier people.

Generally we're not in such a position that we should be spike material for samus, but if we ever find ourselves in that position.... well... let's just try not to be there.

even not in spiking range, you can zair during her "sexy poses".

 

[Half-Split Soul]

the new tier list is out!!!!!!

And Zelda is the highest one of my mains. Awesome :bigthumbu

even not in spiking range, you can zair during her "sexy poses".

This is probably the nicest way to say "horrible lag" I´ve ever heard.

But yeah, Zelda´s recovery is slow. It gives Samus many chances to use missiles, Zair and aerials to stop her from coming back. Luckily FW is long though, so we can often avoid spikes simply by recovering from far away.

On stage Samus forces approaches, but I still don´t find her too bad. Missiles arent too hard to shield, powershield or dodge through after some practice, so getting to Zair range isn´t the problem. When in there Zelda doesn´t need to rush things unless she´s behind a stock, so she can wait for a chance to create an opening. It´s not foolproof, but she definitely can get though Samus´ wall.

 

[Darkmusician]

60-40 samus or 55-45 samus. One or the other. You don't mess with Samus on the ledge.

 

[A1lion835]

The kirby boards are discussing zelda! All help with the discussion is appreciated.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=236395&page=25

 

[MrEh]

Still working on this chart, but this is the general gist of it.

 

[Brinzy]

Wow, that ***** beats NOBODY (significant).

Why's Kirby 45:55?

Also, I agree with Peach, though she seems tougher than Marth (who feels more 4/6, but w/e)

 

[MrEh]

Why's Kirby 45:55?

Because Kirby *****.

 

[Brinzy]

What happened to Pit being 90:10? : (

 

[MrEh]

What happened to Pit being 90:10? : (

People would complain too much.

My hatred towards Pit isn't worth all the complaining. lol

 

[Brinzy]

Now, for a random question: do you think she's a DUMB character? Not a sucky character, not a bad character, not a slow character, just a dumb one.

 

[MrEh]

Dumb? Well, I like her. I just think she sucks.

Pit is a dumb character though. Definitely.

 

[Brinzy]

Good. I think as long as we all like her, there's absolutely no problem with her being terrible. (Well, yeah there is, but that's not the point.)


And yes, Pit is ********.

Huh, I guess I am finally seeing things your way.

 

[MrEh]

People think I'm just being a jerk, but I'm just being a realist most of the time. Zelda just sucks, and I'll keep repeating it until this entire board agrees. ^^

 

[Brinzy]

Can we NOT count the random people who think she's amazing?

Wait, are there any "non-randoms" that think she's not bad?

 

[MrEh]

Can we NOT count the random people who think she's amazing?

Wait, are there any "non-randoms" that think she's not bad?

I think nowadays, everyone is starting to see that she's bad. Except random nubs who only use her in friendlies, or haven't used her at all.