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Sad thing is the game breaking glitch will probably be banned if it's good enough to beat MK and co. lol
Then you will repeat this until you die.
Nope. The boards mostly agree with me already. ^^
Then talk to NinjaLink about it. He's the one who came up with the ratios for Luigi and Peach. Not me.
A right stage? Peach does better on nearly every stage. Quite honestly, Peach beats Zelda no matter where you go. The only exception may be Mansion, but that's banned in most places now.
Let's take a look again.
yes... peach does. Hence 60:40. 60:40 is still an advantage. Peach is hard, but 60:40 is hard. She's not a zelda counter, just a bad matchup.
stop trolling. You're not so special that you should be an exception to trolling policies.
but having almost as many bad matchups as good below her would NOT be par for the course.
This is a setup for "Zelda needs to move down", you know.
Peach is worse because she can camp Zelda, bait Zelda, and easily pressure her shield. Her jabs wreck Zelda, and so does her Fair.
You said you didn't agree with the chart, and I made a response explaining Zelda's matchups. That's not trolling, that's just justifying my post. If you think thats trolling, then report my post to Katafei. I've done nothing wrong, and I'm sure most people will agree.
It's character dependent, but the general trend remains. And Zelda does have more advantageous matchups below her the disadvantageous, so I don't see what the issue is. ^^
Pretty much.
peach doesn't camp particularly well, she can do it... but she's not the best at it. It's her fair. That ****ed spaced-fair. that's the hardest thing to deal with against peach. And she can use that spaced fair to bait us. But, other than that, I don't feel like pwach has a whole lot that wrecks Zelda. Now, that fair is awesome in the matchup, but is it 65:35 awesome? Well I don't know about that. I know it's no WORSE than that, but, by the same token, it's no BETTER than 60:40. I used to think peach was a 70:30 matchup ut eventually I got used to it and realized it wasn't quite so bad. I still never gave into the mentality Zelda had anything that could be misconstrued as an advantage, but I realized it wasn't as bad as I thought. it came down to realizing that you need to get around a few moves. Zelda's not the best t finding work-arounds, but she can do it well enough to mediate the damage of the matchup to being a very winnable one.
I'm quite sure I knew what the chart said and didn't need it reposted.... I commented ON the chart.
having 5 advantaged matchups and 3 disadvantaged matchups below you along with 3 nuetrals is barely better than going even with everything below you.
She's not the best at camping, but Zelda is very susceptible to camping in general. Since she's slow, ground bound, and has no defense against projectiles..
It's not just that. Jabs wreck Zelda up close.
I didn't post the chart again for you. I posted the chart again because I didn't want to force people to scroll back a page to see it. We've posted posted enough that the chart is now a page behind. It's easier for me to explain the chart when it's in front of the reader's faces. Since my post was referencing the chart in question, I don't see anything wrong with me posting it again.
And that's why Zelda needs to drop. SamuraiPanda said that Zelda should be at the top of E tier, and I agree. If Zelda was at the top of E tier, she she would have twice as many advantageous matchups as disadvantageous ones. Seems more accurate. ^^
Luigi: Usmash
perhaps, but that makes luigi's defensive game against us not quite as good. Once he goes agressive, we do not have a lot to stop the pressure.
smart toonies don't just spam. They zone zone zone like it's their job. Sure we can get past it, but we'll take damage in the process. and Usmash kills us early if we make any punishable mistake.
Weren't we just discussing Samus? lol
Secretly, they kind of are. (Reflected Aura Spheres beat both of them, though.) You don't even see the shot, you just see Zelda getting paralyzed for a moment, then flying off the top of the screen. @.@ Super DI ftw, lol.
I was about to point this out. MrEh contradicts himself in the same post when he goes on and on about how well Peach camps Zelda and how susceptible she is to camping and then later on in the post he comments that Toonies camping isn't that "bad" if you learn to just shield. Toon Link's camp game is far better than Peach's........I thought this was common knowledge.
95% of Pikachu players don't have good Zelda experience..... a lot of them think/thought Din's was hard to get around before I started playing a number of them on a regular basis.
Wut. With all due respect to Hedgedawg, he's a casual player with limited tournament experience, last time I checked. Most of what he says is either theorycrafting, based on casual play, or just plain wrong. Not saying he shouldn't post his opinion, but it's natural that tournament Zeldas who place well on a consistent basis will have their opinions listened to slightly more if there's a disagreement.
I think it's even......not in Zelda's favor or anything; both of these characters have a fair amount of advantages on the other.95% of Pikachu players don't have good Zelda experience..... a lot of them think/thought Din's was hard to get around before I started playing a number of them on a regular basis.
Also, after talking to several of them recently about this matchup, I can tell you straight up that a number of them have changed their opinion on it to Pika's favor. His metagame has advanced a fair amount.
Pikachu is far too fast for Zelda despite the fact that she outranges him. If you can predict what Pika's going to do, you can effectively shut down his approaches, but any mistake you make can be punished with pretty much anything from his moveset -- which strings together very nicely, I might add.
He also has an extremely easy time getting Zelda into the air, and have I mentioned yet that he edgeguards her like a beast?
Long-range, Zelda can outcamp the chu, but if he moves to a comfy mid-range game, your only options are to eat tjolts or avoid them in a way that sets you up for a number of things, usually grab or fair (both of which lead to aerial combos at low-mid percents).
It's a matchup that looks to be in Zelda's favor on paper, and you'll probably win the first few matches while the Pika player figures it out...... but trust me, after playing this matchup from both sides: once Pika figures out how Zelda works, it's definitely not in Zelda's favor.
Wut. With all due respect to Hedgedawg, he's a casual player with limited tournament experience, last time I checked. Most of what he says is either theorycrafting, based on casual play, or just plain wrong. Not saying he shouldn't post his opinion, but it's natural that tournament Zeldas who place well on a consistent basis will have their opinions listened to slightly more if there's a disagreement.
And don't go into Hawaii-bashing, please. They may not travel OOS often, but I've seen their vids, and there's absolutely no way you can say they don't have talent compared to other states.
As for the trolling: MrEh advertises himself as a troll, but he also posts very legit information in nearly all of his posts. Despite the fact that he doesn't play Zelda, he's seen what she can do, and he's pretty **** good at analyzing her as a character. Just because he doesn't agree with your opinion doesn't give you the right to question his. We're all allowed to post here.
EDIT: @MrEh: Btw, that chart design is amazing. I like.
He has a vast range advantage on her, his jab wrecks her OoS and in General, and his KO power is horrible for Zelda. Even his fsmash becomes somewhat viable in this matchup becuse of her recovery......and that's scary.
Pika:
I'll continue to contribute, but don't think I'm right just because I agree with you. KayLo! had me pegged. I'm semi-casual. I have 3 jobs, a boyfriend and I'm a full time student. Plus I'm in Ohio... try fining time to attend many tourneys with those restrictions.
If you dtilt a tjolt, you're going to eat a ff fair > utilt/grab combo. That is a fact. The best option is to just shield it, wait out the fair, then shieldgrab; however, good Pikas will land the fair behind you unless they eff up their spacing, at which point you need to decide on your best OOS option.
Sadly, even Zelda's lowest cooldown moves still leave more than enough time for Pika to dash-cancel into a grab or usmash, or he can dtilt OOS and more often than not set you up for a tech chase unless you jump and put yourself above him, which is never a good thing.
She does. In particular, it's hard to land a KO on Zelda if she's very careful. However, while one mistake from Pikachu means one hit (because Zelda has very few followups), one mistake from Zelda means she'll get combo'd or juggled or tossed off-stage with bthrow, at which point he can edgeguard her.
You've done so in other threads, not this one.
False, but I went over the list a bit above, so I won't go through it again. Pika can do a lot to Zelda.... she has an answer to almost everything he can do, but you would have to be psychic to pull that kind of prediction off. Eventually, your mistakes will turn the tide in his favor if he takes advantage of them.
Wut. Zelda isn't hard to combo, lol, her light weight and floatiness just mean that combos stop working at an earlier percentage.
Fellow Smasher with a life! I approve.
Thanks. I'm still working on it. ^^
