Zelda Matchup Thread // OUTDATED

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Fthrow > usmash still works right off the bat.

I've always escaped that with a buffered nayru's... Iunno if it's possible for pikachu to outspeed that, but I've never had it be a problem. Now, he's it me if I don't use nayru's, but everytime I've tried it's worked so far. I just don't do it all the time because, if it starts being predicted, I'll just get sheildgrabbed and the grabbing will keep going.

Fellow Smasher with a life! I approve.

I try.

 

[KayLo!]

I've always escaped that with a buffered nayru's... Iunno if it's possible for pikachu to outspeed that, but I've never had it be a problem. Now, he's it me if I don't use nayru's, but everytime I've tried it's worked so far. I just don't do it all the time because, if it starts being predicted, I'll just get sheildgrabbed and the grabbing will keep going.

When I said "right off the bat," my bad for not being clear: I meant it works at ~0%. It's one of the most common combos Pikas will start off with, because with minimal damage, the usmash is guaranteed as long as the dash is buffered. You can't Naryu's out of it.

At higher percentages, fthrow > usmash probably won't be used unless Pika's tech chasing you and predicted a roll.

 

[MrEh]

And since Zelda's roll is pretty decent, chances are he won't be able to tech chase very effectively with a Usmash.

Still, it's not like Pikachu needs anything else on Zelda. He already beats her pretty soundly.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Peach is worse because she can camp Zelda, bait Zelda, and easily pressure her shield. Her jabs wreck Zelda, and so does her Fair.

Dude, have you ever seen a Good Peach vs a good Zelda?

Her camping is not all that first off since Peach has to worry about dins fire and shielding it while getting turnips The camping won't really go anywhere or do much justice.

 

[MrEh]

Dude, have you ever seen a Good Peach vs a good Zelda?

I have no idea what a good Zelda looks like. I've never played a competent Zelda in my entire life.

Her camping is not all that first off since Peach has to worry about dins fire and shielding it while getting turnips The camping won't really go anywhere or do much justice.

I'm not talking about long range camping. I'm talking about camping within the range where Zelda wouldn't be using Din's. At that range, turnips force an approach. And that's probably one of the worst things you can do to Zelda.

 

[Brinzy]

Din's fire gets canceled out by basically everything Peach has. She can easily screw with Zelda because it's almost impossible to catch turnips with jab. Zelda has to catch them going airborne, or she can just shield. Regardless, they do force an approach. Peach's float also completely screws with Zelda's spacing. It's not anywhere near an even match-up.

 

[-Mars-]

Yea Dark Peach has no clue what he's talking about. I mean it isn't like he is one of the better Peach players or anything.....

 

[Dark.Pch]

If Peach is within her range trying to get a turnip that is asking for it.

If Peach toss a turnip, who says she has to go and approach her. Thats how you get hit with it.

The only thing that sucks is reflecting the turnips. Not mush distance.

Ether way Zelda can dins fire while I try getting a turnip and Peach will ether shield or get hit. I can glide toss out of it but only if I power shield the blast. if I don't, the hitstun will keep me in place for a while and they by the time I can glide toss, I would eat her relfecter attack or a Jab. That's what I do as Zelda. Just jab a glide toss in cases like this. Her camping is not all that on Zelda.

 

[Brinzy]

Because Din's Fire does *anything* to Peach besides force her to stop floating from far away and be a surprise attack every now and then.

Close range, you're not using it. Mid-close, you can easily lead yourself open to a glide toss, or Peach can be completely unaffected. Far off, nobody's getting hit by it.

Sorry, but I have a feeling I know what screws the hell out of Zelda's spacing, and Peach is one of those things.


EDIT: If you shield a Din's, you are not required to punish it immediately. You have a turnip in your hand. You can just stay right out of Zelda's attacking distance, and you are in a great position. Din's doesn't do much of anything.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

peach's have nair, but, honestly, their airdodge sucks so bad you can ACTUALLY din's them in the air if they try to use airdodge instead.

 

[Brinzy]

peach's have nair, but, honestly, their airdodge sucks so bad you can ACTUALLY din's them in the air if they try to use airdodge instead.

That's for far away. You don't think it's gonna mean anything up close, right? It has a relatively small hitbox... so small you can still miss Peach if she half-***** the airdodge timing. Either way, you're right - she can nair it.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Because Din's Fire does *anything* to Peach besides force her to stop floating from far away and be a surprise attack every now and then.

Close range, you're not using it. Mid-close, you can easily lead yourself open to a glide toss, or Peach can be completely unaffected. Far off, nobody's getting hit by it.

Sorry, but I have a feeling I know what screws the hell out of Zelda's spacing, and Peach is one of those things.


EDIT: If you shield a Din's, you are not required to punish it immediately. You have a turnip in your hand. You can just stay right out of Zelda's attacking distance, and you are in a great position. Din's doesn't do much of anything.

I don't get the first sentence.

Mid to close range I Peach can glide to Zelda. When I am Zelda Vs Peach and she does this I just Jab. It can stop the turnip and Hit Peach if he gets close enough.

And I would say I would know What I can do to my enemy and what I can't do as my main.

And the point is. Peach's Camping on Zelda sucks. It really does not do much.

 

[MrEh]

And the point is. Peach's Camping on Zelda sucks. It really does not do much.

It forces an approach. This is important, since Zelda has no approach.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

yes well, peach has to PLUCK turnips. she can only do so much to camp when her projectile requires that.

 

[Kataefi]

Successor peach's fair hits on frame 16. It's pretty slow in this respect. If she's about to aim it on your shield a very good trick is to reverse stutter step din's so that it hits her as she lands unless she autocancels to shield. If she retaliates to jab or attempts to a throw a turnip you get hit but at least hit her back with more damage.

Also, if you're wise with din's you can hit her out of all her aerials. Angle din's slightly to get her to attack prematurely. Din's outprioritises all her aerials except fair and the strong part of nair. You need to hit din's before her fair strikes, never after.

Don't forget, peach's fair gets +2 frame shield advantage only when fresh and under frame perfect conditions. When it stales, advantages start to diminish iirc.

Peach is a tricky matchup for Zelda imo. You need to play very patiently. If you see her pluck a turnip, run up and dtilt her shield if you can. At close ducking distance the turnip goes over her head and you get free shield pressure. Turnips are also very easy to powershield. Never reflect them >.>

Never attack her whilst holding a turnip. Bait her into throwing it at you. OoS turnips are amazing against Zelda and cover range.

 

[sniperworm]

I thought we were discussing Samus...

Pika can outcamp Zelda except for long range.
Pika can edgeguard Zelda easily.
Pika has a better combo game.
Pika can punish Zelda more effectively than she can punish him.
Pika is faster.
Pika can get her in the air above him pretty easily and keep her there.
Pika can fairly easily SDI out of usmash/fsmash with practice.
Pika is cuter.

This is the most important advantage as far as I'm concerned because there's no way to work around it

peach's have nair, but, honestly, their airdodge sucks so bad you can ACTUALLY din's them in the air if they try to use airdodge instead.

Peach's airdodge is really bad. Anyway, I know a Peach that uses Toad when you try use Din's on him. Any thoughts on this (Toad's spores have surprising range and can actually hit you if you use Din's from a close-ish distance, lol)?

 

[Dark.Pch]

It forces an approach. This is important, since Zelda has no approach.

If I wanna Force Zelda to approach all I have to do is hold a turnip. I don't have to camp.

 

[Brinzy]

Ok, so you play Peach and believe that her camping sucks against Zelda.

I play Zelda, and I believe that *anyone* with a decent projectile right outside of her range can very easily force an approach from Zelda, and the moment she approaches, she is placed into a disadvantageous position.

As for Zelda's jab... throw the turnip at her lower body and Jab isn't doing anything. Peach really does not even have to glide toss in this match-up. Zelda has no good answer to a turnip that's tossed at her wisely. All she can do is shield it. If you're floating, this means you can follow up with an aerial. If you auto-cancel it, you can jab her if she tries something OoS, or you can just roll away.

Honestly, Zelda is so easy to take advantage of it isn't funny.

EDIT: Kat, while I appreciate the advice, I don't see how you can, on reaction, move back far enough to not get hit by a turnip and then Din's Peach in whatever lag she's in.

Also, Dark Pch., according to what you just posted above me, you agree with my sentiment about how Peach can force Zelda to approach. That is *exactly* what I've been talking about the whole time. I don't know why you said I said Peach could camp Zelda, at all.

 

[Kataefi]

Peach's airdodge and her slower airspeed and smaller jumps allow Zelda to chase her well with uairs. There's nothing Peach can do about the uair if you space it right. Everytime you get a usmash, uthrow or sweetspot dash attack, I like to immediately chase with uairs at killing percents =D

 

[MrEh]

If I wanna Force Zelda to approach all I have to do is hold a turnip. I don't have to camp.

Then there you go.

You win already.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Peach's airdodge and her slower airspeed and smaller jumps allow Zelda to chase her well with uairs. There's nothing Peach can do about the uair if you space it right. Everytime you get a usmash, uthrow or sweetspot dash attack, I like to immediately chase with uairs at killing percents =D

that can't be really high... I mean, Uair's gotta kill pretty early.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Ok, so you play Peach and believe that her camping sucks against Zelda.

I play Zelda, and I believe that *anyone* with a decent projectile right outside of her range can very easily force an approach from Zelda, and the moment she approaches, she is placed into a disadvantageous position.

As for Zelda's jab... throw the turnip at her lower body and Jab isn't doing anything. Peach really does not even have to glide toss in this match-up. Zelda has no good answer to a turnip that's tossed at her wisely. All she can do is shield it. If you're floating, this means you can follow up with an aerial. If you auto-cancel it, you can jab her if she tries something OoS, or you can just roll away.

Honestly, Zelda is so easy to take advantage of it isn't funny.

Ok you are not getting this at all, i'll say this again.

Peach camping does not lead to anything good here or does much justice in this match. You get that? That is what I am talking about.

Also for Peachs Floating. Zelda Nair can stop all of her air assults. I play a good Female Zelda Player. it was my friends girlfriend. She was impressive. She would time and Space nairs so I could not dish my floating assults. So most of the time I had to bait or short hop my air attacks with spacing. From playing her, I learning Floating at Zelda is not all that, and how one move pwns her floating. She just timed and spaced that move and shot me down easy. And I was like "Holy ****"

 

[MrEh]

Peach camping does not lead to anything good here or does much justice in this match. You get that? That is what I am talking about.

It forces an approach. Which sucks for Zelda.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Zelda Does not have to approach Peach when she is camping.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Ok you are not getting this at all, i'll say this again.

Peach camping does not lead to anything good here or does much justice in this match. You get that? That is what I am talking about.

Also for Peachs Floating. Zelda Nair can stop all of her air assults. I play a good Female Zelda Player. it was my friends girlfriend. She was impressive. She would time and Space nairs so I could not dish my floating assults. So most of the time I had to bait or short hop my air attacks with spacing. From playing her, I learning Floating at Zelda is not all that, and how one move pwns her floating. She just timed and spaced that move and shot me down easy. And I was like "Holy ****"

OMG... you mean we don't just sit there and smash? wow. we DO have to play differently against peach.
All joking aside. It's true. Zelda has to play differently against peach. And she can do that... you just have to be willing to.

 

[Brinzy]

Ok you are not getting this at all, i'll say this agaih.

Peach camping-

Has absolutely nothing to do with what I'm talking about.

Also for Peachs Floating. Zelda Nair can stop all of her air assults. I play a good Female Zelda Player. it was my friends girlfriend. She was impressive. She would time and Space nairs so I could not dish my floating assults. So most of the time I had to bait or short hop my air attacks with spacing. From playing her, I learning Floating at Zelda is not all that, and how one move pwns her floating. She just timed and spaced that move and shot me down easy. And I was like "Holy ****"

Then bait the freakin' nair and punish. Trade hits with fair. Get out of the way of it. Maybe it's troublesome when they do it at first, but at this point in time, I don't see why it's seriously hampering you. You can float at whatever height you choose, you can trade/beat it with good spacing, etc. I'm not saying you should never get hit by it, but there's no way it can shut down anyone's aerial prowess but another Zelda's and maybe some large characters that don't have the time to get away from it.

 

[sniperworm]

Ok you are not getting this at all, i'll say this again.

Peach camping does not lead to anything good here or does much justice in this match. You get that? That is what I am talking about.

Also for Peachs Floating. Zelda Nair can stop all of her air assults. I play a good Female Zelda Player. it was my friends girlfriend. She was impressive. She would time and Space nairs so I could not dish my floating assults. So most of the time I had to bait or short hop my air attacks with spacing. From playing her, I learning Floating at Zelda is not all that, and how one move pwns her floating. She just timed and spaced that move and shot me down easy. And I was like "Holy ****"

Really, Zelda's Nair beats Peach's Fair? I assume that means you got hit before the Fair came out right (or does it somehow magically beat it out)?

 

[Brinzy]

Really, Zelda's Nair beats Peach's Fair? I assume that means you got hit before the Fair came out right (or does it somehow magically beat it out)?

It beats it out if Peach royally screws up the spacing.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Then bait the freakin' nair and punish. Trade hits with fair. Get out of the way of it. Maybe it's troublesome when they do it at first, but at this point in time, I don't see why it's seriously hampering you. You can float at whatever height you choose, you can trade/beat it with good spacing, etc. I'm not saying you should never get hit by it, but there's no way it can shut down anyone's aerial prowess but another Zelda's and maybe some large characters that don't have the time to get away from it.

See what I covered in red? Look in my post and find something similar to that.


Peach's Floating is sloww and you can do quick follow ups better than if you was to short hop your air attacks. Zelda Nair use correctly can Shout down her FLOATINF. F-L-O-A-T-I-N-G. Spaced and timed Nairs are not easy to just bait and deal with.

Thats why as I said before I have to bluff Zelda. or space my moves to deal with it. Which is also not easy cause her Nair has some wierd priority on my moves that it can beat my air attacks as I said before. if you think I am full of it with my Main. Have a good Zelda time Nairs and you float and try to beat that move so easy, then come back to me for a talk.

Nair is a good move on Peach.

Really, Zelda's Nair beats Peach's Fair? I assume that means you got hit before the Fair came out right (or does it somehow magically beat it out)?

Yea it can.

 

[sniperworm]

Yea it can.

What part of the Nair beats Peach's Fair? Was Zelda below or on the side of Peach?

 

[Brinzy]

Could you please quit with the "my main" crap? I'm not trying to tell you how to play your character. I'm trying to tell you that you can take advantage of Zelda easily.

Anyway, you said it yourself. "I have to bluff Zelda. or space my moves to deal with it." Space your moves and it isn't much of a problem anymore. She is very easily telegraphed in the air. If you're trying to bait her, use turnips and it becomes even easier.

Fine by me if you want to swear by Zelda's nair being a good move against Peach (note how I never denied that it wasn't - just that it isn't as good as you're making it sound). Doesn't really mean **** to me, because Peach still has a sizable advantage, and nair only gives Zelda a chance at life.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

it's hardly that bad. you make it sound like peach is a zelda slayer.

 

[Brinzy]

If only because people think Zelda can wreck anything Peach does. And 35:65 is close enough to be a sizable advantage to me. Let the slaying begin, lest the Zelda overcome the weaknesses she has somehow.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

If only because people think Zelda can wreck anything Peach does. And 35:65 is close enough to be a sizable advantage to me. Let the slaying begin, lest the Zelda overcome the weaknesses she has somehow.

60:40 Peach's advantage does not suggest zelda can wreck everything peach does. It just suggests that Peach doesn't get a freee win

 

[Brinzy]

Alright, whatever you guys say.

 

[MrEh]

NL was the one who came up with the 35-65 ratio.

Just throwing that out there.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

NL was the one who came up with the 35-65 ratio.

Just throwing that out there.

Oh okay. then it's 65:35

 

[Dark.Pch]

Could you please quit with the "my main" crap? I'm not trying to tell you how to play your character. I'm trying to tell you that you can take advantage of Zelda easily.

Anyway, you said it yourself. "I have to bluff Zelda. or space my moves to deal with it." Space your moves and it isn't much of a problem anymore. She is very easily telegraphed in the air. If you're trying to bait her, use turnips and it becomes even easier.

Fine by me if you want to swear by Zelda's nair being a good move against Peach (note how I never denied that it wasn't - just that it isn't as good as you're making it sound). Doesn't really mean **** to me, because Peach still has a sizable advantage, and nair only gives Zelda a chance at life.

You started with the "main crap so please don't give me this and stop being so touching, geez, simple debate, relax.

Also I find it funny just Cause NinjaLink says that ration, it is so true then to you. if he said the match of Meta and Zelda was in her favor, you ride that horse too? Peach Vs Zelda is not 36:65 I don't care how good he is or how many suck up to him as a god. I come hear giving you the real deal here. The match up is not for you, but it is not no 35:65.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

wow i came late for the princess battle, *was convinced to post*

 

[Brinzy]

See your signature? I think it's funny how you get mad at people for that while you're assuming something about me. Aren't we cute?


And no, Ninjalink didn't influence my opinion. The myriad of Peach players soundly beating me did. Don't make up bull****.