Zelda Matchup Thread // OUTDATED

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Uh... back to Yoshi discussion, please? ._.

anything you feel we need to cover?

 

[sniperworm]

They don't clank.... as far as I know, they always trade or beat/get beaten entirely, but like Kataefi said, you'll be dealing like.... 1% if it trades hits. Or however much damage/knockback the first hit of fsmash does.

This is what I believe as well, but NinjaLink mentioned a change in priority with move decay, so I assumed that statement meant that her moves change from transcendant priority (can't clank) to normal priority at some point.

Uh... back to Yoshi discussion, please? ._.

Okay, I've gots me a question then. Does Yoshi have any guaranteed followups against Zelda for that false egg lay thing that he can do (hitting with the tip of the neutral B so that the opponent doesn't actually get turned into an egg)?

 

[MrEh]

This is what I believe as well, but NinjaLink mentioned a change in priority with move decay, so I assumed that statement meant that her moves change from transcendant priority (can't clank) to normal priority at some point.

All of Zelda's disjointed moves have multiple hits, so even if they did lose the transcendant priority, it would still lose to everything I think. I think priority is based off how much damage a move does. Because when I fsmash Ike with Bowser, Ike's jab will cancel out the weaker hit of the Fsmash, but not the strong one. There has to be a formula for it. XD

Invincibility on her toe during dsmash? That's so weird, lol.

Other characters have invincibility in various attacks. When Yoshi does his Usmash, his head is invincible. lol

 

[NinjaLink]

damage =/= priority.

things has clashed with GWs 9 hammer........yea.....

 

[MrEh]

things has clashed with GWs 9 hammer........yea.....

That attack muse have been serious business.

 

[Poltergust]

Okay, I've gots me a question then. Does Yoshi have any guaranteed followups against Zelda for that false egg lay thing that he can do (hitting with the tip of the neutral B so that the opponent doesn't actually get turned into an egg)?

That technique is so hard to pull off that it is not even applicable. =/

But to answer you question, the only guaranteed follow-up is a foot-stool if you are both in the air, I believe.

 

[Villi]

If an attack does within 9 damage of a move it collides with, both attacks will be neutralized. Zelda's dtilt does 7 damage, so it will neutralize any grounded normal hitbox that does 16 damage or less. If Zelda's dtilt collides with a normal hitbox that does 17 or more damage, it'll be outprioritized. I don't know if decay is a factor.

Special hitboxes have different priority that isn't necessarily based on damage I think, but I don't really know anything about it. Zelda's Din's and Samus' Charge shot follow the <10 rule, though.

 

[bigman40]

If an attack does within 9 damage of a move it collides with, both attacks will be neutralized. Zelda's dtilt does 7 damage, so it will neutralize any grounded normal hitbox that does 16 damage or less. If Zelda's dtilt collides with a normal hitbox that does 17 or more damage, it'll be outprioritized. I don't know if decay is a factor.

Special hitboxes have different priority that isn't necessarily based on damage I think, but I don't really know anything about it. Zelda's Din's and Samus' Charge shot follow the <10 rule, though.

Is this applied for all grounded attacks? (not including MK cause I know his priority in his sword is different)

 

[Villi]

Yeah, anything that doesn't transcend priority. The last hit of Zelda's up smash (yes, I'm sure), dash attack (actually, I'm not sure of this one -- it's traded a lot for me), and dtilt are the only things I can name off the top of my head. All of Yoshi's grounded A moves are subject to this. His up smash/fsmash do a lot of damage iirc, though.

 

[Brinzy]

... and if anyone was randomly thinking, Zelda's dair is the best move to use if you want to clank with something like Pit's neutral B, simply because it's jointed and stays out the longest. I believe that, up close, Din's and her aerials do clank.

Anyway, how about a little frame data from the Yoshi's? What are your quickest options up close?

 

[Poltergust]

Quickest would be jab (3 frames), f-tilt (6 frames), d-smash (6 frames), u-tilt (7 frames), Yoshi Bomb (7 frames), and d-tilt (8 frames). Yoshi would really only be able to reliably jab, though. He doesn't want to get punished by Zelda up close since she dominates him in ground to ground combat. =/

 

[Brinzy]

Frame 3 jab beats out everything Zelda has, and I trust Yoshi loves his Jab, so definitely go with Jabs. Something like a Jab -> D-smash/ftilt/whatever should be good for building damage off of Zelda.

You would know better than I about Zelda's ground game, but he definitely has some decent speed on him. Yoshi also leans back with Fsmash, right? If you can predict a dtilt or Dsmash, use it and punish hard.

That's all I can really suggest for ground to ground...

 

[MrEh]

Yoshi also leans back with Fsmash, right? If you can predict a dtilt or Dsmash, use it and punish hard.

It's like a far ****tier version of Bowser's fsmash.

The drawback is noticeable, but it's not as easy to use it to counter Zelda then it is with Bowser.

It's possible though.

 

[bigman40]

If we choose to tilt and you spotdodge it, Jabs will hit you if you try to counter. I've had many people try to dodge this and fail. It's probably one of our more safer options right after jabs (cause you can shield jabs then punish as long as you're not slow).

 

[Villi]

How'd I forget Zelda's dsmash. -_-

 

[bigman40]

How'd I forget Zelda's dsmash. -_-

Btw, thx for the information Villi. I just learned something new about priority

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

damage =/= priority.

things has clashed with GWs 9 hammer........yea.....

I'm pretty sure I've clanked with game and watches hammer with JABS.

also, zelda's magical sparklies ignore priority rules... they cannot be clanked with and they can't clank with things.

 

[Villi]

Btw, thx for the information Villi. I just learned something new about priority

np man.




The last hit of Zelda's up smash is both magical/sparkly and an exception to the clanking rule.

 

[NinjaLink]

Yoshis fsmash, upsmash and dash attack has invincy frames.

 

[MrEh]

Yoshis fsmash, upsmash and dash attack has invincy frames.

All around Yoshi's head right?

 

[NinjaLink]

yea. Same in melee. Which is why u ALWAYS GET HIT BY IT LMAO

to yoshis players, all those moves ***** mk lol

 

[VietGeek]

I do not know if this would interest anyone...but who you consider rediscussing the Zelda vs Toon Link match-up with the shota fellow TL players?

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=185397

Because that would be awesome. Thanks in advance everyone.

 

[demonictoonlink]

HAI GUYZ!!! I'm from the TL boards!

K, so... I personally believe the matchup to be 50-50. TL out-spams Zelda, but not by much. DF makes it really hard for us. Zelda kills us insanely early. Her U-Smash, F-smash, and U-air **** us. The only thing you need to watch out for is our Zair. It outspaces you and sets us up for combos.

EDIT: Was on the wrong page... Sorry...

 

[goodkid]

Yoshi vs Zelda is weird, Yoshi has some fast moves(Jab,tilts,aerials) & don't forget pivot grab. This match is actually kind of hard. Fair OOS can hit Yoshi's head though.

 

[Darkmusician]

Yoshi is pretty easy to fight with Zelda.

-Avoid the eggs or burn them
-Don't get close to him and he can't kill you
-His recovery is highly predictable
-Don't DI/follow into him all the time if you don't like getting pivot grabbed
-Balance your move usage to save some fresh kill shots

Play a yoshi main for a few weeks to a month and the rest kinda takes care of itself.

 

[Poltergust]

-Avoid the eggs or burn them

Zelda is better off reflecting them. Why would you try to use Din's Fire on the eggs when it comes out so slowly?

-Don't get close to him and he can't kill you

True, but the same thing also goes for Zelda.

-His recovery is highly predictable

So very wrong. Yoshi has one of the most flexible recoveries in the game. Also, Zelda can't edge-guard Yoshi too well other than using Din's Fire. Zelda is what we call a character with predictable recovery, not Yoshi.

-Don't DI/follow into him all the time if you don't like getting pivot grabbed
-Balance your move usage to save some fresh kill shots

These two are true. Zelda shouldn't be following Yoshi anyways.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Zelda is better off reflecting them. Why would you try to use Din's Fire on the eggs when it comes out so slowly?

'cause din's is faster than nayru's and works just as well

True, but the same thing also goes for Zelda.

but not to the same extent.. Zelda does have longer useable range.

So very wrong. Yoshi has one of the most flexible recoveries in the game. Also, Zelda can't edge-guard Yoshi too well other than using Din's Fire. Zelda is what we call a character with predictable recovery, not Yoshi.

how is turning invisible with 16 different possible exit locations more predictable?

 

[powuh_of_PIE]

how is turning invisible with 16 different possible exit locations more predictable?

That is a bit of an exaggeration. When have you ever had all 16 directions as viable options? But FW is somewhat tricky to predict as we usually have 2 or 3 choices on where to go and when to go there.

EDIT: Haha, I beat MrEh to it ^ ^ the world must be ending

 

[MrEh]

how is turning invisible with 16 different possible exit locations more predictable?

Because when you're recovering, 14 of those locations usually leads to you dying.

 

[-Tempest-]

All you have to do is footstool Yoshi out of his second jump, though. I'm thinking Zelda's recovery is more flexible.

 

[Darkmusician]

Zelda is better off reflecting them. Why would you try to use Din's Fire on the eggs when it comes out so slowly?



True, but the same thing also goes for Zelda.



So very wrong. Yoshi has one of the most flexible recoveries in the game. Also, Zelda can't edge-guard Yoshi too well other than using Din's Fire. Zelda is what we call a character with predictable recovery, not Yoshi.



These two are true. Zelda shouldn't be following Yoshi anyways.

Trust me I know how to fight Yoshi's. I wouldn't say anything otherwise.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Because when you're recovering, 14 of those locations usually leads to you dying.

14 could be an exaggeration. I normally have at least 3 as possibilities... I try to leave as many as possible open.

 

[Dark.Pch]

I fought a yoshi today. Match was hard. But I am not use to Yoshi. I won the match though. It was close. I'll upload the video when I can.

To me it is kinda hard to arppoach Yoshi or runs him. For me to win I usually had to let Yoshi throw the first punch or bait him. And I find it hard to hit him with Dtilts.

 

[Snakeee]

It's not really good to reflect Yoshi's eggs too much because the angle they get sent back usually doesn't hit him, and it can leave you open

 

[MrEh]

That's why DM said to blow them up. lol

 

[Half-Split Soul]

All you have to do is footstool Yoshi out of his second jump, though. I'm thinking Zelda's recovery is more flexible.

Most of the time that´s practically impossible to pull of since any good Yoshi uses airdodge or aerial to protect himself from dangers when recovering or mixes it up with eggtoss. He´s fairly easy to punish from the stage though.

 

[Poltergust]

Wouldn't power-shielding be better than using Din's Fire to destroy the eggs? Din's Fire seems too impractical to use just to counter the eggs. You should power-shield and then use Din's Fire to hit Yoshi.

Also, to what Tempest said, no good Yoshi is ever going to get foot-stooled, let alone by someone as floaty as Zelda. -_-

Oh, Dark.Pch? I didn't know you also played as Zelda. =O

 

[Dark.Pch]

I'm using here to help with her tournament rankings. They Need to be boosted up.

 

[bigman40]

You should help yoshi's

 

[Dark.Pch]

Haha ha, Sorry, I can't play no other character in this game but Peach and a lil of Zelda.