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Zelda Matchup Thread // OUTDATED

Canvasofgrey

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I don't think Zelda needs to compete with Yoshi in the air when Zelda's ground game beats Yoshi's. And Yoshi's aerial approaches are limited since Usmash takes down all of Yoshi's aerials except for Bair and maybe Fair ( Though honestly, you can see Fair a mile away >_>; ) But I think a spaced Fsmash has more range that Bair anyway.
 

Brinzy

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No, not Yoshi's nair vs. our nair. Yoshi's nair vs. any of our aerials, as was stated (in junction with Yoshi's bair).

Meaning, Yoshi's nair vs. our fair/bair.
 

RoyalBlood

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Don't worry, due to fear of thread becoming stale such topics arise.

It's actually pretty fun to discuss them, you should try it sometime.

I think Yoshi's most dangerous aerial is Fair ---> strong, can chain some things, etc.

All others are not as dangerous

Brinstar could be a good stage in this match, Zelda could be able to exploit Yoshi's recovery a little & Din's Fire is fun <3
 

Icyo

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No no no. Completely wrong. Fair is Yoshi's hardest move to possibly land and can definitely not chain due to it being too laggy.

Brinstar:??????????????/
 

RoyalBlood

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I would encourage not to post really useless information that is irrelevant to the topic if you may?

Due to knockback properties and rebounding physics Fair may be able to chain some things. (whoops thanks KayLo!)

Now onto Brinstar I dunno, "Egg Camp" can be avoided easily and Din's Fire + Yoshi's Second Jump SA means you can break the Metroid thingies and since Yoshi won't get his second jump back due to the Super Armor you can watch him fall to the abyss.

I wonder if Zelda can KO earlier Yoshi here without risking her integrity?
 

KayLo!

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Due to knockback properties and rebounding physics Dair may be able to chain some things.
I'm assuming you meant fair since that's what you said before...... but anyway, Icyo's right. Fair is probably the aerial you have to worry about the least from Yoshi. Except maybe dair since we have usmash.

Now onto Brinstar I dunno, "Egg Camp" can be avoided easily
Egg camp isn't too hard to avoid in general since our projectile > his in this matchup, and eggs are relatively easy to powershield.

Except if he ledgecamps, I guess. I don't really know from experience what Zelda's options are for dealing with ledgecamping.


and Din's Fire + Yoshi's Second Jump SA means you can break the Metroid thingies and since Yoshi won't get his second jump back due to the Super Armor you can watch him fall to the abyss.
??? .... Que? :confused:

I wonder if Zelda can KO earlier Yoshi here without risking her integrity?
This stage is madd small, so KOs from both opponents will probably be happening earlier than usual. LKs would be absolutely lethal here.

Too bad I absolutely hate Brinstar. :urg:
 

JigglyZelda003

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i think Royal ment by breaking the middle of brinstar if Yoshi decided to come up through it when recovering. although i don't see that gimping him since if he misses the stage he can egg to the side ledges.....
 

RoyalBlood

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Egg Roll gives almost no distance at all and it's a horrible method to recover :/

I meant that, thanks JigglyZelda :3

Brinstar also makes me wonder if Yoshi's pivot grab gets stuck on the floor?

I think so meaning a less risky way to chase Yoshi

That's my suggestion, any others?
 

Brinzy

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We discuss "useless information" in order to avoid the inevitable "ZELDA HAS BAD RECOVERY" and "ZELDA HAS BAD APPROACH" and "OMG THIS MATCH-UP IS WRONG" posts.

What do you guys want to talk about instead? As far as I know, if it's not about what you want to talk about, there's something wrong, but I promise we don't need to talk about the above three topics in general in this thread. Go bring someone who knows his stuff and let them do the talking, or don't complain.
 

Takumaru

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I still maintain that my trolling post is all this thread will ever need in terms of match up discussions because zelda is such a straight forward character. Ok, take out some of the trolly parts of my post and you have a general summary of her match ups.

And seriously, how many of the posts here are nothing but pure speculation for at least half the cast (in this case, speculation includes experience from playing second rate players)? If a bunch of useless information is being discussed then stop wasting space, summarize the match up, and move on. Open another topic for this match up if people want to discuss it further.
 

Brinzy

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I love this.

If we cut a match-up off in a few days, we didn't give it enough time for discussion.
If we just mellow around because the other side hasn't given enough info, we're wasting space.
If we discuss something pertaining to our focus character so this thread doesn't grow completely dead, it's useless.

Yet the rest of you post bull**** nearly all the time in this thread. How do you expect us to summarize the match-up without comparing attacks? How do you expect us to just open new threads all the time for those who want to add something, which apparently people want to do all the time since "OMG MATCH-UPS ARE WRONG"? How do you expect us to discuss "non-useless" information if the ones who apparently know best (the ones with the most experience) are very few and are slowly adding stuff to this thread, which may not be enough to summarize it?

In short, nobody here really has the right to ***** about what's being posted in this thread unless it's off-topic; as far as I know, talking "useless" stuff like Yoshi's nair vs. our aerials is a lot better than bringing up her recovery again because you're bored or *****ing about what's being posted instead of posting something worthwhile on your own. Either say something new or shut the hell up.

EDIT: And this isn't to say that you guys ALWAYS do this or that you are useless or that I am perfect or whatever. I'm just sick of these type of posts.
 

Kataefi

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Okay I'm going to step in as mod - let's clarify some things:

There are very few tournament Zeldas out there - we have alot listed, but whether they are active is a different story. We get postings once a month from Smash Hawaii, and the occasional postings from one or two other Zelda mains who happen to place top 10 or just outside this in semi-large scale tournaments, which is respectable IMO. But still these postings are scarce.

Now onto my point - because of this lack of representation, a lot of matchups between Zelda vs <...insert character> rarely occur amongst a good spread of players. We cannot get a conclusive view of her metagame or any of her matchups because she's scarce. Whether this is because she sucks, or whether she sucks because of this will never be known until she starts to pick up better or more players.

Therefore the community needs to start somewhere. Let's continue to discuss matchups how they were with input from both sides. Those that think it's useless information need to start explaining why and start providing information they think is better.

Anyone caught trolling after this post will get warned (first time) or infracted. :mad: :psycho:

I think this is a fair post. PM me if you have any problems with this post ^^.
And this will not turn into a tournament discussion just because I mentioned tournaments, take that here.

And now back to Yoshi vs Zelda =D
 

NinjaLink

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i played a campy one with zelda........only 1 match though on yoshis.......we all kno zelda doesnt like that stage.
 

JigglyZelda003

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personally i think the best use for Yoshis is for Zelda dittos lol.

i haven't played any Yoshis for a while though and the few that i did play were Fox mains pivot grabbing me cause i chased them. i wasn't even Zelda for those fights :ohwell:
 

RoyalBlood

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Well, people don't have the right to judge other people since they don't know their playstyle and/or they themselves lack the proper knowledge to do it, specially when they are not "renowed players".

Another point is that I don't know why but the forum is called Smash World Forums, not Smash U.S. Forums or Smash Europe Forums or something like that so the skill may be lower/higher depending on region.

And lastly if you can't afford to travel for a videogame >_> doesn't mean you're bad, who knows may the mysterious gamer slay us all.

PS:: Getting mad over a video game is not a smart thing to do & I'm fairly young and most of you are 20+ so I wonder who should be behaving like a teen and who as an adult :/

I would encourage you to ignore me in benefit of the thread & not continuing a bad argument

(Ignoring feels worse than replying ;))

Back onto Yoshi I've played quite a few, the skill doesn't matter, Zelda has tools to combat him.

If her spacing is nicely shaped she can make Yoshi approach and deal damage at him for doing it, even he does it right.

Zelda can stand there unless she's losing, though.

Then it would be necessary to approach, if the case arises Zelda can do a good job getting inside Yoshi without putting herself at risk since Yoshi's very fast moves are not powerful enough -(Jab, Nair)- and some more, I would love if someone enlighted me in this matter.

I'm now thinking that Rainbow Cruise could be a good alternative against Yoshi.

(It's nice to explore the possibilities before giving a veredict)
 

MrEh

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I've played a few of the best Yoshis out there.
M'kay.


I've played GreenAce. Who I think is one of if not the best Yoshi in the U.S.
GreenAce is serious business.


We discuss "useless information" in order to avoid the inevitable "ZELDA HAS BAD RECOVERY" and "ZELDA HAS BAD APPROACH" and "OMG THIS MATCH-UP IS WRONG" posts
Zelda having a bad approach and a bad recovery is 100% correct. And it bears repeating, since it sucks so bad. Zelda having no approach is important in the Yoshi matchup, since Yoshi outcamps Zelda, and therefore forces her to approach. And the first person who says "LOL NARYU'S CAN REFLECT EGGS" has never played a good Yoshi. Just because it can reflect eggs doesn't mean that it's a good idea.


I still maintain that my trolling post is all this thread will ever need in terms of match up discussions because zelda is such a straight forward character. Ok, take out some of the trolly parts of my post and you have a general summary of her match ups.
Sadly, you are correct. I guess some Zelda players might have taken offense to what you said, but I found it a hilariously accurate description of the Zelda boards.


Yet the rest of you post bull**** nearly all the time in this thread.
I found Takamaru's post to be more entertaining and insightful then half the posts in this thread. Every time I make a post in the Zelda boards, I usually have something useful to say, despite all of my trolling.


as far as I know, talking "useless" stuff like Yoshi's nair vs. our aerials is a lot better than bringing up her recovery again because you're bored or *****ing about what's being posted instead of posting something worthwhile on your own.
Comparing attacks isn't a bad thing. The problem is that you're comparing attacks that aren't even that important to discuss. Whether or not Zelda's Nair beats Yoshi's Nair is pointless, since it's not like Yoshi is going to spam his Nair against you anyway. Nair is a horrible approach, and will only be used in very specific situations. If you want to discuss something useful, it should be comparing something like Yoshi's Bair to Zelda's Usmash. Or discussing what approach Zelda has on Yoshi, because you are forced to approach in this matchup.


only 1 match though on yoshis
Yoshi's is so dumb. lol


Well, people don't have the right to judge other people since they don't know their playstyle and/or they themselves lack the proper knowledge to do it, specially when they are not "renowed players".
I'm not saying that we shouldn't listen to less experienced players. Matchups however, should be discussed at the highest level of play. In other words, tournament level play.


I'm now thinking that Rainbow Cruise could be a good alternative against Yoshi.
Rainbow Cruise? With Zelda?!?! O_o
 

GodAtHand

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Rainbow Cruise? With Zelda?!?! O_o
In all honesty I have had some good matches on Rainbow with Zelda. Mostly teams though. If Zelda can stay ahead of the opponent kinda like a race she can do well. If you are above them and they try to jump up to a platform you are on Zelda's Dtilt will spike them back down. And at the part after the ship and the magic carpets the ceiling is really low which is awesome.

I dunno, it can be bad, but I wouldn't say its her worst stage.
 

Sonic The Hedgedawg

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Brief Aside:
is it really important to spend THIS much time discussing the validity of this thread? If you don't like it, no-one's forcing you to stay. If you do, you don't need to try to prove that you are justified in doing so.


I wouldn't say it's her worst stage, but it's definately not a stage that I would counterpick.
agreed.

I like mansion (I know that seems overused) since it limits the ability to use aerials in the match and it kills his egg camping game.

Spammy campy yoshi's are lame... but it's not like Egg throw is going to wreck you unless you just frustrated by him and get sloppy.

He's got a hella range on that grab of his, so if you see him sheildgrabbing a lot, or just sheilding a lot in general then cross up and land behind him since his OoS options are HORRIBLE.

I've occasionally used nayru's on sheikdgrabbing yoshis since ytheir tongue will just go through invincible zelda and they'll get hit by nayrus, landing them close enough that you can generally follow up. The problem is, due to the lack of safety on nayru's, it's not going to be a bread-and-butter counter for yoshi's sheildgrab. you'll get wrecked if he doesn't fall for it, but it works well if he's being predictable. Generally, the risk isn't worth it, but it bears mentioning.

I haven't played any top level yoshis and, even if I had, I've been pretty out of action as far as smash is concerned for at least a few months now, so I couldn't give recent insight anyway. But I do play DECENT yoshis often and, while it doesn't prepare me for good yoshi's, it does give me a very good idea of what moves of zeldas can beat out what moves of yoshi's and vice versa.

Due to that I'm going to have to say that stage choice is very important because if yoshi's forcing the approach and you don't have the means to just dodge all day long, you can have one heck of an uphill battle. Keeping up pressure is key. Aerially, unless he's exposing himself, he's really hard for us to beat so staying grounded when possible is even MORE important than usual.

Upsmash is, as always, very very good, but yoshi really does have the means to get around it, so you have to know when he's got the angle on you becuase he'll just hit you if you upsash sometimes. sheilding can be a much better option.

He's by no means a small target, platformed stages would be ideal for lightning kick landing since yoshi Is heavy.

Yoshi's recovery is hard for us to gimp, so it's really not worth it to try, but his recovery itself can be rather predictable. Sometimes just accepting that he's going to make it back and throwing din's at him is the best we can expect.

all the same, we just straightforward beat him out in ground combat.
 

MrEh

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I like mansion (I know that seems overused) since it limits the ability to use aerials in the match and it kills his egg camping game.
Mansion has been moved to counter/banned in the SBR ruleset. Since Mansion was already banned in many places before, you're probably never going to be able to use Mansion anymore.


He's got a hella range on that grab of his, so if you see him sheildgrabbing a lot, or just sheilding a lot in general then cross up and land behind him since his OoS options are HORRIBLE.
Yoshi will not be shield grabbing. He will be pivot grabbing your approach. If Yoshi is shield grabbing a lot, then that Yoshi is probably horrible.
 

Fingerp@ss

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Yoshi will not be shield grabbing. He will be pivot grabbing your approach. If Yoshi is shield grabbing a lot, then that Yoshi is probably horrible.
I think in Zelda's case, its somewhat safer (but not practical) for Yoshi to shield grab certain moves. I wouldn't do it though. :p
 

Canvasofgrey

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Mansion has been moved to counter/banned in the SBR ruleset. Since Mansion was already banned in many places before, you're probably never going to be able to use Mansion anymore.
*Shrug* Honestly, no one really cares about the SBR rules until it's highly recognized. Most stage and counterpicks are judged based on the area, city, or state, and since Luigi's is legal in SoCal, I'm not worried about it being banned for quite sometime until more people actually accept it. After all, the rules may change in general, doesn't mean people will follow them.

Yoshi will not be shield grabbing. He will be pivot grabbing your approach. If Yoshi is shield grabbing a lot, then that Yoshi is probably horrible.
I dunno, As Zelda, I would probably never really need to approach Yoshi, let alone chase him on the run. I never played a lot of Yoshi, let alone expert Yoshi mains, but I couldn't imagine Yoshi players using much more than Pivot Grab and Bair while on the run away from the opponent.
 

MrEh

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I dunno, As Zelda, I would probably never really need to approach Yoshi, let alone chase him on the run. I never played a lot of Yoshi, let alone expert Yoshi mains, but I couldn't imagine Yoshi players using much more than Pivot Grab and Bair while on the run away from the opponent.
Zelda never needs to approach Yoshi? Yoshi forces an approach. You have to approach him.


I think in Zelda's case, its somewhat safer (but not practical) for Yoshi to shield grab certain moves. I wouldn't do it though. :p
FingerP@ss speaks the truth.
 

Fingerp@ss

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Yoshi's main option of approach is the bair. Bair is one of Yoshi's best moves but is still REALLY REALLY BAD especially is performed too far from an opponent. Given enough space between Zelda and Yoshi, Zelda can just fsmash the bair, or as usually shield grab it. However Yoshi is capable of jabbing, tilting, or dsmashing almost instantly after a bair.

Eggtossing is also an option for Yoshi to approach or camp. Yoshi lags bad after each egg toss leaving him vulnerable to a dash attack or a running grab. Zelda could also just reflect eggs as well. Watch out for Yoshi's grab after an egg toss.

Probably the thing you would have to watch out for are Yoshi's pivot grabs. Avoiding pivot grabs while chasing Yoshi isn't all to bad, the one you have to watchout for are pivot grabs while Zelda is falling (if the Yoshi is smart and utilizes pivot grabs correctly).

60:40 in Zelda's favor is accurate (if not, given more advantage to Zelda's side). Yoshi cant really challenge too much of Zelda's moves. Also two of Yoshi's killing moves are the Yoshi bomb (off the ground) or an uair. Both are very hard for Yoshi to land unless Yoshi can space the Yoshibomb correclt, read a jump, or jab cancel it. Yoshi would be very smart/lucky to land a kill with a smash.

That said watch where you land and you should have no problem beating Yoshi.

YOSHI CUTE!!!
 

Poltergust

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^You forgot up-smash being a good kill move, too. Since Zelda is so light it is actually pretty good to kill with it in this match-up.

As for stages, Luigi's Mansion is definitely her best counterpick against Yoshi. She can out-camp him there, has an easy time killing, and basically forces Yoshi to fight against her on the ground, where Zelda totally dominates.

For a neutral stage, Battlefield is probably your best bet. Platforms there allow for easy Lightning Kicking (be careful of our up-smash, though), and Zelda is generally protected by the platforms if she positions herself correctly. And he recovery isn't horribly gimped by the stage, either (I'm looking at you FD, YI, and LC).

In all honesty, Zelda should BAN Rainbow Cruise since that stage promotes aerial combat, a field where Yoshi does better than Zelda in. Not to mention that Yoshi does well on that stage already (at least I do XD). If Rainbow Cruise isn't a counterpick (sadly...), then the next best ban is Halberd, which is a stage that Zelda has trouble recovering on and acts as a good Yoshi stage, too.
 

Sonic The Hedgedawg

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^You forgot up-smash being a good kill move, too. Since Zelda is so light it is actually pretty good to kill with it in this match-up.
Zelda should NEVER try to approach yoshi from directly above and, otherwise, your upsmash isn't going to be the easiest thing to land. It's not that it's not able to kill. It just isn't as practical as either of those other two kill moves. in fact, I'd even put Fsmash above USmash as far as likelihood of hitting. At least Fsmash can punish an improperly spaced Zelda Fsmash.


For a neutral stage, Battlefield is probably your best bet. Platforms there allow for easy Lightning Kicking (be careful of our up-smash, though), and Zelda is generally protected by the platforms if she positions herself correctly. And he recovery isn't horribly gimped by the stage, either (I'm looking at you FD, YI, and LC).
It's a great zelda stage... too bad we can't sheildpoke yoshi through the platforms like we can everyone else.
 

Kataefi

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It's also very comforting to see that a lot of the discussion before fingerp@ss' post matches exactly what he said about the matchup ;)

Good stuff from everyone on both sides then ^^

Can Zelda shieldgrab yoshi after bair? Or does he have enough autocancelling frames to go straight into a jab/tilt to beat out her slow grab?
 

Sonic The Hedgedawg

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isn't he going to have his back turned to her as he lands his bair?

Zelda's grab sucks balls though, so maybe he still does have time to turn around first.

I'm sure zelda has better options than grab in this instance.

dtilt maybe?
 

Brinzy

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Zelda having a bad approach and a bad recovery is 100% correct. And it bears repeating, since it sucks so bad. Zelda having no approach is important in the Yoshi matchup, since Yoshi outcamps Zelda, and therefore forces her to approach. And the first person who says "LOL NARYU'S CAN REFLECT EGGS" has never played a good Yoshi. Just because it can reflect eggs doesn't mean that it's a good idea.
First off:

Yoshi lags bad after each egg toss leaving him vulnerable to a dash attack or a running grab. Zelda could also just reflect eggs as well. Watch out for Yoshi's grab after an egg toss.
That, in conjunction with Din's, means that Zelda can definitely use this to combat Egg Toss. There you go, pulling the "never played a good ____" card when it is virtually irrelevant because everyone has said the same thing. This is exactly what I'm talking about.

Second, note how I have stated AND implied now and in the past that nobody wants to discuss Zelda's bad approach and recovery in a match-up thread WHEN THEY DO NOT PERTAIN TO A SPECIFIC MATCH-UP. This thread does go off into Zelda's recovery and her approach when there are threads for those up already. Sure, if Yoshi punishes her recovery in a specific way, feel free to post those, but don't just walk in the thread, look bored, and go, "Hey guys, Zelda has a bad recovery and I love how gimpable it is even though everyone knows this and is trying to find a way to make it back onto the stage safely."

Sadly, you are correct. I guess some Zelda players might have taken offense to what you said, but I found it a hilariously accurate description of the Zelda boards.
Who cares about that? All I care about is the fact that people have the audacity to call something a waste of space when their main existence is to say something that is common knowledge and doesn't do a **** thing.

I found Takamaru's post to be more entertaining and insightful then half the posts in this thread. Every time I make a post in the Zelda boards, I usually have something useful to say, despite all of my trolling.
I don't care about Takamaru. (No offense.)

Consider what makes up that half (which is more than a half) of the posts in this thread before making that statement.

Also, stating a fact does not always mean it is useful. See: what got me started in the first place.



Comparing attacks isn't a bad thing. The problem is that you're comparing attacks that aren't even that important to discuss. Whether or not Zelda's Nair beats Yoshi's Nair is pointless, since it's not like Yoshi is going to spam his Nair against you anyway. Nair is a horrible approach, and will only be used in very specific situations. If you want to discuss something useful, it should be comparing something like Yoshi's Bair to Zelda's Usmash. Or discussing what approach Zelda has on Yoshi, because you are forced to approach in this matchup.
Yoshi's bair vs. Zelda's Usmash

Zelda wins if Yoshi touches any part of the magic wave.

Yoshi wins if he knows how to space and attacks Zelda's body and not her hand.

Nobody cares if nair is a horrible approach if we're talking about what beats what.

Zelda is not forced to approach. If she was, most Yoshis wouldn't be saying, "It's stupidly hard to get inside Zelda and that makes it hard for Yoshi. Adv. to Zelda." For some reason, people have this super aversion to Din's and Nayru's to the point that most everyone claims them to be nigh useless in virtually all situations. This is bull****. Nayru's and Din's do help to keep Zelda from having to approach. Watch the trajectory of the egg and watch Yoshi. Use Nayru's when the egg will go back to him and hinder his approach or when you're too far to be punished to prevent a stupid mistake otherwise. Use Din's if you can flat out avoid the egg and you know it is coming.

Zelda is not forced to approach. Since you seem to like to talk about DM and Fingerp@ss all the time, why not check some of their videos out, where DM has used Nayru's just like that? Or, let's try the fact that Zelda was never forced to approach, but maybe, just maybe, Zelda would benefit from an approach at a closer distance.

... Zelda is not forced to approach.



I'm not saying that we shouldn't listen to less experienced players. Matchups however, should be discussed at the highest level of play. In other words, tournament level play.
Where nobody uses Zelda's specials because they suck so bad, Zelda gets ***** all the time whenever she takes a step towards her opponent, nair is horrible, it is useless to try and beat out your opponent's attacks with her aerials, she gets outcamped by everyone, and nobody has played a good anything and will therefore get ***** because her match-ups are incredibly terrible, right?

Everyone should listen to what this man has to say.

He plays DM on a regular basis, and what he says is probably the most accurate information about the matchup you will ever hear.
Nearly every single thing he said was already said earlier in our thread and much earlier in the thread on the Yoshi board. Let's make more appeals to the authority, right?

Yes, I did just go after you. My point of all of it is that if you want to say everything you say (which I don't care if it's trolling/serious/whatever, just what you're saying), go ahead, but don't sit back and call a lot of this thread useless. Remember who and what has made up this thread.
 

adumbrodeus

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I'm not saying that we shouldn't listen to less experienced players. Matchups however, should be discussed at the highest level of play. In other words, tournament level play.
Wrong.

Match-ups should be discussed at the highest level of play, but tournament play ISN'T necessarily the highest level of play for a character.

Our knowledge of the capabilities of a character often goes far beyond what is actually played at tournament, and it's very rare for a player to be using a character at the top of it's potential, even at tournaments and known high level tournament players.

You have a select few people like Ally and M2K that can make a claim to be using their characters at the true top of the character's metagame.


That's where theory comes in, that's where we talk about what beats what and what tactics work in a given match-up. The tools are hitbox data, disjointedness, and frame data (among other technical specifics), and from there we discuss, "at the limits of what's humanily possible, what character will win most on average, assuming all else is even".


So, no, most tournament play is not necessarily reflective of the top level of play, aka the top of the metagame.


Edit: It definately does illustrate concepts, but tournament play should be taken as just that, an illustration of concepts in action, not the top of the metagame itself.
 

sniperworm

Smash Ace
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Yoshi's main option of approach is the bair. Bair is one of Yoshi's best moves but is still REALLY REALLY BAD especially is performed too far from an opponent. Given enough space between Zelda and Yoshi, Zelda can just fsmash the bair, or as usually shield grab it. However Yoshi is capable of jabbing, tilting, or dsmashing almost instantly after a bair.

Eggtossing is also an option for Yoshi to approach or camp. Yoshi lags bad after each egg toss leaving him vulnerable to a dash attack or a running grab. Zelda could also just reflect eggs as well. Watch out for Yoshi's grab after an egg toss.

Probably the thing you would have to watch out for are Yoshi's pivot grabs. Avoiding pivot grabs while chasing Yoshi isn't all to bad, the one you have to watchout for are pivot grabs while Zelda is falling (if the Yoshi is smart and utilizes pivot grabs correctly).

60:40 in Zelda's favor is accurate (if not, given more advantage to Zelda's side). Yoshi cant really challenge too much of Zelda's moves. Also two of Yoshi's killing moves are the Yoshi bomb (off the ground) or an uair. Both are very hard for Yoshi to land unless Yoshi can space the Yoshibomb correclt, read a jump, or jab cancel it. Yoshi would be very smart/lucky to land a kill with a smash.

That said watch where you land and you should have no problem beating Yoshi.

YOSHI CUTE!!!
OMG, it's Pat!

Anyway, I find Yoshi's Pivot Grab and Neutral B to be the most troublesome moves (I like shielding, what can I say). I always seem to end up in Yoshi's mouth. He can do some really unconventional approaches because he has a ranged grab that can be executed in the air, lots of aerial speed, and a unique second jump. The combination of these things makes it pretty tough to defend against him despite his seeming lack of priority.

On a less serious note, Yoshi's doopwalk is super good because it's very distracting (to me anyway) and it rapidly changes his hurtbox (since the majority of it is that big nose). Beware doopwalk to anything, lol.
 

Sonic The Hedgedawg

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could y'all take it to PMs or just stop *****ing so that we can actually discuss Yoshi vs. Zelda?

anyhow, yeah, to a point Raph is right: Egg throw might be better than din's on the whole, but it's not so much better that Zelda's going to have no choice but to approach. Besides, there's a nice place you can be where you're to close to yoshi for him to risk throwing an egg because of the awful lag on the attack, but to far away for him to hit with anything else.
 
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