Zelda Matchup Thread // OUTDATED

[Poltergust]

Yoshi does have the better projectile, but since Zelda's projectile can still pose a problem and the fact that she has a reflector means that Yoshi would have to approach. The main reason why this match-up is advantaged for Zelda is because she has quite a few reliable ways to stop Yoshi's approach options. A properly timed Nayru's Love can stop Yoshi's ground approach, and Zelda has a few other moves to stop his aerial approaches.

The best piece of advice I can give Zelda mains is: USE NAYRU'S LOVE. That move does really well in forcing Yoshi to approach, stopping his approaches, and punishing spot-dodges (something that Yoshi almost always does OOS). It's probably Zelda's best move in this match-up. (except for maybe up-smash)

 

[[TSON]]

Zelda's grab is too slow to use after Yoshi's bair. A popular combo for most Yoshis I've played is bair to upsmash, and also remember that it has a hitbox in the front and in the back of him as well. Using/trying-to-use Din's fire to keep bair away whenever possible is usually a good idea.

I've found using Farore's Wind a lot in this matchup to be very helpful too.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I'd think his tail would dispell Din's.

as for nayru's being awesome... yes and no. If zelda is lucky... yes, but it's got hella cooldown on it. Zelda should be smart enough to know when it's safe, but sometimes she won't bust it out even if it's a good option because, if yoshi predicts it, he will punish hard.

Nayru's, Fsmash, USmash and UTilt all can punish spotdodging with really good lingering hitboxes. More rarely, I'll punish with lightning kicks or dtilt locks, but they are situational. They are GREAT, but the first 3 are the things you should rely on more.

as for how to deal with a bairing yoshi.... well... that all depends on his position when you can attack. if he's close, Usmash is a great OoS Option and if he's far... well I just wouldn't bother.

 

[bigman40]

Nair, Bair (one of the flicks has to hit at the same time), Dair, Uair, Fair >> Din's

 

[[TSON]]

The tail doesn't always get rid of Din's, iirc. I'll try it later.

 

[bigman40]

The tail doesn't always get rid of Din's, iirc. I'll try it later.

I've done it before. But it's not common that it'll work as simple as Nair or Uair.

 

[Brinzy]

Nair, Bair (one of the flicks has to hit at the same time), Dair, Uair, Fair >> Din's

Nair - the weak hitbox gets outprioritized by a high-priority Din's

Dair - see nair (in other words, airdodge/nair > that)

Bair - explained

Fair - can be aimed away from the hitbox of fair and still hit Yoshi

Uair - I don't know if this has a weak hitbox. If not, it's a matter of timing, but I don't think it lasts that long anyway.


Best option - nair, but just airdodge it.

 

[Poltergust]

Din's Fire has high priority? It clanks with everything. It just has huge range.

 

[bigman40]

More like mid priority. It's like Egg roll's priority imo

 

[Kataefi]

I actually think it depends where you target it... there's a white light in the centre that represents the burst... I've been testing it and I can sometimes hit Marth out of his fair if the explosion is behind him. In front of him and the blast will be cut through via his fair slash.

 

[Brinzy]

Egg Roll priority? lolno.

Din's hits for 16% far away. Many aerials do not hit for 7% (or their sourspot is not 7%). Therefore, someone attempting a clash without the strong hitbox is getting hit.

This is why, for Zelda players, Zelda cannot use ANY aerial to clash out Din's. Uair is pretty much completely disjointed, and the rest can't take it.

 

[NinjaLink]

Yoshis egg roll hits through MK tornado 100%. i THINK it has priority......

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

yeah.. yoshi's nair is the only aerial I'd say RELIABLY will break through Din's

 

[Brinzy]

Yoshis egg roll hits through MK tornado 100%. i THINK it has priority......

Well, so does Falcon's 10% dtilt. I think that's because that's just where most everyone can hit MK out of the tornado, unless you're talking a position that I'm not seeing.

 

[MrEh]

could y'all take it to PMs or just stop *****ing so that we can actually discuss Yoshi vs. Zelda?

I'm certainly not upset about this entire situation. I find it funny.

I had a big post all ready to be posted, quoting Raph a lot, but then I realized that I could just summarize it quickly.

Zelda wins if Yoshi touches any part of the magic wave.

Yoshi wins if he knows how to space and attacks Zelda's body and not her hand.

There you go. You tested and discovered some useful information! ^^

Nobody cares if nair is a horrible approach if we're talking about what beats what.

Someone said that it's useless to bring up information that meets a certain criteria. What was that criteria? Oh yeah...

WHEN THEY DO NOT PERTAIN TO A SPECIFIC MATCH-UP

The person who brought up that point was yourself. ^^

Since you seem to like to talk about DM and Fingerp@ss all the time, why not check some of their videos out, where DM has used Nayru's just like that?

I don't need to see their videos. I see them enough in person.

... Zelda is not forced to approach.

Zelda wins because she ***** Yoshi once she closes the gap between then. As long as she's intelligent about her approach, she wins. One Zelda gets close to Yoshi, the only real thing you have to worry about is pivot grabs.

Where nobody uses Zelda's specials because they suck so bad, Zelda gets ***** all the time whenever she takes a step towards her opponent, nair is horrible, it is useless to try and beat out your opponent's attacks with her aerials, she gets outcamped by everyone, and nobody has played a good anything and will therefore get ***** because her match-ups are incredibly terrible, right?

This is correct. lol

 

[NinjaLink]

all im sayin is fight a yoshi with zelda that never approachs u.

 

[Brinzy]

The only thing I'm gonna respond to is:

Someone said that it's useless to bring up information that meets a certain criteria. What was that criteria? Oh yeah...

WHEN THEY DO NOT PERTAIN TO A SPECIFIC MATCH-UP

The person who brought up that point was yourself. ^^

Yoshi's nair vs. Zelda's aerials = match-up specific and is never talked about unless we're talking about Yoshi

Nair being a horrible approach = something that is brought up repeatedly and when we're not discussing a character

Stuff like that is fine to say when someone goes, "omg hey, nair is a beastly approach", but there's no point in bringing it up if nobody is suggesting otherwise. Same goes for her recovery - it does not need to be emphasized at every corner. I don't see anyone calling it a wonderful recovery every single page, nor do I see people always defending it all the time. At most, people will mention a way you can do something to help Zelda not die from a recovery, yet immediately someone has to go, "Zelda's recovery is bad/gimpable." Absolutely pointless information to add, and I'm not singling that out; whoever starts on her recovery first when a match-up is not really being discussed is just as much at fault.

That is all.

 

[Canvasofgrey]

MR. Eh's trolling still makes me giggle.

 

[Brinzy]

Maybe I'm too tense this week.

 

[KayLo!]

........

........

*goes back to the Pika boards*

 

[Poltergust]

Egg Roll actually DOES have a lot of priority when going full speed. It's not really viable in this match-up since Nayru's Love destroys it, though. Moving on...

 

[NinjaLink]

........

........

*goes back to the Pika boards*

*gasp*

*chases*

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Egg Roll actually DOES have a lot of priority when going full speed. It's not really viable in this match-up since Nayru's Love destroys it, though. Moving on...

Doesn't Din's dtop it? or is that just jiggly's rollout?

 

[Poltergust]

It stops it, but it doesn't go through it. Most projectiles can stop it, actually. You're better off using Nayru's Love, though.

 

[Fingerp@ss]

You can just dtilt it.

 

[Canvasofgrey]

Or spaced Fsmash and Ftilt.

 

[MrEh]

Or you can just do nothing, since Yoshi won't be using the egg roll anyway. lol

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Oh I'd definitely try to Fsmash it. it's just I wanted to be sure in case yoshi tried to use egg roll to get past Din's once we started it.

 

[sniperworm]

I actually think it depends where you target it... there's a white light in the centre that represents the burst... I've been testing it and I can sometimes hit Marth out of his fair if the explosion is behind him. In front of him and the blast will be cut through via his fair slash.

This is because moves only clank (cancel each other out) if the hitboxes overlap. If you explode Din's where it doesn't touch the hitbox for Marth's Fair but it does overlap his hurtbox, Marth will get hit. If you explode it where any part of the Din's hitbox touches Marth's sword, he'll cut right through it and laugh at you.

This is why, for Zelda players, Zelda cannot use ANY aerial to clash out Din's. Uair is pretty much completely disjointed, and the rest can't take it.

Does this mean that we could at close range (aka Din's does 10% or less)? I always thought moves like Nair, Uair, Fair, and Bair had transcendant priority (don't cancel with other moves) which is why they can't cancel Din's.

 

[MrEh]

Does this mean that we could at close range (aka Din's does 10% or less)? I always thought moves like Nair, Uair, Fair, and Bair had transcendant priority (don't cancel with other moves) which is why they can't cancel Din's.

I think it has to do with how powerful your attacks are.

Nearly all of Bowser's aerials clank with dins, but that's because Bowser's aerials do high damage. Zelda's kicks do not (since you can't sweetspot dins), which sort of makes me think that whether or not something clanks with Dins depends on how strong the attack is that's challenging it.

Or something like that.


Funnyact: Sonic's Spin Dash clanks with it. lol

 

[NinjaLink]

its priority. If its something that clashes, it would cancel out dins. Also dins priority changes depending on how long its out.

 

[Canvasofgrey]

Most of her multiple hitting moves change her priority, I think.

I'm certain her Din, her Fsmash, and her Usmash have ascending priority. But I wonder about Jab, and all the other moves, or is it just the range that increases?

 

[Kataefi]

Magical attacks always trade at the very worst... she never clanks with anything at all unless it's her foot on the ground such as dtilt or dsmash, which in that case that's not 'magical'.

This is why sometimes you might FSmash Marth at the same time he Fsmashes you... you will trade hits, but he gets the better trade because he only receives 1% from the first hit of Zelda's FSmash whilst you get something like 15%.

 

[NinjaLink]

i recall zeldas dsmash having someone invincibility at her toe or something like that. Her magic attacks priority changes the more its decayed it seems.

 

[Kataefi]

i recall zeldas dsmash having someone invincibility at her toe or something like that. Her magic attacks priority changes the more its decayed it seems.

O really? That's quite interesting to know. I might look into that... I've heard shield push back and stun is affected by decay as well :?

 

[sniperworm]

Her magic attacks priority changes the more its decayed it seems.

Really? I've never seen her magic attacks clank (clash, cancel out, etc (I don't know what it's called)) with anything. How much decay are we talking about before our attacks start to clank with other things?

Do you think Metaknight's moves experience a similar phenomenon?

 

[KayLo!]

Really? I've never seen her magic attacks clank (clash, cancel out, etc (I don't know what it's called)) with anything. How much decay are we talking about before our attacks start to clank with other things?

They don't clank.... as far as I know, they always trade or beat/get beaten entirely, but like Kataefi said, you'll be dealing like.... 1% if it trades hits. Or however much damage/knockback the first hit of fsmash does.

Invincibility on her toe during dsmash? That's so weird, lol.

 

[NinjaLink]

upsmash beats tornado lol

 

[GodAtHand]

you'll be dealing like.... 1% if it trades hits. Or however much damage/knockback the first hit of fsmash does.
.

I've traded hits seen the opponent et all sparkly, but done 0% damage to them... T_T

Thats when I started using Fsmash against character with good range...

 

[Poltergust]

Uh... back to Yoshi discussion, please? ._.