Zelda Matchup Thread // OUTDATED

[MrEh]

who has done so?

I know just the person.

Ask DarkMusician about the matchup. He knows.

 

[Kataefi]

EDIT:: looks like we're already discussing yoshi so we'll just finish him off now.

iirc - the yoshis were saying this is a tough matchup for them, but others were saying otherwise. It was quite split, so we shall see.

 

[NinjaLink]

zelda isnt even with yoshi. What gave u that crazy idea?

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Feels like it could be anywhere between 60:40 and 50:50 to me.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

don't chase Yoshi or suffer pivot grab.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

can we outrange his grab with our Fsmash?

 

[Villi]

Yoshi is a dinosaur.

 

[Brinzy]

... The one match-up when Zelda has the advantage and you guys say even? What the hell?


Zelda can take Yoshi on from long-range with Nayru's and Din's, so long as you're not stupid with either one. I've forced Yoshi to approach because of this, and this meant that I could just play defensively. Zelda overrides Yoshi quite effectively in just about every situation. Jab his SH stuff and just force him to approach. This is a clear 60:40 in Zelda's favor.

 

[Takumaru]

Wait, yoshi is in brawl?

Here, let me save us all 10 pages of people saying the same thing:
lol, din's fiya from long range! IZ SO GOOD N NAIYROOS MAKES HER UBER FORM LONG RANGE LOLOLOL!
*something about characters weight or mobility making them hard to kill followed by a contradicting statement saying they're easy to kill with some move*
Random stuff about f-smash out-ranging EVERY MOVE IN THE GAME.
Random bull**** about how zelda counters everything in the game in any situation.
Denial about any weak points she might have. (or at the very least people avoiding the issue...)
Argument about the match up being 55/45 or 50/50.
Something about her recovery
Everyone who isn't a zelda players gets pissed off

/thread

 

[Half-Split Soul]

can we outrange his grab with our Fsmash?

I don´t think so, it has crazy range.

@Takumaru: Wow, someone´s pissed off...

Nayru´s love isn´t very good in this matchup IMO. The reflected eggs practically never hit Yoshi and the lag of the move give him a free smash/grab/aerial.

 

[Takumaru]

Well if you want something useful from me, here it is:

Yoshi has trouble dealing with cross-ups because of his miserable OoS options (he can roll or spot dodge, yay yoshi...). Get behind him and you limit his options. U-smash a spot dodge, chase a roll. Pick your poison.

Watch out for f-smash because it has crazy range. He also pulls his head back which, much like bowser's f-smash, lets him dodge a hit. Requires some prediction, but this is brawl, everyone buffers everything.

Pivot grab > you. Don't be stupid and chase yoshi if he's running away; let a fire ball follow him.

And yes, I'm pissed off.

 

[powuh_of_PIE]

Nayru´s love isn´t very good in this matchup IMO. The reflected eggs practically never hit Yoshi and the lag of the move give him a free smash/grab/aerial.

I agree, probably better to Din's glide back and forth when pressuring so he can't pin you down. Up close, the Zelda player has to be smart about defense; Yoshi's amazing aerial speed can catch you off guard if you choose the wrong tilt/smash to defend with. Playing on reaction works well though, and from what I can tell Yoshi has a hard time getting through the priority. It's looking like 60:40 Zelda right now, but I'd like to hear the Yoshi mains.

 

[Metatitan]

i think its pretty much covered, id like to hear input from scatty and stocky first

 

[MrEh]

Here, let me save us all 10 pages of people saying the same thing:
lol, din's fiya from long range! IZ SO GOOD N NAIYROOS MAKES HER UBER FORM LONG RANGE LOLOLOL!
*something about characters weight or mobility making them hard to kill followed by a contradicting statement saying they're easy to kill with some move*
Random stuff about f-smash out-ranging EVERY MOVE IN THE GAME.
Random bull**** about how zelda counters everything in the game in any situation.
Denial about any weak points she might have. (or at the very least people avoiding the issue...)
Argument about the match up being 55/45 or 50/50.
Something about her recovery
Everyone who isn't a zelda players gets pissed off

You win the internet.

@Takumaru: Wow, someone´s pissed off...

What he said was true. lol


Seriously though, DM knows this matchup. He's plays FingerP@ss all the time.

 

[Deleted member]

I played a zelda a reaaally long time ago who was ranked in my area and won in tournament, so let me try to remember....

Uhhh
Zelda has dumb smashes and dumb down tilt.
Camp her a lot, but dont like, just sit and camp, do empty short hops towards her then reverse ETS.
Uhh zelda kills retardedly early cuz of her lightning kicks, i believe she can down tilt trip to sweetspot bair.

Uhhh, zelda wants to stay mid range, where she can move in when needed, but wont get ***** by eggs. If yoshi spot dodges(he has one of the best in the game), neutral b will take care of it.
Zelda is combo bait so dont wait around for him to back air you, cuz it leads into a bunch of deadly stuff, and zelda is bad at getting down.
When yoshi recovers i would try to bait an airdodge and down air or lightning kick.

*shrugs* 6-4 zelda cuz of killing and close range priority.

 

[Half-Split Soul]

Yoshi has great spotdodge, but sometimes it works against him in Zelda matchup. Since his shield isn´t as good, Yoshi´s often prefer spotdodge, but because Zelda has two good and long-lasting smashes Yoshi gets punished if he times it wrong.

The picture

You must be happy since you got the chance to use that here too.

 

[GodAtHand]

I've played Green Ace. (only a few matches mind you) And I can see this match going 60-40 either way, or stopping somewhere in between obviously.

Yoshi's eggs are a pain to deal with, Nayru's really just does not cut it here. In the air Zelda is combo bait and Yoshi has very good ariel speed, so you don't want to be in the air too much. But Zelda can also be outranged by him on the ground. His tongue is very long and if you don't foresee it coming you don't have a move to beat it out.

He has invincibility frames on second jump, so if he just uses that you can get some damage on him, but you won't be killing him during his recovery.

I Found Nayru's useful close range because of how long it lasts. And dtilt is worth the lock on this one because of how much damage you WANT to do once you finally get into the suckers comfort zone.

If he runs away from you, dont follow. Just Din's, at best he trys to egg you and you hit him and the egg. at worst you hit only the egg and think from there.

His Fsmash CAN outrange yours if he times it right. And it kills Zelda pretty decently so look out.

I don't have any set numbers in my brain cavity. But thats just what I know about the matchup.

 

[MrEh]

He has invincibility frames on second jump, so if he just uses that you can get some damage on him, but you won't be killing him during his recovery.

That's not invincibility frames, that's super armor. Invincibility means they don't get hurt, super armor means they don't flinch.

If he runs away from you, dont follow. Just Din's, at best he trys to egg you and you hit him and the egg. at worst you hit only the egg and think from there.

Watch out for the pivot grab.

His Fsmash CAN outrange yours if he times it right. And it kills Zelda pretty decently so look out.

Zelda is light. Everything kills her early.

 

[GodAtHand]

That's not invincibility frames, that's super armor. Invincibility means they don't get hurt, super armor means they don't flinch.



Watch out for the pivot grab.



Zelda is light. Everything kills her early.

Yah thats what I meant thanks....

And I have been told that my Zelda is fat lol. I guess I am just good at DI'ing.

 

[KayLo!]

I agree, probably better to Din's glide back and forth when pressuring so he can't pin you down.

Hmm, I would mix up Din's with powershielding the eggs. (They're relatively slow and easy to see coming at mid-long range.)

Having Din's out to explode at will is nice if he decides to approach, but Din's also has a lot of lag.... and it's just as easy to powershield. He can toss an egg, wait for you to glide, run forward, pshield Din's, and keep it movin' while you're still in cooldown lag. Add that to his ridiculous grab range, and you're setting yourself up to be combo'd.

Depends how far away he was, but you get my general point. Din's gliding is probably better left to long range -- as in, FD-length camping.

Just my 2 cents. I don't know this matchup well enough to give a hardcore opinion on the number, but 60:40 seems about right. The last time I played a Yoshi with Zelda, I didn't have too much trouble.

 

[bigman40]

It's not super armor either. Yoshi only has heavy armor in his DJ.

 

[Matador]

*Sigh*

I KNEW I should've replied yesterday. Too late now. What you guys put down as the ratio for the matchup is fine with me, I'm only concerned about how the matchup works.

Overall, nice discussion. I can leave without saying I hate any of you guys. I especially <3 Successor of Raphael for the Marth boards reference, lolz

 

[Kataefi]

Uhh zelda kills retardedly early cuz of her lightning kicks, i believe she can down tilt trip to sweetspot bair.

So glad to see this being implemented =D Dtilt trip > buffered sweetspot bair is quite technical finger-wise (for me personally) but actually kills yoshi pretty early when fresh. I've been utilising this to some success.

The sweetspot occurs at any point he trips... and iirc Successor of Raphael tested that yoshi dies from the centre of FD (with perfect DI) at 74%. Considering he doesn't pop up until around 100% due to his weight, a trip anywhere from 74 - 100% is guaranteed to kill.

 

[Poltergust]

Having Zelda as my first secondary, I know this match-up quite well. Everyone who says that this match-up is 60:40 Zelda is indeed correct.

Let's start with what Yoshi has on Zelda:

-Better aerials
-Much better edge game
-Pivot-grab.
-Jab (is a great move to use against Zelda, Yoshi needs to out-space her to win)
-Better recovery

Now with Zelda's advantages:

-FAR better ground game
-Better projectile (in this particular match-up, at least)
-Nayru's Love (is a great move to use against Yoshi since he has bad OOS options)
-Much better KO moves (although a couple of them are SDI-able)
-Better throws
-Yoshi is easy to Lightning Kick (for some reason...)

The only place where Yoshi can truly dominate Zelda is when she is over the edge, where he can set up a great edge-guard. Everywhere else, though, he has to look out for her dangerous attacks.

Also, Zelda can't gimp Yoshi, so don't even bother trying. I'd recommend using Din's Fire to tack on damage if Yoshi is recovering low (he'll most likely up-B to the edge, so he is vulnerable during the move) or use a u-air or Lightning Kick if you can predict him if he is recovering high.

Oh, and don't switch to Sheik. She's a neutral match-up, so it'll only make it harder for you.

 

[Kataefi]

Poltergust?... the name sounds so familiar...

Also... just a question... how long are yoshi's super armour frames when he second jumps?

EDIT:: I think I have you on my online friends list. I'm NC btw, we happen to have an ongoing green/yellow connection considering you're so far away from me.

 

[powuh_of_PIE]

Just as a note: the only sure-fire way to beat Yoshi's grab shenanigans is to time NL's invincibilty frames right, it hits his outstretched head afterwards and saves you from being eaten. It's still tough, but a much better use for NL than reflecting eggs.

 

[Half-Split Soul]

Also, Zelda can't gimp Yoshi, so don't even bother trying.

Agreed, She really can´t harm recovering Yoshi with her aerials, it´s much better to stay on the stage where she has more options. Exception would of course be the situation where Zelda player predicts Yoshi´s egg toss timing and goes for a sweetspot, but the angle for that is propably going to be very difficult.

 

[Poltergust]

Poltergust?... the name sounds so familiar...

Also... just a question... how long are yoshi's super armour frames when he second jumps?

EDIT:: I think I have you on my online friends list. I'm NC btw, we happen to have an ongoing green/yellow connection considering you're so far away from me.

NC? I'll check and see if I still have you in my friends list later (playing Metroid Prime now). Maybe we can play some Zelda vs. Yoshi matches and Zelda dittos.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Agreed, She really can´t harm recovering Yoshi with her aerials, it´s much better to stay on the stage where she has more options. Exception would of course be the situation where Zelda player predicts Yoshi´s egg toss timing and goes for a sweetspot, but the angle for that is propably going to be very difficult.

I've used nayru's invincibility before when he attacks out of his double jump... but that's **** hard, impractical and situational at best...

 

[RoyalBlood]

Aerial Nayru's Love works if he's not TOO close since they return in the same arc, in the slim chance in which he decides to Yoshi Bomb Zelda will always win either with Up smash that negates it completely or Up tilt when both of you trade

If he's recovering low stand by the edge and down tilt/smash, Yoshi has a little trouble getting out of stumbling animation with his not so practical second jump

Spam Footstool jumps

::Basic Knowledge

 

[Brinzy]

It's hard to edgeguard Yoshi with kicks, and it's even harder to footstool him. I would just force an on-stage recovery and punish... or just use Din's.

 

[Poltergust]

How the heck is foot-stooling Yoshi "basic knowledge"? It's not even good knowledge. Yoshi WON'T be foot-stooled. Especially not by someone as slow and floaty as Zelda.

 

[RoyalBlood]

It'll obviously happen once in a while, Yoshi has trouble meteor cancelling in my experience ( second jump weird properties or maybe i'm incompetent with him; specially in knowledge about his playstyle); there's little similitude between them yet something in common.

It's a viable strategy but not a reliable one

PS:: No, I'm not contradicting myself, you're not understanding my post

 

[Poltergust]

Yoshi is actually one of the best meteor cancellers in the game. Yoshi's double-jump completely stops all downward momentum. I survived spikes at ridiculous percentages as Yoshi (Zelda's d-air at 80%, Diddy's d-air at 140%...). =P

EDIT: And no, Zelda won't foot-stool Yoshi because she doesn't have the capabilities to without putting herself at great risk. She's falls too slowly, has a below-average recovery, and is out-ranged in the air.

 

[RoyalBlood]

Oh, I see now, I'll trust your word

FOOTSTOOLING WILL HAPPEN

Ahem, if the Zelda is keen on it, it'll happen (not so often though)

One last thing, stumbling can also be cancelled by Yoshi's second jump or does it differ with meteor's properties?

EDIT:: Are Yoshi's aerials fast enough so in conjuction with their range they're able to pose a threat?

Range is good but without speed :/

 

[GreyFox86]

xD now now RoyalBlood. I'm sure you'll get a footstool on Yoshi in good time.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

i've only footstolled a Yoshi 2x, it really doesn't happen often at all, you'll see Ganons Utilt connect more than that

 

[Poltergust]

Yoshi's b-air and n-air is better than any of Zelda's aerials, so Zelda would be fighting a losing battle if she tries to fight Yoshi in the air. She should really only go to the air if Yoshi is above her or if she wants to land a Lightning Kick.

 

[Brinzy]

Wait, why is Yoshi's nair better than Zelda's aerials? In this specific match-up, all he can really do with nair is rise with it. Anything else gets him hit.

As for bair, lightning kicks trade with that, too, but I guess it's a better aerial.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

our nair vs. yoshi's nair... which has more priority?

I'm pretty sure yoshi's will win out as soon as it comes out, but if it's hanging there, I think ours wins. disjoints and all.

Yoshi's bair has *****in range. Heck, he can use it to approach a grounded zelda. that's impressive.