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Zelda doubles -what can team Zelda + ____ do? (Update notice, now discussing G&W!)

Ussi

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Sweet, I have some experience with this team. A little outdated, but neither character has really changed much, so I'll contribute what I can.

It's not the world's greatest team, but it's pretty **** fun. I'll write more later.


Her old partner arrives :laugh:

This team is meh XD it has its strong points, they both have good killing power. Heck I remember KLo got more kills than me that one battle :mad: So killing is something to never worry about.

I know I would try to follow up KLo's attacks, like Zelda usmash > Ike uair, and Zelda dtilt > Ike fsmash

This team is weak to gimping -_- and Olimar so both of them totally destroy this team. Basically MK and Olimar make this team unviable. You'd think hey its doubles, it's different, Olimar is Ike's and Zelda's worst MU, neither of them can do anything about him :laugh:

Zelda can hide behind Ike and spam din's if the Ike can take on the other 2 and prevent them from getting to Zelda.

When it comes to normal tourneys, me and KLo's best record was win 2, lose 2 in doubles.

IMO i think this is a great low tier team :bee:
 

Nidtendofreak

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Can I say "Gimp City" Here? It would almost be as bad as a team of Links.....okay, not THAT bad, but you get the point. Both are going to die mainly through gimps, especially against MKs.

I would assume Ike would be taking the brunt of the attacks when possible, with Zelda in the back picking off foes with Din's Fire. While Ike can hold two people back with his fair, nair, and jabs, he can't do it forever. And it's somewhat hard for him to pull people off of his partner. Jab has a bad habit of hitting both people. Most Ikes end up using Dash Attack to pull it off, but at higher %s that could kill Zelda in the process. Ouch. His throws just don't sent the opponent far enough away to work well until higher %s for this situation, except for Dthrow which would take too long. Also, I'm not sure how well Zelda would be able to pull people off of Ike if he got overwhelmed, which can easily happen without constant, well placed Din's Fires.

However, this team does have some merits. Ike's Bthrow can easily throw opponent's into Zelda's Fsmash or Usmash for quick KOs, or Zelda's Dtilt to Ike's Fsmash to make the opponent cry like a little baby. This team should also have no trouble killing. At all.

I hope Zelda is good at Pirate Ship. >_> It would make CPing a snap. Delfino works for the same reason: water spiking with Ike. Just get the opponent into the water while Ike is using Aether, and they are dead. They can't make it back unless Ike messes up, or the stage changes in a way that forces Ike to get back to safety before killing.
 

Teh Brettster

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I think these two have about summed it up.
Gimping is ouch, though you do have the option of Din's Fire to save Ike when possible.
MK and Oli hurt.
Our Fthrow and Bthrow are perfect setups for your Utilt kill/other moves if you see fit.
Dtilt lock to Ike Fsmash is SMEXY.
And a fun thing about your Fsmash and Usmash is that it gives Ike time to react to follow up with an Uair, which I use as a KO move a lot now.

CP places with low ceilings, platforms or water-spiking opportunities. Yum yum.
I suppose I could see this being a fun team.
 

Ussi

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Oh this team IS fun :laugh: just gets gimped hard :urg: Hence why I used Pikachu when an Olimar or MK was on the other team, or when i just get gimped hard.
 

Half-Split Soul

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I'm back, so expect the OP to have major update soon (not today though). I might also move to next character if Ike doesn't get more discussion.
 

GodAtHand

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Tried this team in a low tier tournament and only lost to the teams the got first and second I believe... Zelda and Ike have some good setups like Din's an ariel opponent while Ike is charging a UpSmash and they will either have to get hit by Din's or get hit by UpSmash right after their air dodge...

One thing I hate about this team is that they can't run to eachothers aid. There were times where I would get cluster****ed and need someone to help me really fast... and Ike was all like "Lemme be really slow and unmovable!" so that kinda sucked. New York allows Sonic in their Low Tiers because they have a lot of Sonic mains, and he made this team difficult to deal with. Any really fast character will give this team a very hard time because they are both incredibly slow.
 

Half-Split Soul

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Updated two first posts, added four more summaries and changed layout. Too tired to check them for errors right now so tell me if something look stupid. We'll move on to the next character later tonight soon so if you have any wishes tell them now.

@Jiggs: Zamus was already discussed. Any other suggestions?
 

Half-Split Soul

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If somebody happens to find some videos of some of the teams we've talked about please give me the links so I can add them to the summaries.

@Jiggs: I don't think anyone else reads them either lol.

Also, PT is fine by me. Let's talk some pokemon! (OP has been updated and trainers have been summoned)
 

Sonic The Hedgedawg

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Well, as long as you are willing to play as Zelda/Sheik

this is probably the most diverse team out there . . . SO adaptable..... and very susceptible to edgehogginf

D:
 

Bomber7

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I've never played with a Zelda in teams before but I do have a friends who is very skilled with her and I have played him before and these are my basic thoughts:

Squirtle- From what I can tell, both Zelda and Squirtle have some pretty good aerials and having good control in the air, only thing I'd have to worry about is an accidental sweet sex kick by Z and send Squirtle flying off screen for a possible KO. Plus Squirtle can cover Zelda.

Ivy- Dins fire + Razor leaf would be a good spacing combo? Ivysuar is more to the ground I figure than zelda, but either way, I figure that Zelda can have the air so long as Ivy holds the ground, plus Ivy is like an anti aerial gun. I'd only be worried about accidentally hitting Zelda and sending her flying.

Charizard- ehh imo takes up quite a bit of space and I can think a Zelda-Charizard team would be flexible.

Those are just thoughts, they may not be accurate at all but those are my thoughts based on observation.
 

Bomber7

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Well concerning sheik, I have a friend who plays her/him and I've never had flexibility problems when teaming with him. So Sheik I don't see much of a problem when teaming with however when it comes to Zelda, I only see Charizard a small problem when it comes to flexibility.
 

T-block

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My main team partner is a Sheik and we do all right...we get gimped really easily though. I don't actually have any experience teaming with Zelda, but I think Zelda/Squirtle would be really cool. Squirtle can get in there and Zelda can support with Din's...it could wreck with a little practice.
 

MrEh

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What you should do when paired with each Pokemon.


Zelda+Squirtle = avoid getting gimped

Zelda+Ivysaur = avoid getting gimped

Zelda+Charizard = kill things
 

zeldspazz

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A team with 6 different combinations possible O.O

Thats pretty sexy if ya ask me.

Im thinking that Squirtle + Zelda team would be the best or, if we are incorporating Sheik, Charizard + Sheik would be the best combinations since in both cases one is the powerhouse and one is the damage racker.
 

KuroganeHammer

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Bulletseed>Lightning Kick. GG.
This. This. This. THIS!!! :laugh:

Yeah.

Squirtle can kill stupidly early with his Dthrow too.

So I think all of them are really good at working together, because none of them have any trouble killing.
 

Half-Split Soul

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Im thinking that Squirtle + Zelda team would be the best
I agree with this one. Squirtle is mostly air player and likes to use his version of WoP for spacing and approaching. This really gives Zelda a chance to support him from further away with Din. Squirtle is also good at damaging and edgeguarding while Zelda has very good set of finishers. Last but not least the turtle is small enough to often avoid accidental LKs from Zelda. Sadly he also dies very soon if she does hit him on accident.

Ivysaur + Zelda team has one huge issue: all that is needed to kill the other member of this team is accidental hit from Zelda's D-smash and someone hanging from the edge. Even if you also hit your enemies with the D-smash they'll probably just be sent into perfect position for an edgehog. This combination is also misssing good approaching options, but on the other hand it has excellent spacing tools and powerful moves in it's posession.

I also find Charizard to be somewhat troublesome team partner. He's kinda like Bowser: wherever and whenever you attack it's going to hit your partner. Most troublesome this is when trying to sweetspot LKs: Charizard is most likely bigger than either of your opponents so chances are you're going to hit him. As a good side they both have lots of power by their side. Rock smash + Din is also excellent combination for short-time camping.
 

Rogue

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Zelda + Pokemon Trainer... I love the irony that this is the most versatile team possible (besides double PT!).

It's not a good team though. I think the presence of Ivysaur alone makes it junk; terrible double's partner. Whoever said Seed + Lightning Kick, that would be pretty funny to see. It sure would be difficult though..

I can't wait until the Zelda/Zelda discussion comes. I have experience with that team at a tournament, with my good buddy (Corms) who's far more well known in IL than I am. We did it for kicks (har har pun), and that's what we got.
 

Kataefi

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We've done the zelda/zelda discussion!

I suggest you read a few pages back, and if you have a lot of experience you can help half-split write the summary for that team.
 

Half-Split Soul

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Yes, if you know douple Zelda team well and want to help just PM me or something. I'd greatly appreciate it since I don't know anything about Zelda.

Oops -_-'


But seriously, PM me if you want to help.



Anyways, does somebody feel like there's still something that should be said about PT?
 

Bestiarius

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Well, here's my two cents:

Ivysaur: I always find that Zelda's smashes are pretty awesome, but y'all would be better judges of that than me. Ivysaur is a beast at racking damage, so that Bullet Seed + Lightning Kick wouldn't be the only good combo; Zelda's smashes would wreck too. Plus, Zelda has sick aerials, which go great with Ivysaur since Ivy is all geared about anti-air. Zelda can dominate the air and Ivy can eliminate her competition. If you match Ivy with Sheik, you'd have one heck of a damage-racking team.

Charizard: Charizard is a major powerhouse when it comes to both damage and killing ability. Though his aerials are decent, they are, well, decent, not much more on the stage. Off, he has a spike, but he's not near as good in the air as Zelda. Plus, Charizard is great at edgeguarding with his spike, Flamethrower, and his moves that hit below the edge like f-smash. If Zelda can get somebody off the edge, Zard can finish them. If you combo Zard with Sheik, you'd have a great mix of speed and damage racking with raw power and killing potential.

Squirtle: Zelda's aerials mixed with Squirtle's could take over the air completely. Squirtle could rack damage well and Zelda's smashes would be perfect finishers. Or, Squirtle could be a frontman while Zelda used Din's Fire. I think Squirtle mixed with Sheik would be strait-up terrifying. Both are insanely fast and rack damage well. It would be hard for any other team to keep up well enough.

Overall, I think that Zelda + PT is a great idea for teams. It is the most versatile team possible, plus each combination has specific strengths that make sure that this flexibility does not come at the price of effectiveness. Just my two cents.
 

zeldspazz

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Well, here's my two cents:

Ivysaur: I always find that Zelda's smashes are pretty awesome, but y'all would be better judges of that than me. Ivysaur is a beast at racking damage, so that Bullet Seed + Lightning Kick wouldn't be the only good combo; Zelda's smashes would wreck too. Plus, Zelda has sick aerials, which go great with Ivysaur since Ivy is all geared about anti-air. Zelda can dominate the air and Ivy can eliminate her competition. If you match Ivy with Sheik, you'd have one heck of a damage-racking team.

Charizard: Charizard is a major powerhouse when it comes to both damage and killing ability. Though his aerials are decent, they are, well, decent, not much more on the stage. Off, he has a spike, but he's not near as good in the air as Zelda. Plus, Charizard is great at edgeguarding with his spike, Flamethrower, and his moves that hit below the edge like f-smash. If Zelda can get somebody off the edge, Zard can finish them. If you combo Zard with Sheik, you'd have a great mix of speed and damage racking with raw power and killing potential.

Squirtle: Zelda's aerials mixed with Squirtle's could take over the air completely. Squirtle could rack damage well and Zelda's smashes would be perfect finishers. Or, Squirtle could be a frontman while Zelda used Din's Fire. I think Squirtle mixed with Sheik would be strait-up terrifying. Both are insanely fast and rack damage well. It would be hard for any other team to keep up well enough.

Overall, I think that Zelda + PT is a great idea for teams. It is the most versatile team possible, plus each combination has specific strengths that make sure that this flexibility does not come at the price of effectiveness. Just my two cents.
Well I must say, we dont get optimism like that around here much XD
 

Bestiarius

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If that's a good thing, thanks. I used to play against a Zelda who was the most annoying person I have ever played...and that's a compliment in this game.
 

zeldspazz

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If that's a good thing, thanks. I used to play against a Zelda who was the most annoying person I have ever played...and that's a compliment in this game.

No its a good thing, we were just having a conversation about how much we rag on Zelda actually XD The only thing is I noticed you commented on Zelda's "good" aerial game a lot. Her areial game sorta sucks though :p
 

Bestiarius

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Well, all of her aerials pack a lot of power. Or, at least the Lightning Kicks. That's two aerials that are great KO moves. Not many characters can boast that. Then, her up air has a massive, explosive (and, I think disjointed) hitbox. And then dair's a spike. The only one that I think sucks is nair. But, hey, I'm not a Zelda main. I just know that her aerials all have potential to kill really low on PT, so I usually avoid her in the air. Like I said, just my two cents. I still think the team has amazingly sick potential. You know, in a good way.
 

zeldspazz

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Well, all of her aerials pack a lot of power. Or, at least the Lightning Kicks. That's two aerials that are great KO moves. Not many characters can boast that.

Yes thats true, but they require a sweetspot which is very hard to connect with anyone shorter than her, as do 3 of her aerials, she completely useless from attack below her, she is light and floaty causing juggling, so if she's trying to get back to ground while people are trying to hit her from below, its not good, since shes completely useless below her. Her nair is her only damage racker, but it has poor range, doesnt set anything up, and its priority isnt near her feet area where she needs it most. Dair is very hard to sweetspot and doesnt work on a grounded opponent. Her uair is very powerful, but it has poor range. So, theres more to her aerial game than her situational LK :ohwell: In this team
see how slipped in the topic so this isnt spam XD
she will mostly be supporting with Dins and Squirtle (best parter of the 3) will be going in for the hand-to-hand combat. She wont be using her aerials much Im afriad unless the player knows they'll connect and KO.

EDIT: I thought I should say that I agree with you that this team has potential :)
Or, Squirtle could be a frontman while Zelda used Din's Fire
^This is perfect IMO
 

Bestiarius

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Well, I don't pretend to be an expert. Like I said, i'm no Zelda main. But, she does have really good KO options, and pretty much everything I said still applies, even if her aerials are situational.
 

MrEh

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But, she does have really good KO options, and pretty much everything I said still applies, even if her aerials are situational.
No she doesn't. She has strong KO options. Not good ones.

Having lots of ways to kill things is moot when you have to work hard to land those moves.
 

Bestiarius

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Ok, true, but you're missing my point. I think MOST of what I said about her and PT having potential to work together really well still applies.
 

MrEh

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I think MOST of what I said about her and PT having potential to work together really well still applies.
Every character can work with another as long as there's good synergy between the players themselves. That doesn't mean the team will be effective though.

A team with Zelda and PT is total fail.
 

MrEh

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It's far and away the most versatile team in Brawl. Please explain how that is total fail.
Simple. You say it's versatile.

The only reason it's versatile is that there are 3 different Pokemon. The downside is that you can never use the right Pokemon for every situation, since it's not safe to switch. So generally, you're stuck using the same Pokemon until you die and auto-switch.

Switching in the middle of a fight is stupid. You'll get punished hard.

Plus, all three of the Pokemon simply aren't that good characters. If you decide to team with Zelda, then that's a terrible team.
 

Bestiarius

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Simple. You say it's versatile.

The only reason it's versatile is that there are 3 different Pokemon. The downside is that you can never use the right Pokemon for every situation, since it's not safe to switch. So generally, you're stuck using the same Pokemon until you die and auto-switch.

Switching in the middle of a fight is stupid. You'll get punished hard.

Plus, all three of the Pokemon simply aren't that good characters. If you decide to team with Zelda, then that's a terrible team.
Ok, you clearly don't know PT very well. Let's start at the top.

First, it's not just versatile because of the three different pokemon. Zelda is also multiple characters, both with very distinctive and diametrically opposite playstyles. That's 5 different characters as a team instead of the usual 2, for a total of 6 different possible combinations which means that this team can adapt and change to fit the situation.

Next, you cannot just say flat out that switching is not safe. If you're an absolute idiot, you're right; it isn't safe. If you know how to switch correctly it's perfectly safe. You don't switch near somebody. You switch after dealing some knockback, which is pretty simple for every character in the game. If you mained PT or played any good ones, you'd know that switching isn't so terrible. If you switch right, you won't get punished hard.

Finally, you say all three pokemon are not good characters. If all three were Ganondorf, I'd understand, but PT is not just flat out bad. (?Squirtle has one of the best aerial games in Brawl, plus his attacks on the ground are also extremely fast. Ivysaur is amazing at racking damage and has an amazing spacing game. Charizard is a huge offensive powerhouse. He can edgeguard just as good or better than any other character in the game. And if you are just saying they suck because of fatigue, you need to know that it isn't all that big of a deal.

I just think you need to know PT a bit better before you just flat out dismiss him as bad.
 

MrEh

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Ok, you clearly don't know PT very well. Let's start at the top.
Yeah, because you've seen my Pokemon Trainer before and you can make that distinction.


First, it's not just versatile because of the three different pokemon. Zelda is also multiple characters, both with very distinctive and diametrically opposite playstyles. That's 5 different characters as a team instead of the usual 2, for a total of 6 different possible combinations which means that this team can adapt and change to fit the situation.
No offense dude, but having 6 different combination is still useless. You know why?

You cannot change the combination on the fly without wasting time. Yes, theoretically you can have the right combination for any occasion. The downside is that everytime one of your Pokemon dies, your combination reverts to a sub-par one. And in order to get it back, you have to switch. And if you do, you're putting yourself in positions to be punished. Plus, it doesn't matter if you have 5 different characters. Since all of those characters suck in competitive play. It doesn't matter how varied your team is. Even if you have the best combination for the given situation, a team of high tiers will still run all over PT and Zelda.


Next, you cannot just say flat out that switching is not safe. If you're an absolute idiot, you're right; it isn't safe. If you know how to switch correctly it's perfectly safe. You don't switch near somebody. You switch after dealing some knockback, which is pretty simple for every character in the game. If you mained PT or played any good ones, you'd know that switching isn't so terrible. If you switch right, you won't get punished hard.
This is doubles. Not singles.

In singles, it's a viable strategy to knock your opponent far away and switch. But in doubles, you have to worry about the 2nd opponent. You cannot switch without being punished. (Unless you and your partner have insane synergy. Or you're on Smashville.) And you cannot expect Zelda to keep your opponent off your back. If you do, then that's overly optimistic.


Finally, you say all three pokemon are not good characters.
They aren't. Why are you even challenging me on this? The Pokemon simply are not good characters. They are not the worst characters in the game, but they are not good. They are not average. They are sub par.


Squirtle has one of the best aerial games in Brawl
No he doesn't. He has a good aerial game in comparison to Charizard and Ivysaur. MK, Gdub, Wario, and Marth have good air games. Squirtle's air game is decent, but saying it's one of the best makes me question exactly how much you know about this game. Squirtle gets utterly shut down by any character with range.


plus his attacks on the ground are also extremely fast
That doesn't make him good. A lot of his ground attacks have no range and lack priority.


Ivysaur is amazing at racking damage and has an amazing spacing game.
Ivysaur is only amazing at racking up damage if you run into Bullet Seed. If you take away that, Ivysaur is the worst of all the Pokemon. He's total deadweight against many characters, and has a terrible recovery. If Ivysaur was a standalone character, she might be the 2nd worst character in the game.


He can edgeguard just as good or better than any other character in the game.
So that's why you think he's good? Because he can edgeguard?

Everyone can edgeguard. Admittedly, some characters do it better then others, but Charizard is nothing special. It would be great if he actually moved fast in the air. But guess what? He doesn't.


And if you are just saying they suck because of fatigue, you need to know that it isn't all that big of a deal.
Fatigue has nothing to do with why they're bad, although it helps if you want to camp them.


I just think you need to know PT a bit better before you just flat out dismiss him as bad.
I think you need to know what you're talking about, before acting like I'm incompetent.
 

Bestiarius

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I'm sorry, but I do know what I'm talking about. Why do you even comment on these boards if you think all the characters being discussed are terrible?

You can't say a character would be terrible if they didn't have a certain move Bowser would be much worse without fortress. Marth would be much worse without fair. And a character doesn't have to run into Bullet Seed to get *****. You'd be surprised how easy it is to hit someone with it. And Squirtle does have an amazing aerial game and he can easily combo his moves to rack up damage very quickly. True every character can edgeguard, but Charizard is also an offensive powerhouse who can go head to head with Bowser. He even has an advantage against him, and not because he's much faster, like every other character that has an advantage (except 3D).

You say I need to see your PT in order to judge how well you know him. You say he's bad, so why would you bother playing as him. Plus, you must have never seen a PT used properly to make the statements you do about him.

But enough. I think it's obvious that neither you nor I will get either of us to change our minds, so we should be mature and end this to let other people give their opinions.
 
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