Zelda doubles -what can team Zelda + ____ do? (Update notice, now discussing G&W!)

[Matador]

Inferno...you just like...echoed my post. Even picked the same link XD

 

[fromundaman]

gimmicky and having now part in a serious team tournament:

have mario fireball zelda in the back repeatedly while she uses din's machine gun :D

it's fun even if it's just for messing around.

Wait, does Din's detonate if interrupted?

 

[Inferno3044]

Inferno...you just like...echoed my post. Even picked the same link XD

1. I didn't really read your post. I just kinda gave an opinion.
2. Cape **** is ****!!! I thought Usmash would work, but wasn't 100% sure.

 

[KayLo!]

Wait, does Din's detonate if interrupted?

It does, but you lose control of it if you get hit..... it just keeps going until it hits an obstacle or reaches its max length. You can sort of get around that by angling it towards the floor, though, so it'll explode sooner and possibly still hit whoever hit you.

But it sounds like your "tactic" is mostly for the lulz, lol.

EDIT: I just reread and wasn't sure if you meant if Zelda's interrupted or Din's itself...... @.@

In the second case, no, it won't explode until a) you let go of the b button, b) it reaches its max length, or c) it hits a solid obstacle, i.e. a floor or a wall. Things like Castle Siege's statues and LM's pillars don't count. Enemy attacks, including reflectors, also don't count.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

But it sounds like your "tactic" is mostly for the lulz, lol.

yeah it is. but it's really fun when they don't expect it. It's like a flame spewing wall :D

It MIGHT be good if it didn't require that Zelda take a rather obscene amount of damage.



As for zelda/mario team otherwise.

It's probably quite good. Zelda's a pretty kickin' teammate even if she's not so great 1 v. 1. She probably shouldn't be allowed in low tier doubles actually...

 

[Half-Split Soul]

have mario fireball zelda in the back repeatedly while she uses din's machine gun :D

Can´t wait till Sonic discussion (spring Din ftw)

About the cape ****, it could actually be more useful for this team than it is to many others (if it works for any attack) since Zelda has many long-lasting killers. Alongside the already mentioned U-smash her LKs kill early and have enough hitstun for Mario to actually get close from a short distance and cape the enemy.

 

[BoTastic!]

Cape+Zelda's Usmash=Deadly cape ****. The duration of the move gives Mario enough time to come and cape the oponent before it is over increasing that knock back greatly.

 

[hippiedude92]

Charging zelda fsmash and just push her with fludd and release, = good results lol.

wow 2 day bump ggs. might as well make my post useful then. Btw INCREDIBLE idea on this, marios should have this as well.

I personally seeing Zelda at the sidelines spamming her din's fire, and Mario rushing in for the damage, the problem as stated before is that he isn't much of a stock tanker/holder to an extent. Each character will DEFINITELY need to save each other when they are hit offstage. Mario can watch his back and front with fireballs and his aerials while still maintaining a position where he can save Zelda at some points.

Also mario's dthrow isn't that half bad for setting up Zelda's sweetspot fair/bair/dair spike.

 

[Half-Split Soul]

It seems that Mario is finished.

Btw INCREDIBLE idea on this, marios should have this as well.

Thank you! Just remember that the idea for this thread isn't mine, I just made it.


The next character is Mario's original arch nemesis Donkey Kong. This is also the last update from me for a while. For the next month or so this thread will be lead by Kataefi.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Zelda and DK seems a redundant team to me: two heavy hitters. At least we can fire din's through him.

I'd just say beware small stages because he's really huge and we have really big hitboxes.... you can see the potential problem here.

 

[goodkid]

This isn't the best teammate for Zelda. He's so big and he'll get in the way of our smashes/aerials, but this can be a good powerhouse team. Kills should be easy.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

This isn't the best teammate for Zelda. He's so big and he'll get in the way of our smashes/aerials, but this can be a good powerhouse team. Kills should be easy.

yes well HE also has giant hitboxes on some of his smashes... need I point out how poorly Zelda reponds to getting hit by one of those by accident

 

[JigglyZelda003]

can DK put someone on his back and Zelda can LK them w/o hitting DK?

 

[Kataefi]

half-split when you go on your summer break post here or anywhere suitable and let us know so we can all keep this alive. It's a great thread!

 

[powuh_of_PIE]

Zelda and DK... my two mains once again come up in the same post, this time together. ^ ^ I love this place ^ ^

A lot of what has already been said is true - if the two are not in constant awareness of each others' spacing, they will hit each other HARD. DK is the easiest target for LKs in the game, and Zelda's too light to take many PAWNCHes or smashes. For this team to work they are going to have to know how to move around each other to add their power together instead of subtracting them from each other. This is of course true for every team, but more so for this team than others.

However, the bright side is that while both characters are on the killing side, they are there for very different reasons. Zelda is a killer because of her super-powered aerials and high range and priority which allow her to harass with smashes just enough to get the opponent into LK range.
DK is a killer for very different reasons - EVERYTHING he does piles on damage like crazy. He doesn't have a fresh move that does less than 9% (if you count the AA jabs together) and his most powerful move, the 9-wind Giant Punch, kills Mario at the center of FD at about 50%.

Because DK's killing ability comes from a combination of a high-damage moveset and a wide variety of killing moves as opposed to Zelda's precise but powerful LKs, DK can take on the damage racking role quite easily. DK Dtilt trip to Down+B does at least 20%, and often it takes two or more Dtilts to get the trip so this comes close to 30% guaranteed damage. Throw in his grounded Spinning Kong, which has SA frames and does 36% if all the hits connect, and DK can put an opponent at LK kill range in a matter of seconds.

Also noteworthy is DK's momentum braking: his Up+B behaves the same as G&W's bucket in that it stops all momentum, allowing DK to survive to insane percents. However, this puts him into fall special, which severely limits his options coming back. Throw a Din's at him, however, and he's back and raring to go. This makes DK the gold standard for stock tanking.

As for kill setups, well...

Zelda start:

Zelda Dtilt lock --> DK face-butt (see sig) --> ANYTHING lol
Zelda Dtilt lock --> DK PAWNCH/Fsmash
Zelda Usmash --> DK Dair/Fair/Face-butt --> Zelda Dsmash

DK start:

DK Dtilt trip --> Zelda Usmash --> see above
DK Dtilt trip --> Zelda Dtilt lock --> see above
DK cargo Dthrow --> Zelda bair/fair
DK cargo Dthrow offstage --> Zelda dair (Cinderella combo)
DK down+B --> Zelda dair --> DK down+B --> Zelda footstool (too soon for dair again I think) -->DK down+b (hard to do but if the whole thing lands it nets 60%+!!!!)

Bottom line is that DK will be the more active of the two, getting in the fray and trading hits, while Zelda covers his blind spots with her defensive abilities. When it comes time to kill, DK and Zelda both have the tools to make this job easier for the other, either by locking them down or by placing them neatly in a predetermined spot. If they can work each others' presences into their playstyle, say by practicing together for a few hours (seriously guys, even if you just teamed up, go play a few friendlies. It's not as hard as it seems if you play mindfully of your partner and vice versa.), they will find the kills coming faster and easier than either of them could do on their own.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

how hard is it to escape being caught between Zelda and DK's Dtilts?

 

[powuh_of_PIE]

how hard is it to escape being caught between Zelda and DK's Dtilts?

Not sure, but it doesn't last forever. Even if they do escape, I'd imagine they'd take at least 2 hits from each of them. Also, Zelda's will pop them up after a while, at which point DK should Dsmash; it's his shortest smash so he has the least chance to also hit Zelda. DK's has horizontal trajectory, so Zelda can Dsmash if he hits them too far.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Zelda's doesn't pup them up until about 100 damage... if they get caught in it early, are you saying that's the first thing they can escape from?

 

[goodkid]

Now that I see the possibilities, this combo could work. Zelda/DK would need more practice more so than other pairs.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Incredibly concious spacing...

so, basically, your enemies have to know how to work crossups. This team could really have problems with speedy characters like sonic that'll weave between them and get them to cross into each others danger zones.

 

[AzNfinesse]

it'd be too easy to stage cp this team. yoshi's ftl.

this team has a lot of good potential i suppose...DK's aerials are AMAZING. plus we all know zelda's exceptional ground and anti-air game. not to mention both have immense kill potential.

the biggest issue i see here is the capability of racking up damage. yes both are heavy hitters, but as stated before, their abilities to rack up damage have HUGE hitboxes. DK gets in the way of zelda too much, and DK can accidentally kill zelda at insanely low percentages. this would require an IMMENSE amount of coordination, communication, and precise execution.

 

[powuh_of_PIE]

it'd be too easy to stage cp this team. yoshi's ftl.

this team has a lot of good potential i suppose...DK's aerials are AMAZING. plus we all know zelda's exceptional ground and anti-air game. not to mention both have immense kill potential.

the biggest issue i see here is the capability of racking up damage. yes both are heavy hitters, but as stated before, their abilities to rack up damage have HUGE hitboxes. DK gets in the way of zelda too much, and DK can accidentally kill zelda at insanely low percentages. this would require an IMMENSE amount of coordination, communication, and precise execution.

DK can rack up damage quite well as long as he has about 1/4 of FD to work with. Zelda can usually defend well enough to prevent the other partner from interfering until the necessary damage is reached, at which point they would switch. Kills should be left to Zelda with DK lending a hand as needed.

Also AzN, Yoshi's is a great stage for DK as he has an AT that only works on sloped edges ala Yoshi's and Pictochat that allows him to transfer his invincibility frames on the aerial Up+B to the grounded Up+B. He covers about half the stage and cannot be touched. Zelda does get owned, tho =(

 

[AzNfinesse]

Also AzN, Yoshi's is a great stage for DK as he has an AT that only works on sloped edges ala Yoshi's and Pictochat that allows him to transfer his invincibility frames on the aerial Up+B to the grounded Up+B. He covers about half the stage and cannot be touched. Zelda does get owned, tho =(

i was not just referring to the fact that zelda gets gimped hardcore in this stage...but the size of the stage itself. i've teamed with a DK before for fun, and we ended up going to yoshi's, and we kept running into each other. it was a disaster. Not to mention, on this stage, DK relies a lot on the ledge for the infinite frames from his upB, he could easily gimp zelda on accident (and it has happened).

HOWEVER

there are extremely excellent stages for this dynamic duo that we used. These stages include:

Luigi's Mansion (DK on the inside, Zelda on the outside...IT'S A TRAP!!!!!!!!)
Norfair (DK is naturally good on this stage and zelda gets the great accuracy with her LK)
CS (Zelda can refresh her attacks on stage 2 and DK can camp the sides there....IT'S A TRAP!!!!!)
Battlefield (Great neutral stage for both players)
Smashville (Another Excellent netural stage)

These are some of the good ones I found to be an easy CP with this duo. If possible, ban yoshi's, lylat, or japes (zelda ges gimped hardcore here, and strangely, DK isn't fantastic at this stage either).

and as you said, pie, yea this team does have DK's damage racking capabilities, but you also must remember that this strategy would rely almost completely on you racking up damage and zelda playin the most defensive game possible while trying to avoid the giant monkey flying all over the place and trying not to LK his GIGANTIC hitbox. Like most teams, this requires an immense amount of coordination, but more coordination than most teams because of that major risk of an accidental Team Kill on both character's.

when i did team up with the DK, i was pleasantly surprised. This combo has nothing on snake/zelda, but it's still a viable combination.

 

[powuh_of_PIE]

If we're done with DK, can we move on? I nominate Peach, my gf mains her and we're looking for some fresh ideas. Also Pretty Princess Pie Power is the best team name evah. =P

 

[JigglyZelda003]

im all up for hearing about peach in teams

 

[Darkmusician]

If we're done with DK, can we move on? I nominate Peach, my gf mains her and we're looking for some fresh ideas. Also Pretty Princess Pie Power is the best team name evah. =P

K0reanBobbyQ > all

 

[GodAtHand]

Myself and Peachkid go Zelda and Peach. And we are called "Two girls one Upsmash"

It might be better... ^_^

 

[KayLo!]

Say No to Thunderstones (for double Pika team). For the Valentine's Day tournament on AiB: Shockolate Thunder.

Peach + Zelda sounds good. I've done this team a few times, but only in friendlies.

 

[Kataefi]

Cool okay! Well half-split has gone on a little break, he emailed me to look after this thread for him so with that we shall move on to princess PEEEEACH!

Double princess team - sounds like some pokemon attack. I'll go call the peaches over for some input as well.

 

[gantrain05]

peach and zelda can work pretty well together, i had a doubles partner who secondary was zelda, you let us rack up the damage in a hurry and you guys do what u do best and throw out those kill moves lol.

also if you see us Dthrow, jump over our heads and hit em with a Fair, its extremely easy to time that one.

if you like camping, CP japes, have peach throw turnips all over the place while you stand right behind her and spam dins fire, imo its one of their best CP stages, green greens is great too, camp the middle ground and use the platforms as cover while zelda spams Usmash/Fsmash and peach can Utilt thru the platforms while they can also camp very well there. don't know what else to add here as i am about to pass out lol.

 

[GodAtHand]

Japes is a great stage for them! At least I think so!

Zelda is a fortress of sparkly doom on this stage. I just stood on the right platform and every time someone tried to get at me I would use either Fsmash Upsmash Jab or Dtilt and they wouldn't be able to get through. But they kept trying because if they leave me alone I shoot flaming balls of death! All this while Peach uses her maneuverability and combo ability to wrack damage over the rest of the stage. I mean I shot Peach a few times... but in general Peachkid is excellent at neutralizing Din's... which sucks if I have to fight him in singles though haha.

 

[Meru.]

IMO this is an excellent team. I think Sakurai did this on purpose. Some notes of mine:

Peach has trouble killing. But Zelda kills like s***. Zelda, on the other hand, has more trouble racking up damage and approaching. Peach rocks at racking damage and approachs well. They fill in each other weaknesses. Also, this team is very good for camping. Let Zelda spam Din's fire, and Peach should protect Zelda with turnips, jabs, whatever you want. If I Peach is going to get hit by Din, Peach should Nair to neutralise Din.

Also, Peach Uthrow > Zelda Fair/Bair
Peach Uthrow > Zelda Uair
Peach Dthrow > Zelda Fair/Bair
Peach Dthrow > Zelda Uair
Zelda Dthrow > Peach Usmash
Zelda Dtilt > Peach 1st Jab > Zelda Dtilt > Peach 1st Jab > .... (not really sure about this one)

If Peach and Zelda are going to edgeguard together, I think the best thing is for Peach to float and try to attack to opponent, while Zelda should spam Din under Peach (but won't hit her, of course).

Then, I think Zelda's ground game is better than Peach's, but Peach's airgame is better than Zelda's.

So, to cut a long story short, Peach and Zelda are a big contrast. They fill in each other weaknesses and you should create a big advantage of this, and everything will go great.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Peach & Zelda = excellent offensive team., but ****ty on the defense.

My experience shows me this at least. I mean, neither one is exactly a stock tank.

but as long as peach survives a hit, and can get her umbrella out, Zelda can nail her with Din's to get her higher if she needs that.

And peach is normally pretty good at ledge tending which makes Zelda's job of recovering safely a lot easier as long as peach is there to clear out the area.

It's not a perfect team, but it's a pretty good one as long as you know what you are doing and keep in mind that a strong offense is the best defense.

Also, keep in mind that the existence of any teammate at all instantly makes Zelda much better.

 

[Praxis]

I think Peach and Zelda are a really good team. Peach racks up damage fast and has issues killing- Zelda kills. Peach's nair stops her from getting hit by Din's Fire too, so you're fairly safe spamming it with precision.

Peach is really good at controlling the edge, as well.

My experience shows me this at least. I mean, neither one is exactly a stock tank.

Peach is heavier than Zelda. I've actually found I can stock tank pretty well in doubles with a playstyle change. A turnip throw is 3 frames. When I get to 100%, I just start camping with turnips. Pull a turnip, run at your opponent and shield any attack, then turnip OOS. Or SH float down air if you predict a grab (Peach can do aerials while holding items via float). Or just run away and shield when they rush you and turnip OOS.

By shield-turnip-camping Peach can stock tank fairly well in doubles.

Japes is an amazing Peach stage, but doesn't Zelda have trouble there, especially as she's relied on for killing?

Oh, with her autocancelling aerials, Peach can get a lot of grabs, especially in doubles, and can combo into Zelda well.

 

[GodAtHand]

Japes is an amazing Peach stage, but doesn't Zelda have trouble there, especially as she's relied on for killing?

Oh, with her autocancelling aerials, Peach can get a lot of grabs, especially in doubles, and can combo into Zelda well.

If Zelda saves her Dsmash it is probably her best killer on this stage besides lightning kick. Dtilt will also spike people into the water if they are too close to the platform when trying to recover, or if they are trying to be sneaky. Up Air kills on this stage at like 125% not bad really.

 

[gantrain05]

peach isn't very heavy, but my average stock life is probably around 160% with very good DI and recovering smartly and staying away from kill moves it becomes very difficult to actually kill peach.

 

[powuh_of_PIE]

Peach is heavier than Zelda.

You don't say...

Spoiler

Well, now at least we know who the most health-conscious princess is. =P j/k it's all the muscle she built pulling turnips all day.

I wish I could contribute meaningfully to this discussion, but what I would have said has already been said and my gf's Peach is still in the works, so we haven't been able to do much yet. I will say that I didn't know nair canceled Din's, that will be a great help (we had been relying on Toad to work through that, which although sounds nice as a combo it is too laggy and avoidable -_-)

 

[AzNfinesse]

Peach & Zelda = excellent offensive team., but ****ty on the defense.

i don't see how it is supposedly ****y on the defense...zelda is known for being the impenetrable fortress. throw in a floating princess with stilettos of pain...and you've got an almost snake/zelda team. Peach can do an excellent job holding off the opponents with her turnip game, and racking up damage along the way. Zelda's job is extremely simple. keep your kill moves fresh and ready to go.

i'm gonna experiment with this team tomorrow and bring my findings then...as i always do every week

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

i don't see how it is supposedly ****y on the defense...zelda is known for being the impenetrable fortress. throw in a floating princess with stilettos of pain...and you've got an almost snake/zelda team. Peach can do an excellent job holding off the opponents with her turnip game, and racking up damage along the way. Zelda's job is extremely simple. keep your kill moves fresh and ready to go.

i'm gonna experiment with this team tomorrow and bring my findings then...as i always do every week

only because they are both lightweights... especially zelda.

 

[AzNfinesse]

only because they are both lightweights... especially zelda.

how does being a lightweight affect a person's/team's defensive strategy?

peach's defensive strategy revolves around pressuring/baiting opponents with turnips, you can almost call it an agressive defense. she pressures opponents with low risk maneuvers and waits for the opportunity to punish (wait...this kinda sounds like a defensive strategy)

zelda's defensive strategy revolves around the fact that you just can't approach her without a projectile or a broken hitbox. she sits there and spams dins to pressure her opponents to approach, and when they do they get punished.

being a lightweight has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with their level of defensive play. being lightweight affects their ability to survive, if that's what you're meaning to say. you, my friend, need to realize the difference.