Why is Ike allowed in low tier tournaments?

[xLeafybug =D]

Why is Ike easy to play?

Honestly, he's not really. I should know, since he's my low tier character. I just found him easier to play than the other low tier characters. But my friends can't play him at all. Maybe it's just me.

 

[Cherry64]

Ike is low on the tier list because of horrible top tier matchups, however he has etremely excellent MU for low tiers. This causes a huge unbalance in low tier tournaments. However most people see low tier as a side event and nto an actual metagame and wont be worked to create a balanced tier

He does indeed do well against most everyone in low tier, with the exception of Samus.

if we keep him from getting close, which is the ONLY thing we know how to do, we're set.

I'm not bashing Ike because I know his range is stupid, but we can keep the spam up as long as it takes, throw a few grabs around when he starts approaching, mix ups with z air homing missiles and smash missiles, the Ike will be injured when he gets to us, then we ftilt and he gets knocked back and what do we do?

rinse and repeat.

 

[Magik0722]

Yeah samus is the only diffcult MU for ike in low tiers

Though samus loses to alot of other low tiers

 

[Inui]

Ike is the 5th worst character in the game and has several bad match-ups and slight losses in low tiers anyways, like Samus, Sonic, and Bowser.

 

[§leepy God]

♪ I would say Samus for a lot of reasons, Sonic is still debatable, but Bowser?! I can't really agree with that. †

 

[A2ZOMG]

♪ I would say Samus for a lot of reasons, Sonic is still debatable, but Bowser?! I can't really agree with that. †

Bowser's Firebreath and Up-B out of shield are two attacks that Ike is bad at dealing with. Ike unlike most characters can't SDI to punish Firebreath easily, so it's much more useful for camping him in this matchup. Up-B out of shield also pretty much wrecks anything Ike does to approach, and anything he doesn't space perfectly also gets punished pretty severely by Bowser's powerful OOS game. It's also much harder for Ike to get up from the ledge against Bowser than the other way around.

 

[Kitamerby]

Ike is the 5th worst character in the game and has several bad match-ups and slight losses in low tiers anyways, like Samus, Sonic, and Bowser.

Actually, after watching most Sonics and Ikes play the matchup, I'd say that it looks more like Ike beats Sonic right now in the metagame.

Potentially, I think Sonic can turn the matchup to slightly his favor, like 55:45, but most Sonics haven't figured out the tricky, sneaky tricks that can screw up Ike.

Also, I'd like to see your bottom 5, or reasoning for some of the characters above him, honestly.

 

[Kaiber Kop]

Actually, after watching most Sonics and Ikes play the matchup, I'd say that it looks more like Ike beats Sonic right now in the metagame.

Potentially, I think Sonic can turn the matchup to slightly his favor, like 55:45, but most Sonics haven't figured out the tricky, sneaky tricks that can screw up Ike.

Also, I'd like to see your bottom 5, or reasoning for some of the characters above him, honestly.

LOL what? I win low tier events with sonic and beat inui's ike most of the time. Its not in Ikes favor at all and that was clearly an assumption with no backup evidence. Unless of course all of the sonics in your region suck

 

[Magik0722]

But sonic isnt even low tier any more, despite your objections inui

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Ike beats Bowser. The CG hurts too much for it not to be 55-45 Ike's A. Firebreath only screws us over when recovering, we can still SDI back out of it and then punish with a Dash Attack. That, and Fair still reaches over it's initial start.

If Fair hit's Bowser's shield and he uses fortress, Ike has just enough time to PS it. So it's not a very big issue.

From my matches against Espy, Ike vs Sonic is dead even. If the Ike is terrible like me and is constantly making mistakes that he doesn't realize until after the match, it's like 6-4 Sonic's A. I seriously need to stop using Fair against Sonic...

 

[san.]

Sonic is definitely debatable. It's been hovering around even, +-5 both ways for a while now. Samus, don't really know the reasons why they think it's 60-40, but I don't have much experience vs samus mains. Bowser, don't know why you guys think it's in any sort of large favor for bowser. Fire breath? Really? Don't know why some of you think that, though.

 

[The Cunning Weasel]

Pokemon Trainer beats Ike. Mainly Squirtle teehee

 

[Magik0722]

ike has some nasty grab releases on squirtle and outranges his stuby legs with his giant sword

ike is one of squirtles most difficult matchups




also quit arguing sonic is a ike counter, that point is moot since sonic isnt low tier

 

[Xyro77]

ike and ness SHOULD NOT BE LOW TIER. Sonic is not in low tier, stop bringing him up.

 

[GHNeko]

Why is this topic still going. xD

OP is amazing. Plus the question was already answered.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Why is this topic still going. xD

OP is amazing. Plus the question was already answered.

Because the question has some real debate among some members here.

But honestly this is something that is a tier list thread question.

 

[Teh Brettster]

IKE LAWL

Silly. People rejoice when they play an Ike in regular tourney. And then in a low tier tourney they're all OH NOEZ and ****.

Next time I'm in a low tier tourney, I'm going to pick my man Ike and scream "BOO!" in my first opponent's ear. And then I'll wait for the smell of urine to announce that I've already won.

 

[Flayl]

Ike beats Bowser. The CG hurts too much for it not to be 55-45 Ike's A. Firebreath only screws us over when recovering, we can still SDI back out of it and then punish with a Dash Attack. That, and Fair still reaches over it's initial start.

If Fair hit's Bowser's shield and he uses fortress, Ike has just enough time to PS it. So it's not a very big issue.

From my matches against Espy, Ike vs Sonic is dead even. If the Ike is terrible like me and is constantly making mistakes that he doesn't realize until after the match, it's like 6-4 Sonic's A. I seriously need to stop using Fair against Sonic...

Wow, this is terrible. Bowser's chaingrab on Ike is so much better than Ike's on Bowser (which has to be frame perfect btw after 2 bthrows), and you say it's IKE'S CHAINGRAB that puts it in his favor?

Bowser isn't fortressing against Ike's FAir, wtf. Depending if it's Full Jumped or not, we either shield then dash to get in fortress range or simply drop shield and ftilt Ike. Yeah Ike's non-full jump FAir is so laggy Bowser can drop shield Ftilt against it.

Whatever, Vex thinks it's slightly in Ike's favor anyway, just not for the terrible reasons you listed.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

When I rush out a post between classes at university, I'm not going to list every single point. I threw out the two things that came to mind. >_>

And for the record: I doubt Bowser's Ftilt has quite enough range to hit a properly spaced Fair off of shield.

 

[san.]

Wow, this is terrible. Bowser's chaingrab on Ike is so much better than Ike's on Bowser (which has to be frame perfect btw after 2 bthrows), and you say it's IKE'S CHAINGRAB that puts it in his favor?

Bowser isn't fortressing against Ike's FAir, wtf. Depending if it's Full Jumped or not, we either shield then dash to get in fortress range or simply drop shield and ftilt Ike. Yeah Ike's non-full jump FAir is so laggy Bowser can drop shield Ftilt against it.

Whatever, Vex thinks it's slightly in Ike's favor anyway, just not for the terrible reasons you listed.

Let's leave the matchup discussions to the character boards. He was just talking about specific things people said, like" Up-B out of shield also pretty much wrecks anything Ike does to approach" and stuff about the fire breath.

Bowser shouldn't be able to punish Ike's fair with ftilt.

Let's just calm down.

 

[Flayl]

Let's leave the matchup discussions to the character boards. He was just talking about specific things people said, like" Up-B out of shield also pretty much wrecks anything Ike does to approach" and stuff about the fire breath.

Bowser shouldn't be able to punish Ike's fair with ftilt.

Let's just calm down.

I am calm, I thought it was amusing that an Ike thought having a low % chaingrab on Bowser suddenly gave him the advantage.

And it's terribly hard not to punish's Ike's FAir on shield, it has 30 frames of lag. If Ike spaces perfectly Bowser just has to move 1 step forward and ftilt is guaranteed.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

22 frames of lag with IASA frames.

The CG is what caused it to go from 5-5 to 55-45. >_>

 

[Kinzer]

Actually, after watching most Sonics and Ikes play the matchup, I'd say that it looks more like Ike beats Sonic right now in the metagame.

Potentially, I think Sonic can turn the matchup to slightly his favor, like 55:45, but most Sonics haven't figured out the tricky, sneaky tricks that can screw up Ike.

Also, I'd like to see your bottom 5, or reasoning for some of the characters above him, honestly.

If you honestly believe Ike has anything going for him over Sonic sans range and power, it has been way too long since you've not been in a tourney scene Michael. Come at me, even with your Lucario if your wish. I promise you that my Sonic has much improved since we've last done brawled with anything on the line.

LOL what? I win low tier events with sonic and beat inui's ike most of the time. Its not in Ikes favor at all and that was clearly an assumption with no backup evidence. Unless of course all of the sonics in your region suck

I'm trying d***it!

ike and ness SHOULD NOT BE LOW TIER. Sonic is not in low tier, stop bringing him up.

Ah, such a shame that there is no tier inbetween what is C and D. Ike sucks too much in a normal setting, but dominates in low-tiers. Ness may be in the same place, but seeing as how his grab-release problem is universal and not MU specific like Ike's problems are, I find it harder to believe for Ness.

 

[Magik0722]

But ness has an unwinable matchup against pokemon trainer

 

[Inui]

ike and ness SHOULD NOT BE LOW TIER. Sonic is not in low tier, stop bringing him up.

Stop being dumb, Allan. Please.

Actually, after watching most Sonics and Ikes play the matchup, I'd say that it looks more like Ike beats Sonic right now in the metagame.

Nope. Sonice wins. I'm extremely experienced in this match-up. I've played Kai, Mr. 3000, Shugo, ithrowthings, MalcolmM, Blue, etc. Sonic definitely wins 60/40.

Potentially, I think Sonic can turn the matchup to slightly his favor, like 55:45, but most Sonics haven't figured out the tricky, sneaky tricks that can screw up Ike.

You mean the crappy ones haven't. Mr. 3000, Shugo, and Kai were/are extremely hard and I can't really win often, if at all, despite how incredible my Ike is and me knowing the match-up well.

I'm one of very few people around that can actually say "I know the Sonic match-up very well for many characters" lol...

Also, I'd like to see your bottom 5, or reasoning for some of the characters above him, honestly.

Ike
Zelda
Captain Falcon
Link
Ganondorf

Ike is bottom 5 because of:

90/10 counters: Meta Knight, Dedede, Olimar
80/20-70/30 counters: the rest of S and A tier

Other low tiers aren't ***** that badly. Like...Mario can do better against them all, and Mario is horrible.

 

[BigLøu]

Ike is absolute garbage <_<

 

[Inui]

Ike is absolute garbage <_<

Yes.

He is extremely limited and bad.

Wining with him requires your opponent to make mistakes and get tricked...a lot. He has no method to force/create mistakes and no frame traps or anything like that. He can just spam jab and f-air...but all you need to do is SHIELD PROPERLY to beat Ike.

 

[PhantomX]

TBH, I think Ganon goes almost even with Ike.

 

[Magik0722]

get outta here you

 

[Inui]

TBH, I think Ganon goes almost even with Ike.

Ike wins like 55/45 or 60/40, lol. Ganondorf gets to actually fight something as limited as himself.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I find it hilariously depressing how bad Ike is at dealing with camping of any sort.

If you got time Inui, I want to hear why you think Link is the 2nd worst character in the game. I think he actually beats Ike.

 

[Inui]

I find it hilariously depressing how bad Ike is at dealing with camping of any sort.

If you got time Inui, I want to hear why you think Link is the 2nd worst character in the game. I think he actually beats Ike.

Link does beat Ike slightly. But what does that amount to? Link has the same 90/10's working against him plus Falco.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Doesn't Link actually have stuff that can win against Snake? His Z-air is pretty fast and safe, and he's got a lot of projectiles, so he doesn't have to automatically get blown up by every grenade shield attempt Snake does.

 

[MK26]

Link's got a better chance against snake than kirby does D:

 

[PhantomX]

Ike wins like 55/45 or 60/40, lol. Ganondorf gets to actually fight something as limited as himself.

I think 55:45 is accurate.

They can both gay each over tremendously depending on CP stages though, lol.

Regardless, its' one of the closest things to an even matchup that Ganon has XD

 

[Mr. Escalator]

That and a ditto lol.
Regardless, I think this whole talk on Ike is silly because he doesnt actually have an unwinnable matchup against ALL of S and A tier, and the same goes for Link.

 

[Shaya]

I personally like the idea that the tier seperation in brawl is diverse enough through wide-spread subjection that this type of conversation could occur.

As in, Brawl has enough going for it, that a low tier metagame could actually formulate itself.


...
Ike moves up to BORDERLINE
Ike gets ***** by this predicament
Ike moves back to Under Used
UU metagame screams and rages
Everyone uses Ike.
Ike remains as the last hero in UU, everyone else is NU.

 

[Magik0722]

this aint pokemon

 

[Ray_Kalm]

I think 55:45 is accurate.

They can both gay each over tremendously depending on CP stages though, lol.

Regardless, its' one of the closest things to an even matchup that Ganon has XD

Ike has it a bit better than that. Both characters will have to rely on eachother's mistakes to punish, but Ike doesn't have to as much. His jab shenanigans really put Ganon in a bad place. It's 60:40 at best.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Ike have a guaranteed dash attack after a BThrow on Ganon?

 

[Mr. Escalator]

Ike has a guaranteed dash attack out of his Bthrow on a lot of characters, at least as I recall, so that sounds about right Kalm.