Why is Ike allowed in low tier tournaments?

[Ray_Kalm]

Ganon has a guaranteed dash attack out of his Bthrow on a lot of characters, at least as I recall, so that sounds about right Kalm.

Where have you heard this? Ganon's BThrow's too laggy for any follow-ups.

Edit: Oh, you meant Ike.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

I meant Ike, of course. Ganon is a terrible, terrible character, with terrible, terrible throws.

It should be obvious I meant Ike in context and through common sense

 

[A2ZOMG]

Ike has it a bit better than that. Both characters will have to rely on eachother's mistakes to punish, but Ike doesn't have to as much. His jab shenanigans really put Ganon in a bad place. It's 60:40 at best.

Ike doesn't have a safe way to set up Jabs in the first place. He's too slow, and you have moves that outrange it anyway.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Ike doesn't have a safe way to set up Jabs in the first place. He's too slow, and you have moves that outrange it anyway.

Ike's jab is 3 frames (If I recall correctly), this would allow it to out-prioritize any of Ganon's move. He could just walk up and jab Ganon freely, this alone forces Ganon to "do something".

 

[Inui]

Doesn't Link actually have stuff that can win against Snake? His Z-air is pretty fast and safe, and he's got a lot of projectiles, so he doesn't have to automatically get blown up by every grenade shield attempt Snake does.

Myth. Snake owns Link very badly. Snake's too heavy and camps just as well but actually outfights him very easily. Snake's f-tilt, KO power, and weight = too much for Link to handle.

Link's got a better chance against snake than kirby does D:

Um, definitely not...

Ike has a guaranteed dash attack out of his Bthrow on a lot of characters, at least as I recall, so that sounds about right Kalm.

Not really... Maybe sorta...but that's still like only 13% or so...

I meant Ike, of course. Ganon is a terrible, terrible character, with terrible, terrible throws.

It should be obvious I meant Ike in context and through common sense

...which is the same damage as Ganondorf's f-throw alone, lol...

 

[A2ZOMG]

Ike's jab is faster than reaction time, that would allow it to out-prioritize any of Ganon's move. He could just walk up and jab Ganon freely because of that, this alone forces Ganon to do something.

He can't just do that with impunity if you don't suck. He has no approach and he's slow, and you have decently fast moves that outrange his Jab anyway, and Flame Choking usually trades hits with it.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Not really... Maybe sorta...but that's still like only 13% or so....

The point of BThrow > Dash Attack is to force the opponent to do something else, not really for the damage.

@A2Zomg: That's true, but that doesn't really matter much against a character who doesn't FORCE you to approach. Ike has better tools to force Ganon to approach, and better tools to stop him approaching (FAir, jab, DA).

 

[JesiahTEG]

1.) No way in hell should Ike be allowed in any Low Tier Tournaments. At all. No exceptions.

2.) San is the best Ike in the world. Yes Inui, better than you and M2K's Ike. As in, not only would he beat you and M2K in Ike dittos, but if he entered a national tournament with Ike, and you did too along with M2K, he would place the highest.

/dickriding

 

[A2ZOMG]

The point of BThrow > Dash Attack is to force the opponent to do something else, not really for the damage.

@A2Zomg: That's true, but that doesn't really matter much against a character who doesn't FORCE you to approach. Ike has better tools to force Ganon to approach, and better tools to stop him approaching (FAir, jab, DA).

Ike doesn't have better tools to force Ganon to approach. He's only marginally better at stopping approaches with his Jab, and not even by that much since it doesn't have anything resembling infinite priority, when Ganondorf has attacks that will beat it out.

Ike's F-air is a free powershield -> punish if your reaction is good. Ike's DA is one of the worst in the entire game. It's extremely slow, unsafe, and has terrible reward.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

A cursory glance at a quick ike guide says it does 14%, which may or may not be accurate outside of the training room, and regardless, it's easier to land grabs as Ike because he has some of the best shield bait moves, as well as the positional advantage from landing that dash attack is simply better than Ganon's fthrow. Ike has something like a 17 frame advantage from his bthrow, so at low percents he can actually bthrow->bthrow some characters and finish that string with the dash attack. Bowser gets CG'd for a decent portion of his health, but I'm fairly certain (im going off my memory on this) he can score regrabs on more than just bowser at low percents.

Anyway, Ike's Bthrow is better than all of Ganon's throws :I
San is also a beast, I may add.

 

[Lovely]

Link's got a better chance against snake than kirby does D:

Mostly because Link doesn't die very fast with Snake's Up Tilt. If you have a Link & Kirby combo, you pretty much want to use Link for Ice Climbers and Snake mostly because he handles them better than Kirby.

 

[A2ZOMG]

A cursory glance at a quick ike guide says it does 14%, which may or may not be accurate outside of the training room, and regardless, it's easier to land grabs as Ike because he has some of the best shield bait moves, as well as the positional advantage from landing that dash attack is simply better than Ganon's fthrow. Ike has something like a 17 frame advantage from his bthrow, so at low percents he can actually bthrow->bthrow some characters and finish that string with the dash attack. Bowser gets CG'd for a decent portion of his health, but I'm fairly certain (im going off my memory on this) he can score regrabs on more than just bowser at low percents.

Anyway, Ike's Bthrow is better than all of Ganon's throws :I
San is also a beast, I may add.

Ike's DA is 18 frames.

Assuming that you are correct on Ike's B-throw, I'm betting that your opponent has bad DI or something if they are getting hit by Ike's DA.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Sorry to interrupt this very funny topic, but...

Assuming that you are correct on Ike's B-throw, I'm betting that your opponent has bad DI if they are getting hit by Ike's DA.

It's a true combo at certain %s, even with DI. Kirk tested it all out with those PSA hacks or w/e. Why is it so hard to accept Ike has true combos?

Back to amusing me now A2 and Inui.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

I'm going off of memory as YagamiLight isnt on IRC at the moment, but I assure you that Dash attack is a guaranteed combo on certain characters at certain percents. I forget if the advantage is greater on bigger targets or something.

I just know that **** is real.

 

[A2ZOMG]

It's a true combo at certain %s, even with DI. Kirk tested it all out with those PSA hacks or w/e. Why is it so hard to accept Ike has true combos?

Ganondorf has a lot of true combos (ones that do massive damage) and he's garbage. This doesn't make a difference for Ike either way, since Ike is also garbage. I'm merely trying to get people to be correct, and for the record, I have not seen Ike consistently B-throw to DA.

Why is it so hard for you to accept that Ike is overrated garbage? The only way you will get better with a character is by accepting their weaknesses.

 

[Inui]

1.) No way in hell should Ike be allowed in any Low Tier Tournaments. At all. No exceptions.

2.) San is the best Ike in the world. Yes Inui, better than you and M2K's Ike. As in, not only would he beat you and M2K in Ike dittos, but if he entered a national tournament with Ike, and you did too along with M2K, he would place the highest.

/dickriding

LOL

Stop not camping Ike to death and having regional bias.

You don't really understand the character at all.

 

[M@v]

LOL

Stop not camping Ike to death and having regional bias.

You don't really understand the character at all.

What is there to understand? Ike sucks.

 

[Magik0722]

If the was one person who was filled with regional bias

 

[Javon89]

Ike blows, he has a **** recovery, laggy attacks which mean they're very easy to punish, very susceptible to camping and a smart player can **** him easily. >.>

 

[Shaya]

M2K mysteriously had to leave a tournament early instantly after he lost in the winner's bracket in a low tier doubles tournament (with ike).

A certain ness and samus duo tore through the competition.

 

[Palpi]

I would think Ike is the best character if I mained snake and got 3 stocked by one.

 

[Kitamerby]

LOL what? I win low tier events with sonic and beat inui's ike most of the time. Its not in Ikes favor at all and that was clearly an assumption with no backup evidence. Unless of course all of the sonics in your region suck

Well, for one, Sonic has no way to kill Ike at all safely, as any possible kill he can make would be entirely due to player error. Ike however, can much more easily kill Sonic due to how necessary it is for Sonic to get inside. His ways of getting in, though, while there are mixups, will eventually be read at top levels, so yeah.


Also, if Inui thinks Ike is so garbage, why are you beating it? Why is Inui using the 5th worst character in low tiers, when there are obviously 10+ better characters to use? Something's wrong here...

Is it possible that Inui really likes Ike, but he's simply putting him down to keep him in low tiers so he can keep winning? If he loses, it's obviously because he's using the 5th worst character, and if he wins, it's obviously because he's the better player. He has ultimate john material right there regardless of winning or losing.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Also, if Inui thinks Ike is so garbage, why are you beating it? Why is Inui using the 5th worst character in low tiers, when there are obviously 10+ better characters to use? Something's wrong here...

The same reason that some of us use Ganondorf.

These characters are ****ing cool and badass.

Why Sakurai doesn't make them high tier and how he can COMPLETELY miss how terrible their options are, your guess is as good as mine.

 

[Inui]

What is there to understand? Ike sucks.

Ike blows, he has a **** recovery, laggy attacks which mean they're very easy to punish, very susceptible to camping and a smart player can **** him easily. >.>

qft

Well, for one, Sonic has no way to kill Ike at all safely, as any possible kill he can make would be entirely due to player error. Ike however, can much more easily kill Sonic due to how necessary it is for Sonic to get inside. His ways of getting in, though, while there are mixups, will eventually be read at top levels, so yeah.

Ike can't ever hit Sonic ever no matter what unless the Sonic messes up.

Also, if Inui thinks Ike is so garbage, why are you beating it? Why is Inui using the 5th worst character in low tiers, when there are obviously 10+ better characters to use? Something's wrong here...

Ike is one of my favorite characters. I like him a lot. He's good in low tier tournaments, just trashy in other ones.

Is it possible that Inui really likes Ike, but he's simply putting him down to keep him in low tiers so he can keep winning? If he loses, it's obviously because he's using the 5th worst character, and if he wins, it's obviously because he's the better player. He has ultimate john material right there regardless of winning or losing.

LOL

No. I allow Sonic in my low tier events even though I can't beat Kai. Bias? No. Get that crap outta here.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

That's really plausible, Kitamerby. No, seriously, it was explain his overly outrageous claims.
Anyway, Ness is too good in low tier events. PT and Sonic are obviously not low tier but whatever!

 

[Kinzer]

What is there to understand? Ike sucks.

The difference is how much he sucks in low-tires.

Holy Hell at the kind of discussion this one thread has sparked. The OP wasn't even a good foundation.

Well, for one, Sonic has no way to kill Ike at all safely, as any possible kill he can make would be entirely due to player error. Ike however, can much more easily kill Sonic due to how necessary it is for Sonic to get inside. His ways of getting in, though, while there are mixups, will eventually be read at top levels, so yeah.


Also, if Inui thinks Ike is so garbage, why are you beating it? Why is Inui using the 5th worst character in low tiers, when there are obviously 10+ better characters to use? Something's wrong here...

Is it possible that Inui really likes Ike, but he's simply putting him down to keep him in low tiers so he can keep winning? If he loses, it's obviously because he's using the 5th worst character, and if he wins, it's obviously because he's the better player. He has ultimate john material right there regardless of winning or losing.

D*** you Michael, why you be trollin'?

Ike can't ever hit Sonic ever no matter what unless the Sonic messes up.



Ike is one of my favorite characters. I like him a lot. He's good in low tier tournaments, just trashy in other ones.



LOL

No. I allow Sonic in my low tier events even though I can't beat Kai. Bias? No. Get that crap outta here.

I'm so sorry. He be trollin'.

 

[Inui]

That's really plausible, Kitamerby. No, seriously, it was explain his overly outrageous claims.
Anyway, Ness is too good in low tier events. PT and Sonic are obviously not low tier but whatever!

No. I have a deep understanding of the character at the current highest levels of play and I'm very experienced with him. That's what I base my claims on.

I'm not biased. I allow Sonic in low tiers because he's bad and the tier list is wrong. I can't beat Kai, so I'll never take first. If I designed the events for me to win them, I'd ban Sonic and claim the tier list is why.

 

[Magik0722]

Pt definately s low tier material

 

[ShadowLink84]

No, you're wrong stfu inui we dont like you. *angry face*

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

rawr im inui i know evrythin bout smash so u shuld beeleev me no mattr wut kthxbai.

Sorry, but that's what you sounds like, albeit with better grammar.

When I first read your post, I thought you were joking and being arrogant on purpose, then I realized you were serious.

 

[DoonKoon]

Ike could one-hit KO you..

 

[Gindler]

M2K mysteriously had to leave a tournament early instantly after he lost in the winner's bracket in a low tier doubles tournament (with ike).

A certain ness and samus duo tore through the competition.

I can see that, ness is unfair in low tier doubles. He's already really good in "all-tier" doubles

 

[Llumys]

Ike could one-hit KO you..

If you suffer from a disease known as mental ***********, sure.

 

[mikeray4]

lol @ inui's intellect

ONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNLLLLLLLLLLYYYYYY INUI!

and you're and idiot....san would **** you.....AND THERE AINT NO REGIONAL BIAS IN THAT STATEMENT

 

[kozimoto]

No, just no.

Ike cannot claim a victory in a tourney on his own if anybody knows how to play Falco/D3/Olimar.

Tell that to San. he'll fsmash you...............

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Myth. Snake owns Link very badly. Snake's too heavy and camps just as well but actually outfights him very easily. Snake's f-tilt, KO power, and weight = too much for Link to handle.

This is all wrong except the Ftilt part, it out ranges all of Link's ground moves except his risky grab Link's Ftilt or jab almost can hit him but sadly can't.

Also Link's Worst MU's in order: Falco, King DeDeDe, Metaknight, Fox.

All four are 30:70 in guess who's favor.

 

[<π]

All four are 30:70 in guess who's favor.

Umm... Link's? Am I close? Its link right?

 

[Yonder]

qft
Ike can't ever hit Sonic ever no matter what unless the Sonic messes up.

I agree, Sonic is sorta tough for Ike :s

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Umm... Link's? Am I close? Its link right?

Right answer.

Link vs MK is 30:70 Link's favor.

I wish

 

[Kinzer]

Tell that to San. he'll fsmash you...............

I'd like to, but I'm on the other side of the country. and Wi-Fi is lulzy (in case anybody was about to suggest).