What is your most hated criticism against your most wanted character?

[GillyGrime]

We do know relevancy is a factor, but anyone saying it's the only way somebody is getting in is being silly. It definitely has shown its face, though. Isaac not being playable may be due to that alone, as his games are no longer relevant.


Definitely. Though there's no denying the idea that she might not be in because Sakurai wants her to be a tag team character. She didn't work in Brawl as that, and has yet to be playable. All transformations/tag team characters were gone in 4. This could be why she wasn't in 4. Ultimate had King K. Rool as higher priority with a unique moveset. If she's still intended to be a tag team character, it would explain why she isn't in Ultimate.

There's a very big difference in saying she has to be an echo(though a semi-clone would very much help her get in, and she has a lot of similar enough abilities to be a combination of Diddy and DK and still be faithful. I prefer semi over Echo myself if the options are only those two) or that her being in as a tag team is the most likely way she'll be in and saying "she has to be an echo" or "she has to be a tag team character". In fact, was anybody making that actual argument that these two are necessities? Instead of most likely possibilities? I know my point I've made is these are likely scenarios for her, and her being an Echo is far less likely at this point(my guess is she was going to be faithful in Brawl, thus, she would not be an echo of Diddy as is, due to a completely different playstyle. Semi at most), just not actually impossible.


Ugh. Don't remind me of this terrible argument. People don't know how echoes work, do they? Dixie actually could be a DK or Diddy echo due to the right body shape. Not saying she should, just could. I've made quite a few arguments that Isabelle cannot work as an Echo without an entirely new body(which is a lot of work for an echo) and would be a semi-clone instead. Later on I added she would be using unique abilities that fit her character more, after finding out some of her abilities from Amiibo Festival. The only thing I actually got wrong is I didn't think she's borrow much from Villager, including his tools, as she doesn't generally use them. Pocket, yes, but the tools, no. Still is a satisfying design, but I'd have liked her even more unique.

Honestly, the bodyshape is the most important thing. Now, if the idea that Duck Hunt is being used as a partial base to help design B&K, that's an actual realistic argument. Banjo uses Kazooie for tons of attacks, so it does help. There's some data-based evidence that PP used Bowser Jr's a bit to help create his character, due to being in a vehicle/container of sorts. PP is in a pipe/pot in a similar way. They're only tangibly similar, but that can be enough to help build a moveset. Some other examples are Ike being used to help create Corrin and Cloud. They do have a few similar moves. Likewise, Zero Suit Samus was used to help create Bayonetta. Again, tangible similarities. This looks similar to how Ness was first made, using Mario as a base. You can actually see some similar A moves to a degree. The AAA combo, the down tilt, even the up tilt is somewhat similar. Ness is kind of like Wolf(except more unique), a frankenstein of moves. The best part is Ness' jump is very similar to Mewtwo's, so it makes me wonder if any work was done on the Psychic Pokemon at all, and the jump could've been reused on Ness to finish him off and make him stand out.

There’s previously been many claims she would need to tag team in her thread, as with the Geno thread previously suggesting a Mallow tag team.

Other than her design making her an obvious candidate for a semi-clone/echo fighter (the former far more so), with Diddy already in, her only choices are Kiddy or Cranky Kong.

Kiddy is generally disliked or ignored and has absolutely no demand or relevancy in the series past his one game, and Cranky has never been in a team with Dixie, so it would be like Tails partnering up with Knuckles.

And it’s not even like it would be original. It would be akin to Zelda pre Smash 4 with a Sheik transformation, or if Pokemon Trainer was short one Pokemon. The idea of Sakurai holding back on her to develop a whole different character, and that character being Kiddy of all choices, is laughably silly.

I hope Sakurai has dropped the idea of a tag team being a requirement for Dixie to be added cause in my opinion, that’s even more stupid than his “Ridley is too big” justification.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

There’s previously been many claims she would need to tag team in her thread, as with the Geno thread previously suggesting a Mallow tag team.

Yeish. "Need" is definitely wrong. Has a possibility of being what's keeping her out? Yeah, a pretty reasonable possibility, with no evidence to suggest she'll be solo any time soon.

Other than her design making her an obvious candidate for a semi-clone/echo fighter (the former far more so), with Diddy already in, her only choices are Kiddy or Cranky Kong.

Kiddy is generally disliked or ignored and has absolutely no demand or relevancy in the series past his one game, and Cranky has never been in a team with Dixie, so it would be like Tails partnering up with Knuckles.

And it’s not even like it would be original. It would be akin to Zelda pre Smash 4 with a Sheik transformation, or if Pokemon Trainer was short one Pokemon. The idea of Sakurai holding back on her to develop a whole different character, and that character being Kiddy of all choices, is laughably silly.

I hope Sakurai has dropped the idea of a tag team being a requirement for Dixie to be added cause in my opinion, that’s even more stupid than his “Ridley is too big” justification.

It's not silly in any way(well, using Kiddy, yes. Partnering up? No. That's actually a pretty big part of who Dixie was and what she's most memorable for). He wanted her as a tag team. Him sticking to his guns when he's a stubborn man makes sense. Don't forget the only aspect of DKC left that has yet to be used is the infamous tag team mechanic. Cranky can easily work as a partner for her and still make sense. Both are the last two major characters in the series and both generally have been playable as introduced as part of a team-up mechanic. Just in different ways. Putting them together does faithfully represent the series without needing to use someone who is actually unpopular, like Kiddy. Tails and Knuckles generally can be partnered up in an actual Sonic game specifically anyway(Sonic Advance 3), so the analogy doesn't work that well. They'd also make pretty good partners in Smash, actually.

The "Ridley is too big" is not an accurate summary of how Sakurai actually felt. It's kind of there, but his actual point about Ridley is the character's major selling point was his intimidation. Size played a role in that. He also had no way to downsize him with balance till Ultimate, in which he had an entirely new model created. He wanted to be rather faithful and it was not easy. Dixie is very faithful if she's a tag team character and uses her hair. Those were her most known traits. It wasn't until more recent games that she finally went solo. There's a reason why Sakurai was intending to represent the partner mechanic, an actual important bit of DKC in general. Dixie & Diddy were the original team to do so with DK already there. It didn't work during Brawl. Diddy was major enough on his own to easily stay in, but Dixie got cut. She has yet to be playable at any time, and in both game development cases, him working on making her a tag team character does actually fit why she wouldn't be in. 4 clearly wouldn't make that possible(since 3DS issues). She was clearly lower priority over King K. Rool. There was not enough time for her to be in, no matter if she was a tag team or not(she probably was still a tag team. But there was no time for echoes, clones, semi-clones beyond what we got. Despite there being a good 3 years, Ultimate was still pretty rushed overall as a game. Priority was given heavily to make sure everyone was there, which is why we had 11 base newcomers and 1 character who evidently was meant for base too, though not entirely proven, which was still worked on during it as is, just being finished after the game was). K. Rool's heavy ballot presence gave him a nice leg up.

The thing is, there's no reason to believe whatsoever he ever had a single other idea for Dixie beyond "team up" at this point. She could literally be a tag team with Cranky and as DLC, being announced later on. She might be another character that's optional like PP is, instead of the fighter's pass. She might not appear till a later game as playable, not treated as higher priority compared to a lot of other characters.

 

[?????????????]

Most hated criticism of my most wanted character?

“He’s already in Brawlhalla, so he can’t be in Smash.”

 

[GillyGrime]

Yeish. "Need" is definitely wrong. Has a possibility of being what's keeping her out? Yeah, a pretty reasonable possibility, with no evidence to suggest she'll be solo any time soon.


It's not silly in any way(well, using Kiddy, yes. Partnering up? No. That's actually a pretty big part of who Dixie was and what she's most memorable for). He wanted her as a tag team. Him sticking to his guns when he's a stubborn man makes sense. Don't forget the only aspect of DKC left that has yet to be used is the infamous tag team mechanic. Cranky can easily work as a partner for her and still make sense. Both are the last two major characters in the series and both generally have been playable as introduced as part of a team-up mechanic. Just in different ways. Putting them together does faithfully represent the series without needing to use someone who is actually unpopular, like Kiddy. Tails and Knuckles generally can be partnered up in an actual Sonic game specifically anyway(Sonic Advance 3), so the analogy doesn't work that well. They'd also make pretty good partners in Smash, actually.

The "Ridley is too big" is not an accurate summary of how Sakurai actually felt. It's kind of there, but his actual point about Ridley is the character's major selling point was his intimidation. Size played a role in that. He also had no way to downsize him with balance till Ultimate, in which he had an entirely new model created. He wanted to be rather faithful and it was not easy. Dixie is very faithful if she's a tag team character and uses her hair. Those were her most known traits. It wasn't until more recent games that she finally went solo. There's a reason why Sakurai was intending to represent the partner mechanic, an actual important bit of DKC in general. Dixie & Diddy were the original team to do so with DK already there. It didn't work during Brawl. Diddy was major enough on his own to easily stay in, but Dixie got cut. She has yet to be playable at any time, and in both game development cases, him working on making her a tag team character does actually fit why she wouldn't be in. 4 clearly wouldn't make that possible(since 3DS issues). She was clearly lower priority over King K. Rool. There was not enough time for her to be in, no matter if she was a tag team or not(she probably was still a tag team. But there was no time for echoes, clones, semi-clones beyond what we got. Despite there being a good 3 years, Ultimate was still pretty rushed overall as a game. Priority was given heavily to make sure everyone was there, which is why we had 11 base newcomers and 1 character who evidently was meant for base too, though not entirely proven, which was still worked on during it as is, just being finished after the game was). K. Rool's heavy ballot presence gave him a nice leg up.

The thing is, there's no reason to believe whatsoever he ever had a single other idea for Dixie beyond "team up" at this point. She could literally be a tag team with Cranky and as DLC, being announced later on. She might be another character that's optional like PP is, instead of the fighter's pass. She might not appear till a later game as playable, not treated as higher priority compared to a lot of other characters.

That's all well and good, my point is that I disagree strongly with that sentiment. I strongly disagree that the partner up mechanic is a staple of the character more than it is a staple of the original trilogy. With Diddy already out of the count, we have Cranky who has no relation to Dixie in the games as a partner and Kiddy who is far from desired and if anything, is one of the complaints some people have of DKC3. Kiddy is really not important or major in the series, Funky is way more prominent and popular, and Kiddy has only partnered up with Dixie once, much like Tails and Knuckles (as well in Sonic Mania). Also Funky has never partnered up with Dixie so that isn't a faithful representation, Kiddy is the most faithful partner choice depressingly. I agree K. Rool did and should have taken priority.

At this point if you and Sakurai think Dixie inherently should be represented as a tag team, fair enough, but understand I find that extremely forced and unjustified. I appreciate Sakurai's work but I'm not a "yes-man" to all his ideas and rationales. I don't think we'll agree on this, it's my opinion on detractions I hate against my most wanted and we've had this debate before and it went nowhere.

Lets just agree that any claim Banjo could use Duck Hunt specials is nothing short of insane

 

[Zem-raj]

I already got Ridley and King K.Rool, now my most wanted is Bandana Waddle Dee.

"He's just a Goomba with a hat"
"He's just a generic enemy with a bandana"
"Marx, Adeleine, and Magolor are more likely"
"He has a Spirit, therefore deconfirmed"
"He's boring, not unique"
"He has no moveset potential"
"Why waste a slot on him, when [insert spear user here] can be picked instead?"
"They already have the important Kirby characters in the game, why would they need him?"
"He's not important to the Kirby series"
"Picking him is scraping the bottom of the barrel"
"He's better off as an Assist Trophy"
"Why waste a slot on him, when they could have [insert promotional character here] or [insert third party character here]?"
"He has a generic name"

etc

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

That's all well and good, my point is that I disagree strongly with that sentiment. I strongly disagree that the partner up mechanic is a staple of the character more than it is a staple of the original trilogy. With Diddy already out of the count, we have Cranky who has no relation to Dixie in the games as a partner and Kiddy who is far from desired and if anything, is one of the complaints some people have of DKC3. Kiddy is really not important or major in the series, Funky is way more prominent and popular, and Kiddy has only partnered up with Dixie once, much like Tails and Knuckles (as well in Sonic Mania). Also Funky has never partnered up with Dixie so that isn't a faithful representation, Kiddy is the most faithful partner choice depressingly. I agree K. Rool did and should have taken priority.

At this point if you and Sakurai think Dixie inherently should be represented as a tag team, fair enough, but understand I find that extremely forced and unjustified. I appreciate Sakurai's work but I'm not a "yes-man" to all his ideas and rationales. I don't think we'll agree on this, it's my opinion on detractions I hate against my most wanted and we've had this debate before and it went nowhere.

Lets just agree that any claim Banjo could use Duck Hunt specials is nothing short of insane

Dixie being a tag team character wouldn't be forced. It's still a very notable aspect of her original design. Plus, characters are heavily used to represent their games at times too. Ness, Villager, Captain Falcon(his specials are very similar to the in-game abilities), Fox(same as Falcon). Nothing wrong with that. It's not forced in any way. It's a logical option for her. I do agree it's not a necessity whatsoever. I just don't see it as a problem in any way. Having two characters who make excellent partners going together is fine. Funky last I checked isn't really a proper partner character in any game, though? The less use of Kiddy, the better, oy vey. Tails and Knuckles also team up quite a lot in media. It's sometimes with Sonic as well, but they're major friends and have each other's backs. They're not really good examples of characters who aren't willing to team up.

Agree to disagree, but "forced" is overstating it. The ideas work fine and don't do anything bad for the characters, since it only affects at most one move out of their many, still leaving them as interesting movesets to work with. Being a tag team is not a bad thing as a concept. It's whether it's done well(which considering all 3 DK series movesets are rather well made... there's some pretty good for it) or not that should be concerning. We only have one real fail of a transformation mechanic(Zelda/Sheik). PT still worked, it's just the other pointless stuff like Stamina and Weaknesses that made him bad in Brawl. Zelda was always too impossible to work with while Sheik was too good in comparison. They never meshed well. ZSS and Samus did work fine as a concept, there was just the problem of the Smash Ball being required to turn back into regular Samus. Otherwise you could fully play either one without being forced into another in your usual tournament. I mean, it's a flaw regardless. But we don't exactly know what issues Dixie had when she was cut, so we can't really say there were any flaws to a tag team idea with her either. We lack information. So theoretically, it can work very well. The last transformation character to appear is Ultimate's PT, who is significantly better than previous games, showing how well transformations can still work if done well like in this case.

And yeah, Duck Hunt =/= Banjo in any capacity beyond bare minimum concept of a bird and a mammal teaming up. Oy.

 

[KatKit]

"Even though the series sold well, people won't care about Style Savvy in Smash."

Okay, so it's new and it's relatively successful, and it's unique, and it's first party, and it's a series that has no playable reps thus far (yet it already has 3 songs in Smash), but people still won't care for some reason? Nonsense. I already bought the season pass, but I'd buy it again if they added a Style Savvy rep. It checks nearly every qualification people make up for why a character should be in Smash.

"Style Savvy's targeted market isn't the same as Smash Bros."

I'm like... THAT'S A POSITIVE THING, YOU FOOLS! Seriously, if it isn't Smash's demographic, both series would benefit from cross-promotion.

"It'd be too girly."

And? That's also a positive. Aside from like 2-3 characters max, the game lacks an ovaries-to-the-wall unapologetically feminine character with a moveset that reflects that. It's perfect for Smash: a game that has a duck/dog duo, a toy robot, a ninja/pirate/queen/Goddess/princess, a plant, and an Italian dude with a vacuum beating the crud out of each other. How uncomfortable with your own masculinity are you that you don't like the idea of having a stylist/entrepreneur/fashion model in your party fighter?

 

[Perkilator]

So…anyone got anymore hated arguments?

 

[Mogisthelioma]

So…anyone got anymore hated arguments?

A lot have been covered already.

I see new arguments against Bandana Dee (my most wanted) like every week but at this point I choose to ignore them.

 

[Ez Quinn]

I think some against Crash bandicoot and Spyro were “they couldn’t even make it into PlayStation All Star Battle Royale, so how could they get in smash if they’re not even popular enough to make into their home console’s version of smash”

Oh you’re right *cough cough I’m so sorry *cough cough *cough JOKER *cough cough cough.
Excuse me, I must be getting sick.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Steve isn't my most wanted, but man do I see a lot of stupid arguments about why he shouldn't be in.
The most laughable argument is that he wouldn't work because his animations are limited. Twelve year old kids on Youtube can make Minecraft animations and give the character life, are you telling me a triple A development team with a director like Masahiro Sakurai can't do any better?

 

[CardiganBoy]

"Not another animay character!"

 

[jamesster445]

I see this way too often for pretty much anyone.

"I don't know this character they obviously must suck."

Yeah and I didn't know what a "Shantae" was during the ballot so I educated myself. I'm sure there were plenty of Nintendo fans who didn't know what a Metal Gear was at one point or another. Your lack if knowledge is not an excuse to dismiss a character or the series they come from.

 

[ZagarTulip]

Jeena
"Getting licensing from Disney for a character from a defunct studio"
Idc I just want Spectrobes Characters in my Smash

"Spectrobes is too obscure for a Smash Character"
I mean it is a series of 3 games EXCLUSIVE to Nintendo. I would still want it

"Spectrobes is not currently Relevant"
I would agree but that doesn't change much imo

 

[Mamboo07]

Personally, if they add Bandana Dee and Magolor, I'd think Kirby would have a pretty satsifying roster for now.

Good idea, I would use Bandana Dee too along with Adeleine and Ribbon, Prince Fluff making 8 Kirby reps in my Super Smash Bros Eternity.
Edit: along with Keeby (Yellow Kirby)

 

[OnyanRings]

Porky : He's from a dead series.

I can't really argue with that but that stings :L

 

[jamesster445]

Porky : He's from a dead series.

I can't really argue with that but that stings :L

For a series that was dead since Brawl, Mother always gets new content in each new Smash game. Not to mention the huge aesthic upgrades made to Ness and Lucas in Ultimate though. Why not have a character.

 

[PhantomShab]

People who say Zelda can't have any newcomers with only 1 appearance since it has a rotating cast. Bonus points if they turn right around and defend Fire Emblem's bloat with that exact same argument.

 

[Idon]

People who say Zelda can't have any newcomers with only 1 appearance since it has a rotating cast. Bonus points if they turn right around and defend Fire Emblem's bloat with that exact same argument.

People tend to defend the status quo I find.

You can find dozen of posts arguing against every newcomer before they get in and then arguing against their exclusion in the next game.

 

[ZelDan]

People who say Zelda can't have any newcomers with only 1 appearance since it has a rotating cast. Bonus points if they turn right around and defend Fire Emblem's bloat with that exact same argument.

I mean, Impa exists...

Vaati has technically appeared in multiple games as well but I don't personally care about him. He hasn't really been a thing for a while now either.

 

[Luigifan18]

I mean, Impa exists...

Vaati has technically appeared in multiple games as well but I don't personally care about him. He hasn't really been a thing for a while now either.

As for me, I care a bit more about Vaati's moveset potential than Vaati as a character — I can't really think of any more iconic wind mages who aren't fourth-party (Aang).

 

[3DSNinja]

Crono has some wind moves and so does Black Mage

 

[wimbearn]

After K. Rool, I've sort of got my most wanted, but that just made me want the ones under him even more!
Heres some I could think of;

Lip (Panel De Pon); "She has never appeared outside of Japan !!!" Not Lip's fault, that's Nintendo. Also, when exactly did Lucas from Mother 3 get out of Japan? (outside Smash, which is what we want Lip to do as well.)

Chibi-Robo; "Zip Lash killed his franchise, he does not have any future!". True that the game did not sell very well, but it does not mean that the character itself is rubbish. Even so, that could be said for many franchises.

Skull Kid; "He is just a one shot character, he's not important, nor does he have a lot of moveset potential.", complete and utter bull****. The character has appeared 3 times in the mainline games, and it's the same Skull Kid. The Mask has a lot to do with the lore, and moves he has a lot of. Plus he is popular.

Geno; "Why does anyone even like a one-shot wooden irrelevant doll from 20 years back?". Uhm, that's biased. He has remained somewhat popular when it comes to Smash, and people do what they can to keep him alive, and look at how much that has payed off thus far. Geno is almost a lock now!

Black Shadow; "F-Zero is dead, and does not deserve a new character, and besides, you just want him to take over Ganondorf's moves." True, F-Zero itself might be dormant at the moment, and yes, I do want him as an echo, but not just as an echo, I'd take anything F-Zero related anyways, and with my favourite F-Zero pilot an Assist Trophy once again, I go to my third favourite (second is Falcon). Still, why is it so hard for people to see? I see people wanting Ninten as a bloody echo. (No offence to Ninten fans), but Earthbound got 2 characters already, and F-Zero only 1.

Dixie Kong; "She would only be an echo of Diddy Kong and she is not an Nintendo All-Star." After Chrom echo means a whole lot, really, so partly fine with the build being based on Diddy, but her moves could be very different. Also, how can not the second Nintendo heroine (after Samus) not be a bloody All-Star?


There are more, as can be seen by my signature, but I guess that does it for now.

I agree with the Lip one.

 

[RealPokeFan11]

Here to list a bunch of arguments I've heard from a few donkeys since character speculation started.

Bandana Dee: He's a "generic enemy"! We already have Piranha Plant for that!

Have you even played or watched footage of a Kirby game with Bandana Dee in action? He's his own character with his own moveset fit for Smash, and is one of Kirby's strongest allies. Regular Waddle Dees just walk around and sometimes float down with a parasol.

(My most wanted) Xurkitree: It can't get in because it's another electric type!

This is an invalid argument considering Sakurai has been proven to not consider the typing of a Pokémon when picking one for Smash. Take a look at Charizard and Incineroar being in the same game. Same with Pikachu and Pichu. Its chances are slim to none anyway due to being a very off the wall choice, but I still felt like discussing this one.

Reaper: All he does is shoot shotguns!!!!!!1!!1!1!

Sakurai made a moveset for a duck and a dog. He made a moveset for a yoga teacher who's job is making fat people lose weight. He made a moveset for a 2D stick figure. All of these examples are joke characters that required immense creativity, but Reaper is a character that already has fighting power, and don't forget he can turn into a ghost and teleport. Sakurai could easily come up with an extra move or two to fit him in Smash, even if it won't happen without Tracer getting in first.

Banjo-Kazooie: He's not happening becuz Minecwaft Steev is gunna get in!

While this one isn't as stupid as the others, and Steve had a really high chance of making it at the time, I still hated it because Banjo is a character who I feel really deserves to be playable, and a really good friend of mine will most likely buy a Switch with the game if Banjo becomes playable. Thankfully Banjo's case is starting to turn around for the better. Also, how can you not want Banjo in? He's a perfect fit!

The rest of these arguments are not for my most wanted, but I've seen them floating around Smashboards and I feel like sharing them. Most, if not all of these were from RTC, and from the same user who I will not mention.

Rhythm Girl: She can't get in because she's a dynamic woman with white skin, like Wii Fit Trainer!

Grovyle (PMD): He can't get in because he's a reptile and a plant character. Smash Bros should not become a vivarium!

Ravio: He can't get in because he's a 4th Link and hides his identity like Joker!

Monster Hunter: He can't get in because he is a male human!

Not only are these arguments extremely illegitimate, but Monster Hunters can be either male or female.
These were so hard for me to not laugh at when I first saw them, simply due to how utterly STUPID they were! What a donkey...

Very late edit before e3: Holy **** Banjo's case turned around so much it's unreal.

 

[Pikmin-ism42]

"Spectrobes is too obscure for a Smash Character"

Uh... No offense, but that's a fairly valid argument. Spectrobe represention would be completely out of left field, even for Smash Bros.

 

[Idon]

Uh... No offense, but that's a fairly valid argument. Spectrobe represention would be completely out of left field, even for Smash Bros.

Well... this is "most hated criticisms" and not "most illogical criticisms."

 

[Knight Dude]

I guess for Heihachi it'd be that he was in PSASBR, so he can't be in Smash, but we don't know if that even matters.

For Mega Man X I haven't heard a ton of arguments I outright "hate". I know he's unlikely, but I think he'd be cool as hell.

Worst I can think of is that he's in a Final Smash, but so is Chrom for Robin's FS so it isn't impossible, but not super likely either. I find it to be a little less of a lost cause than asking for an Assist who's role is more in-depth like Zero, Knuckles, Wily ect. And for all we know one day an Assist can become playable in the same game.

But for now, we at least have ONE example of a Final Smash character becoming playable and staying in said FS in the same game.

 

[Calamitas]

This is more of a general thing, but it really gets on my nerves if people go full devil's advocate to just dismiss any arguments that do point to a character making it into Smash.
Like, to use the example of Elma, here's a couple of common highlights:

• "Oh, maybe they just didn't put any music from X into Ultimate because they forgot or there's copyright reasons!" - Nevermind the fact that they got the music into Xenoblade 2 without any problems.
• "Maybe they didn't put any X Spirits into World of Light because the characters weren't popular enough and they wanted to have more popular Xenoblade characters in there!" - Because with the literal hundreds of Spirit battles in WoL, many of which are obscure as all hell, there was just no space to fit in an X Spirit somewhere.
• "Well maybe they just forgot to put X into the internal listing of games that Ultimate draws content from!" - Yeah, because that list just omitting games totally is a very common thing, and X isn't the glaring stand-out example.

. . .And so on. It should get my point across.

 

[Ben Holt]

Andross is too big.

 

[OnyanRings]

Andross is too big.

And "He's just a floating monkey head".

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

Mine is Beat. (From JSRF.)

Whenever I talk about Beat for Smash, people either react with 'who?' or 'why?'
The thing is, people say that Sega doesn't deserve a third rep.
At the same time, however, I feel like Sega, Capcom, Square Enix and Konami kind of get a free pass. After all, all of them are linked significantly with Nintendo.

People say he's not affiliated with Nintendo in any way, yet he's been in practically every Sega Sports title (including the All-Stars Racing series and Superstars Tennis), many of which were exclusive to Nintendo Consoles.

People say he's 'irrelevant,' which I understand. It's my most hated criticism of any character though, because Beat is irrelevant and yet forgotten characters like Geno, who has only been in one game ever escapes this argument completely. In fact, a lot of fan favourites count here. In fact, a list below will show what the Smash Roster for Ultimate would look like if 'irrelevance' was the key.



That's it. All of the other characters would be considered 'old' or 'forgotten.' Fan favorites like Captain Falcon, K. Rool and Cloud wouldn't make it. Most of the Pokémon. Even Bayonetta's alts from Bayonetta 1 and the Koopaling alts for Bowser Jr would be got rid of, because of relevance, and as for fan picks; well, characters like Chrono, Issac, Banjo-Kazooie, Dixie Kong and Krystal would be out of the running instantly, and the support for these characters is immense. (Don't get me wrong, I want them in too )

Simply put, Beat can happen if Sakurai wants it. After all, if he can put a peripheral (R.O.B) in Smash, represent forgotten titles like Ice Climber, Game and Watch and Kid Icarus, and include pure originality in Wii Fit Trainer, and Piranha Plant, he can do what he wants, basically, and probably do a good job of it.

 

[Ben Holt]

And "He's just a floating monkey head".

I used to think that floating characters were disqualified from Smash Bros. because they wouldn't make sense with Smash's gravity. But Bowser Jr. was the final nail in the coffin for me. Mewtwo and Cloud float while running. Kirby, Charizard, Meta Knight, Dedede, Pit, Dark Pit, Palutena, and Ridley can literally fly.
But Bowser Jr. is literally always hovering above the ground, yet he falls like every other character.
Floating isn't an argument.

 

[Ze Diglett]

People say he's 'irrelevant,' which I understand. It's my most hated criticism of any character though, because Beat is irrelevant and yet forgotten characters like Geno, who has only been in one game ever escapes this argument completely.

While I agree with the general principle of your post, no, Geno does not escape the "muh irrelevant" argument. He still gets that **** on the daily. And if he truly were "forgotten" like you say, we wouldn't have so many people pulling for his return, now, would we?

 

[Deleted member]

For Crash Bandicoot I don’t remember any argument against him that I hate.

But for Eight, the anime and swordmen argument by a mile.

 

[Super10ZX]

For my most wanted character Fawful:

“He’s not an important Mario character, why should he get in?”
Invalid argument now that we have Piranha Plant.

“He hasn’t been relevant in years”
Wrong. The Superstar Saga and Bowser’s Inside Story remakes, while obviously being remakes, have made Fawful much more relevant recently, especially with him being the main villain of Minion Quest, and BIS being his biggest game (as well as leading the villains of Bowser Jr.’s Journey).

“The BIS remake sold poorly”
What does that have to do with his chances of getting into Smash again?

Those are all the arguments I can think of right now.

 

[helloiamhere]

"If you don't count remakes, spin offs, cameos, secret outfits, and references Erdrick hasn't been in a game since 1988. IRRELIVANT"
"It might have been the second best selling series on the NES right behind Mario but Japanese sales do not count in this Japanese game"
"He's an anime jrpg swordsman and Smash has enough of those"

I could see the point for the last one but as if everyone on this website wasn't going crazy at the possibility for Isaac until November.

 

[Sari]

"We have Ryu, so there can't be anymore fighting game characters like Terry."

 

[Idon]

"We have Ryu, so there can't be anymore fighting game characters like Terry."

And then Joker, another 3rd party JRPG character gets in, and people are STILL holding to the ONE REP PER GENRE mentality smh.

 

[UserKev]

The "over representation of archers" in Smash was a dumb argument against Decidueye, I admittedly used this argument for the desperation of my own most wanted.

Decidueye's arrows could have a ghost aesthetic to them with a gimmick that allows you to control its aim akin to how Yoshi's egg throw works.

 

[volbound1700]

The fact that franchises should be treated equally when it comes to character representation. There is no evidence of this, even with the third-party (NAMCO getting one vs. Konami, Sega, and Capcom getting three characters). The First parties are the same way. I think Sakurai just looks at moveset potential and enjoyment. I also think with First Parties, he has added more stages to Franchises with less characters to make up for their lack of characters. (i.e. Legend of Zelda vs. Fire Emblem. Zelda has ton of stages while Fire Emblem has ton of characters. You can say the same thing with the Donkey Kong Franchise)