What is your most hated criticism against your most wanted character?

Jomosensual

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"They wouldn't fit in Smash" - Nathan Drake and Lara Croft

How many of the characters on the roster of 80+ feel odd and out of place? The answer is somewhere between 0 and 0. Sakurai will figure out how to make them work for the game. ____ wouldn't fit into Smash is a really lazy way to hide someone saying that they just don't want someone in without coming up with a good arguement


"Too obscure"

Isn't that a reason FOR a character to get in?
Obscurity is a reason for a character to be added into Smash? You might have to explain this one a little bit.
 

UserKev

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"They wouldn't fit in Smash" - Nathan Drake and Lara Croft

How many of the characters on the roster of 80+ feel odd and out of place? The answer is somewhere between 0 and 0. Sakurai will figure out how to make them work for the game. ____ wouldn't fit into Smash is a really lazy way to hide someone saying that they just don't want someone in without coming up with a good arguement
I was admittedly salty when Simon Belmont was revealed but after watching even the Castlevania Netflix series, its oddly specifically Nintendo, aesthetically and has heavy Nintendo history. Its badass.
 

Mental Surge

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(Geno)
"he was only in one game and it was released over 20 years ago."

Except Duck hunt was in one game and was released in the 80's. Not to mention there are tons of characters that don't deserve to be in smash like WFT.
 

Swamp Sensei

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Not to mention there are tons of characters that don't deserve to be in smash like WFT.
Well here's my least favorite argument.

"Deserving" is thrown around by fans and I can't stand it. It doesn't mean anything and its somehow used like an killing blow in an argument.

More over, its often used against characters that don't just appeal to a certain demographic.

I mean ****, if Wii Fit Trainer, a character from a IP that sold metric ****tons of copies and is a face of the casual era of Nintendo, is somehow not deserving, then my favorites like Lloyd, Phoenix Wright, Bandana Waddle Dee and Elma certainly aren't.

What ****ing hope do I have? What hope does Geno have for that matter anyways if the bar is somehow that high? Why are any of us hoping for our favorites if they don't deserve to be in?

It's such a trash mindset. It ignores fans characters have, ignores history the characters have, and ignores anything of value any character can bring to the table.

The argument is poo poo.

Don't like it.
 
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crazybenjamin

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"Deserving" is thrown around by fans and I can't stand it. It doesn't mean anything and its somehow used like an killing blow in an argument.
Adding to this: no one can agree on what defines a "deserving" character in the first place: with the metric I use, WFT is infinitely more deserving than Geno, but of course, not everyone will see things the same way.
 
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Speed Weed

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Well here's my least favorite argument.

"Deserving" is thrown around by fans and I can't stand it. It doesn't mean anything and its somehow used like an killing blow in an argument.

More over, its often used against characters that don't just appeal to a certain demographic.

I mean ****, if Wii Fit Trainer, a character from a IP that sold metric ****tons of copies and is a face of the casual era of Nintendo, is somehow not deserving, then my favorites like Lloyd, Phoenix Wright, Bandana Waddle Dee and Elma certainly aren't.

What ****ing hope do I have? What hope does Geno have for that matter anyways if the bar is somehow that high? Why are any of us hoping for our favorites if they don't deserve to be in?

It's such a trash mindset. It ignores fans characters have, ignores history the characters have, and ignores anything of value any character can bring to the table.

The argument is poo poo.

Don't like it.
THANK. YOU.
 

asia_catdog_blue

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Do "fanrules" still matter to the Smash community? Since Melee, they have been pretty held on... till Sakurai chipped that mindset.

"Only Nintendo-made characters can be in Smash!" Snake broke that rule, opening the floodgates.

"Only Characters that had Games on Nintendo Systems can be in Smash!" Cloud broke that rule! Opening the floodgates ever further!

"Only Video Game Characters can be in Smash!" ...for now?
 

MisterHollywood

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Do "fanrules" still matter to the Smash community? Since Melee, they have been pretty held on... till Sakurai chipped that mindset.

"Only Nintendo-made characters can be in Smash!" Snake broke that rule, opening the floodgates.

"Only Characters that had Games on Nintendo Systems can be in Smash!" Cloud broke that rule! Opening the floodgates ever further!

"Only Video Game Characters can be in Smash!" ...for now?
The last one is an actual rule that Sakurai has said time and time again though
 

Swamp Sensei

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"Only Characters that had Games on Nintendo Systems can be in Smash!" Cloud broke that rule! Opening the floodgates ever further!
To be fair, this one hasn't been broken yet.

It's just cameos and spinoffs seems to count, if what Sakurai's interviews state.
 

Lionfranky

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Adding to this: no one can agree on what defines a "deserving" character in the first place: with the metric I use, WFT is infinitely more deserving than Geno, but of course, not everyone will see things the same way.
But that argument depends on context and circumstance.

For example, can you say Neptune from Neptunia is more deserving than Sora, Ryu Hayabusa, Master Chief?
 

Mental Surge

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Well here's my least favorite argument.

"Deserving" is thrown around by fans and I can't stand it. It doesn't mean anything and its somehow used like an killing blow in an argument.

More over, its often used against characters that don't just appeal to a certain demographic.

I mean ****, if Wii Fit Trainer, a character from a IP that sold metric ****tons of copies and is a face of the casual era of Nintendo, is somehow not deserving, then my favorites like Lloyd, Phoenix Wright, Bandana Waddle Dee and Elma certainly aren't.

What ****ing hope do I have? What hope does Geno have for that matter anyways if the bar is somehow that high? Why are any of us hoping for our favorites if they don't deserve to be in?

It's such a trash mindset. It ignores fans characters have, ignores history the characters have, and ignores anything of value any character can bring to the table.

The argument is poo poo.

Don't like it.
Except WFT is not a character. It's joke that was put in tot he game as a meme. ALso your lgoic makes no sense. To say that there is no way of quanitying how much a character is 'deserving' of being in a game mean that you don't know what you are talking about. If all video game characters were equally as deserving as being in the game, then why wouldnt they put a Goomba in instead of Mario? Your stupidity is leading to put every character int he same category. Sorry idiot, you may not like it but Bandana Dee does not deserve to be in the game over Doomguy, Shantae, ect. Your mindest of "let's put in whatever character we want just because we can" is much worse.

THANK. YOU.
You are an idiot just like him lol. Yes, there is no way we can gauge how deserving a character is of being in the game, right? By that logic, let's just ad 6 new Splatoon characters. Or how about 10 different types of goombas from all the different mario games. In fact, why is Mario even in the game if he is no more deserving of it than a goomba?

No really, answer that. Why is Mario in the game? If your answer is anything other than "they picked him at random" then you just admitted that there are ways of quantifying how deserving a character is of being in the roster.
 

crazybenjamin

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If all video game characters were equally as deserving as being in the game, then why wouldnt they put a Goomba in instead of Mario?
In fact, why is Mario even in the game if he is no more deserving of it than a goomba?
No really, answer that. Why is Mario in the game?
I don't know, why do people always overlook Toad when it comes to potential new Mario reps?

If WFT being a "meme" and "not a character" (whatever that means) was such a problem, then Geno being a mere footnote in the Mario series is a problem as well. If you really think that the game has characters that aren't deserving, that isn't an excuse to add even more characters that are "undeserving."
 

Beth Uriel

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Meme characters don't exist in the context of Smash(since the only meme characters would be ones like Pepe. Meme characters literally were created in the first place as a meme. Many characters have memes associated with them, like Captain Falcon and Waluigi).. Everybody is added for actual reasons. Characters do however get programmed into certain archtypes. The only two Joke Characters in Smash history are Jigglypuff(this is why its shield breaking sends it flying enough to outright be Star KO'd) and Pichu(intentionally hurts itself and is weaker overall than Pikachu).

Wii Fit Trainer basically was from a great selling game was added to be a character people wouldn't normally see coming. Yeah, that doesn't make sense to call it a "meme" or "joke". There's nothing meme about them(especially as the memes came up after s/he was revealed for Smash), and they don't have a joke moveset either. They're a very awkward character to use, but they're not intentionally weak either way.

Avatars are no less individual characters. A character is just someone in a story with a role. That's literally it. They don't have to be unique to be a character. Some are just species. WFT is frankly more unique than unnamed Class-based characters like Pokemon Trainer and Villager, who aren't specific people, but just loosely based upon popular designs. In fact, the first Class-based character where the "designs" matter is Hero, and that's because they wanted to include multiple Heroes so refer to them by name. Oddly enough Pokemon Trainer never got this, only loosely mentioning Leaf, but Red literally doesn't exist in Smash beyond "happens to be the design". He's 100% de-personalized for the sake of making it a class so anybody can name the character.
 

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Except WFT is not a character. It's joke that was put in tot he game as a meme. ALso your lgoic makes no sense. To say that there is no way of quanitying how much a character is 'deserving' of being in a game mean that you don't know what you are talking about. If all video game characters were equally as deserving as being in the game, then why wouldnt they put a Goomba in instead of Mario? Your stupidity is leading to put every character int he same category. Sorry idiot, you may not like it but Bandana Dee does not deserve to be in the game over Doomguy, Shantae, ect. Your mindest of "let's put in whatever character we want just because we can" is much worse.
Who said they picked characters at random?

I didn't.

You said I did, but I didn't.

I said, "deserving" is bad. Because it's used without any meaning. You'd have figured that out, if ya read my post.

Characters are picked due to popularity, move set potential, what they can represent, what they can advertise, who they can attract, and what makes developers happy. There are reasons characters are included.

But people throw the term "deserving" without any meaning. And say who "isn't deserving" without any meaning.

It's a cop out.

You think Doom Slayer should be in? Good, I'd love Doom Slayer. BUT TELL ME WHY HE SHOULD BE IN! Would he make people happy? Would he be fun to play? Would he bring a lot of attention to Smash? What? Actually give me an argument! Something that shows you give a ****.

Do you see what I'm getting at? I want discussions! I don't want people to just say "nah X doesn't deserve it," because that's been thrown around so much that it's lost its meaning.

You are an idiot
Hey, you got a problem with me, you keep it with me. He didn't respond to you at all.

Don't be the guy who calls everyone who doesn't agree with you, an idiot.

All that said...

Except WFT is not a character. It's joke that was put in tot he game as a meme.
That's my second least favorite argument. That's two for two!
 
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TheCJBrine

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The deserving argument is an annoying one for me, too.

Can you argue some characters are more iconic than others/are bigger faces? Sure, but as we’ve seen, even less iconic characters can get in, as long as they’re popular, have something to offer in terms of gameplay or marketing, could be fun, the devs like them/make some deal, or all of the above. (also by “iconic” I mean representative of gaming as a whole. I know this term gets to be pretty subjective since it really is even when thinking of the bigger picture; like, you could say Mario is one of the most iconic videogame characters if not at the top, but of course someone who doesn’t play Mario nor know much about his games may think differently)

It’s also annoying because it’s entirely based on opinion, yet some people push it as fact or even seem to try and force it on others to get them to shut up. When a lot of people use this argument, they tend to make it seem like they only ever use it to put other people’s picks down (and sometimes the people themselves as well) just because they don’t like them and can’t accept that other people have differing opinions; especially so when they get to extremist levels of hate, how they behave making it clear they want others to shut up just for wanting a videogame character they love in a videogame crossover. Heck, sometimes people’s arguments just contradict themselves and are actually more in favor of the character they’re trying to argue against.

Can people personally see their characters as being deserving for whatever reason? Of course, but spouting stuff like “my favorite character deserves it more than yours!” is incredibly annoying and childish, and it won’t accomplish anything anyway. It’s a horrible argument.
 

zumaddy

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There are some legit reasons to not believe Rex and Pyra are coming (I acknowledge em myself) but "Rex is a Mii costume" is not one of them.
 
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Uhh... people might be mad that Crash is in because he only just started his reboot? People might not like Polar to be in his moveset as a Side B?? There's enough cartoony characters in Smash???

I dunno, this thread is derailing from it's original purpose like I've heard they tend to do. I'm just trying for once to do something good on this site and get things back on track.
 

Swamp Sensei

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Uhh... people might be mad that Crash is in because he only just started his reboot? People might not like Polar to be in his moveset as a Side B??
I don't even understand these arguments. Especially the polar one.

Why do people say Polar can't be in Crash's moveset? Like why?
 

BernkastelWitch

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"Too niche" or "Literally who". This isn't on one most wanted but a plethora of Wanted characters. It feels like if your character isn't part of a very small handful of characters the fandom talks about, they're deemed as an absolute nobody and you get shamed for bringing them up with people saying they're "too niche" or they're a "Who".

And trust me, as someone who wants characters like Reimu, Travis Touchdown, Monokuma, Sol Badguy, and Kazuma Kiryu, a huge chunk of them get that and it gets annoying when you make a good reasoning for them and all you get is "Too niche" or "Lol who?" as a response.
 
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I don't even understand these arguments. Especially the polar one.

Why do people say Polar can't be in Crash's moveset? Like why?
I just saw this one post about it, don't ask me why that's a bad thing. Personally, I think it could work!
But I'm not here to discuss anyways.
 

Guynamednelson

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"Making it so a character's AT is disabled when someone's playing as them would require work on par with simultaneously rewriting the Bible on one hand, the LotR trilogy including The Hobbit in the other, and Subspace Emissary Worlds Conquest with your toes."
 

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My most wanted changes between three characters, depending on how I'm feeling or what I've played recently. Two criticisms that bug me are "they're irrelevant" or "they're too violent to be toned down."

Relevancy, as an argument, should have died with the reveal of K. Rool or Banjo at the absolute latest. Even in Melee, the Ice Climbers should have made it clear that relevance isn't the be-all and end-all of why Smash characters get chosen. On that note, it's kind of crazy that we're further away from Melee than Melee was from the original release of Ice Climber.

As for toning a character down, it's been done, both in Smash (Bayonetta, Joker) and in other games (Injustice: Gods Among Us, Soul Calibur) without any issue. Saying that a character "can't be toned down for Smash" is like saying that Ridley's too big for Smash - it just seems lazy on the part of the person making that argument. If, for example, Sub-Zero made it into Smash, nobody's going to expect him to start tearing out someone's spine in Smash Bros. - he can hit hard and have brutal-looking moves without relying on the over-the-top gore that made Mortal Kombat famous (and controversial).

Also, while it doesn't apply to my most wanted at the moment, one argument that I dislike is saying that a character "wouldn't fit in Smash". (as someone who wanted Snake to return, I heard that a LOT) Even in the first game, you wouldn't expect the worlds of Kirby and F-Zero to mesh well together, and yet Smash combined them anyway. It's a crossover game involving dozens upon dozens of properties from various companies - they're not all going to fit together perfectly, and that's part of the fun.
 
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SSBCandidates

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She dresses too skimpy.

She was never relevant, Nightmare is the mascot, the symbol and the actual main character of the series.

You just want her because you are a perv.

Sakurai (more like ZERO) will never let her in!

She is too white.

Those are the ones I get on Sophitia. As for Cassandra who I view as a echo/skin:

If her big sister can't get into Smash, much less her little sister who is way more irrelevant!
 

Jomosensual

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My most wanted changes between three characters, depending on how I'm feeling or what I've played recently. Two criticisms that bug me are "they're irrelevant" or "they're too violent to be toned down."

Relevancy, as an argument, should have died with the reveal of K. Rool or Banjo at the absolute latest. Even in Melee, the Ice Climbers should have made it clear that relevance isn't the be-all and end-all of why Smash characters get chosen. On that note, it's kind of crazy that we're further away from Melee than Melee was from the original release of Ice Climber.

As for toning a character down, it's been done, both in Smash (Bayonetta, Joker) and in other games (Injustice: Gods Among Us, Soul Calibur) without any issue. Saying that a character "can't be toned down for Smash" is like saying that Ridley's too big for Smash - it just seems lazy on the part of the person making that argument. If, for example, Sub-Zero made it into Smash, nobody's going to expect him to start tearing out someone's spine in Smash Bros. - he can hit hard and have brutal-looking moves without relying on the over-the-top gore that made Mortal Kombat famous (and controversial).

Also, while it doesn't apply to my most wanted at the moment, one argument that I dislike is saying that a character "wouldn't fit in Smash". (as someone who wanted Snake to return, I heard that a LOT) Even in the first game, you wouldn't expect the worlds of Kirby and F-Zero to mesh well together, and yet Smash combined them anyway. It's a crossover game involving dozens upon dozens of properties from various companies - they're not all going to fit together perfectly, and that's part of the fun.
Curious on what your opinion on the too irrelevant for DLC argument is(this goes for everyone, not just Doomer). While I think there's no such thing as too irrelevant for Smash in general I think some characters should be base roster only and don't make sense for DLC, where people are buying specific characters instead of a game.

Also, have happy to see someone else bring up the doesn't fit into Smash argument. That one is the most lazy argument out there and I've never seen anyone argue it well. We have 80 something characters right now and 0 of them feel like they don't fit. The only one remotely close is Cloud, and that's only because SE won't allow them to use anything above the bare minimum of Final Fantasy content
 

jamesster445

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My most wanted changes between three characters, depending on how I'm feeling or what I've played recently. Two criticisms that bug me are "they're irrelevant" or "they're too violent to be toned down."

Relevancy, as an argument, should have died with the reveal of K. Rool or Banjo at the absolute latest. Even in Melee, the Ice Climbers should have made it clear that relevance isn't the be-all and end-all of why Smash characters get chosen. On that note, it's kind of crazy that we're further away from Melee than Melee was from the original release of Ice Climber.

As for toning a character down, it's been done, both in Smash (Bayonetta, Joker) and in other games (Injustice: Gods Among Us, Soul Calibur) without any issue. Saying that a character "can't be toned down for Smash" is like saying that Ridley's too big for Smash - it just seems lazy on the part of the person making that argument. If, for example, Sub-Zero made it into Smash, nobody's going to expect him to start tearing out someone's spine in Smash Bros. - he can hit hard and have brutal-looking moves without relying on the over-the-top gore that made Mortal Kombat famous (and controversial).

Also, while it doesn't apply to my most wanted at the moment, one argument that I dislike is saying that a character "wouldn't fit in Smash". (as someone who wanted Snake to return, I heard that a LOT) Even in the first game, you wouldn't expect the worlds of Kirby and F-Zero to mesh well together, and yet Smash combined them anyway. It's a crossover game involving dozens upon dozens of properties from various companies - they're not all going to fit together perfectly, and that's part of the fun.
The violence argument is dumb. People kind of forget that in Wreck it Ralph (a PG Disney movie which is kind of the film equivalent of an E10 game rating) Kano actually rips the heart out of a zombie. If there's one thing I learned from watching Alita Battle Angel, you can get away with so much violence as long as there isn't a single drop of blood.

As for the whole doesn't fit into Smash. That's why it's so beautiful. Snake interacting with overall wierdness of the Nintendo worlds through the Codec calls is still the greatest thing ever. Having these clashing art styles is one of the best things about Smash. I've recently become a Diablo supporter just because of how funny it would be to have Satan get tossed around by a fishing rod.
 
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zumaddy

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"They don't fit in Smash/They're too different' is a poor argument the majority of the time it's used, just look at FP1. None of these really overlap except for some bits of Persona 5 and Three Houses. Joker looks very different from Banjo, Terry looks different from Byleth. Joker and Terry have quite a few catchphrases, Hero says nothing at all, Banjo makes cartoony animal noises etc.

The only argument I'd accept for "They don't fit in Smash" if they were straight up from a hentai game or something similar. Even then, there's wiggle room, such as the JP version of Fates can get a tad raunchy and Corrin is in.

FP.jpg
 
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lady_sky skipper

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Any shmup character such as Mao-Mao from Aero Fighters, Opa-Opa, The Wayne Bros from Battle Garegga or Tiat and Proco from Darius:

"There are no characters in shmups, it'd just be a plane!"

"They only fly planes it'd be impossible to make a moveset for them!"

"Touhou Project is the only feasible shmup series you can have a fighter from!" (To be fair, I kinda low key want Marisa for Smash because she's a fun anti hero and I wanna play more of the series but I get annoyed when people think they're the only shmup characters to exist.)
 

Hollywoodrok12

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Bandana Dee: "Hat Goomba"

Euden: "From a mobile game"

Phoenix Wright: "He was already in UMvC3"

Spring Man: "Too generic/boring. We'd rather have Min Min/Twintelle/[Insert ARMS character]" & "No! Then Waluigi would have a chance!"

I'd also have one for Shantae, but "Too Obscure" has some legitimate backing behind it.
 

Pokelego999

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Too many FE characters, anime swordsman, only horny people want them, etc.
In short, my Fire Emblem obsession is not popular in speculation.
 
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