What is your most hated criticism against your most wanted character?

[SharkLord]

I honestly wonder how he would work as a proper fighter. His whole thing is that he only has 1HP, but can dodge all your attacks until he gets tired. That seems like it would either be really annoying to fight against, or it would make him a terrible character. They'd probably be better off just making him a lightweight with a strong combo game or something.

I mean, not everyone has to be an exact, 1-to-1 match with their home series. He can just be a sluggish glass cannon with emphasis on the cannon part.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Sans is supposed to be very weak though.

He's only hard cause he cheats.

 

[SharkLord]

Sans is supposed to be very weak though.

He's only hard cause he cheats.

Then he'll cheat in Smash too. Give him horrendously godmodded projectiles that hover in the air for all his normals instead of giving him standard melee moves. As a trade-off, give him next-to-no defensive capabilities at all. Make him the memiest, saltiest, normiest scrub-killing character possible; He is SANS **********ING UNDERTALE and he will embrace is wholeheartedly.

 

[Perkilator]

Not really a criticism, but I still found a pretty dumb reason to exclude a character; Excitebiker was going to be a fighter in Melee, but Sakurai dropped the idea because he wasn’t sure about how to make them jump. I know this was Melee days, but I still found this reason kinda dumb when any motorcyclist can jump in real life.

 

[SharkLord]

Not really a criticism, but I still found a pretty dumb reason to exclude a character; Excitebiker was going to be a fighter in Melee, but Sakurai dropped the idea because he wasn’t sure about how to make them jump. I know this was Melee days, but I still found this reason kinda dumb when any motorcyclist can jump in real life.

To be fair, he also ditched the Villager, Pac-Man, and the Miis in Brawl because he couldn't imagine them fighting, and look where we are now. I wonder if Sakurai ever looks back on his earlier days and shakes his head sometimes, going "Wow, did I really make that decision?"

 

[Janx_uwu]

"But they're an ASSIST TROPHY!!!!!1!!!11!!"
In a world where the fans created their own "rule" for no good reason and Min Min broke it down like an old Apple commercial, it's funny how people think Shadow, Waluigi, and Issac are ruled out for the sole reason that they exist in the game in some form other than a fighter. There's nothing barring Shadow from breaking down his wall as well.

 

[StrangeKitten]

Not really a criticism, but I still found a pretty dumb reason to exclude a character; Excitebiker was going to be a fighter in Melee, but Sakurai dropped the idea because he wasn’t sure about how to make them jump. I know this was Melee days, but I still found this reason kinda dumb when any motorcyclist can jump in real life.

Makes sense, given Melee's rushed development and technical limitations. I can see why an always-on-bike fighter would have been very difficult to make work back then. But it's a shame they never went back and added him. You'd think, after Wario started riding his bike in Brawl, they would have been able to make Excitebiker work in Smash 4 or Ultimate, but alas, here we are.

 

[MintPepsi]

"He's too stiff"
"He's a blank slate"
"He's a meme"
"He has no personality"
"Minecraft is cringe"

 

[Michael the Spikester]

"He has no personality"

Which shouldn't even be a thing given

 

[jamesster445]

"He's too stiff"
"He's a blank slate"
"He's a meme"
"He has no personality"
"Minecraft is cringe"

That wasn't a problem in the end now was it.
Villager, Byleth, Joker, Hero
How so?
Again see Villager, Byleth etc
... Chair Theory

 

[CheeseAnton]

I don't really hear anyone ever talk about Dwight Fairfield/Survivor or Trapper when it comes to getting into Smash, so could anyone come think up with arguments why they shouldn't be in?

I guess I'll argue against the criticisms of Steve haters on why he shouldn't get in:
"He wouldn't look right in Smash bros."
Yeah, but that would be the charm of him, I mean just look at him in Smash Bros. now... wait.

"Kazuma Kiryu would just be another Little Mac."
Absolutely not true. Sure, both can punch, but Kiryu also involves kicking. They also dramatically differ in fighting styles, and for good reasons. Little Mac only punches above the waist in his games in official wrestling (and I don't even think he can touch the face, only the under part of their head). Kiryu on the other hand will punch you in the face, slam you into the floor, and stomp on your head, and if you're fighting you better pray there aren't any railings/weapons for some reason/walls/literally everything including a blade of grass as he'll somehow turn it into a blade in your...

"We already got a Sega DLC from the fighter pass"
If Microsoft gets 2 DLC buddies, so can Sega.

"He would be too mature for this game. Someone who kills hundreds but somehow doesn't, that was ex-Yakuza, who curbstomps would be too mature"
aw, dang. you beat me there, how sad, I can't think of anything to counter that.

Spoiler

oh god oh no, what's this teenage rebel from a game that's opening is about a woman trying to game end herself from likely bad touching abuse doing here?

oh no, what's this picture of a supersolider that killed people that uses grenades doing here? oh noooooooooo
(I don't really think it's an excuse given much, but I just wanted to debate 3 points.)

 

[Lyncario]

I'm just going to post to this laughtably bad arguments on Gamefaqs that the poster tries to disguise as what most people expect from a 3rd party character

Which of these "potential" newcomers has the most delusional fanbase? - Super Smash Bros. Ultimate

For Super Smash Bros. Ultimate on the Nintendo Switch, a GameFAQs message board topic titled "Which of these "potential" newcomers has the most delusional fanbase?" - Page 22.

gamefaqs.gamespot.com

 

[SharkLord]

I'm just going to post to this laughtably bad arguments on Gamefaqs that the poster tries to disguise as what most people expect from a 3rd party character

Which of these "potential" newcomers has the most delusional fanbase? - Super Smash Bros. Ultimate

For Super Smash Bros. Ultimate on the Nintendo Switch, a GameFAQs message board topic titled "Which of these "potential" newcomers has the most delusional fanbase?" - Page 22.

gamefaqs.gamespot.com

What do you mean, Steve is not third-party?!

 

[Deleted member]

I'm just going to post to this laughtably bad arguments on Gamefaqs that the poster tries to disguise as what most people expect from a 3rd party character

Which of these "potential" newcomers has the most delusional fanbase? - Super Smash Bros. Ultimate

For Super Smash Bros. Ultimate on the Nintendo Switch, a GameFAQs message board topic titled "Which of these "potential" newcomers has the most delusional fanbase?" - Page 22.

gamefaqs.gamespot.com

That whole thread is disgusting. Imagine calling a fanbase "delusional" for wanting a character, or even thinking they have a good chance of being in. Wow.

Anyways..

Master Chief:
"He would be too similar to Doomguy!"
This one is the one I hate the most, as fans of both characters. First off, have you even played Halo? They play completely different. Doom is run-and-gun. Halo is cover-based. You can't run-and-gun on Legendary, you'll just get yourself killed. Doom Eternal is the complete opposite of that, you're MEANT to get in close to get ammo and health back. You can't play Doom like Halo, and vice versa.

Two, the weapons. Halo has a wide variety of Covenant and UNSC weapons. And vehicles - Doom doesn't have any drivable vehicles at all.

Three, the music and characters. I don't need to explain this one. Just play the games, oh wait. The Smash community doesn't play games at all, they just hate on them instead, not even giving them a chance. Wonderful.

This is like saying Cloud, Joker and Hero play the same because they're from JRPGs. They don't. FPS characters have their own character, just like JRPGs. I personally think a lot of JRPG characters look similar, but I don't see anyone complaining about that. So why is this a double standard for FPS characters?

"Too many Microsoft reps!"
Oh, but Sega and Konami are okay? And Capcom?
Sega: Sonic, Bayonetta, Joker
Konami: Snake, Simon, Richter
Capcom: Mega Man, Ryu, Ken

And people think Capcom is likely to get another rep, giving them FOUR reps. Why is this okay, but not Microsoft?

"They chose Steve over him!"
That's what everyone said for Banjo in FP1. But that didn't stop them both being in.

I personally don't see the Chief as likely anymore after Steve got in, but these are still really dumb arguments regardless, and just goes to show how this community just doesn't play any other game besides Smash.

There's more I get annoyed at, like:
Shantae:
"Only pedos want this character!" Yes, I have seen this said unironically. Honestly, quite disgusting.

"No indie reps allowed!"
Steve was indie. May not be now because he's owned by Microsoft, but he used to be.

Rayman:
"He'd look weird."
So does Steve? But that's what makes him unique.

"What would they do for his amiibo?"
Look online. There's countless examples of what they could do.

"Ubisoft has their content already in Smash." (or some variation of "Ubisoft content already being present/Rabbids + Altair is in, Rayman isn't" etc)
I guess ARMS content was over after the base game, then? Or Microsoft after Banjo got in? And Square Enix content after Hero got in? Keep in mind the latter is still getting new spirit events, and is highly likely to get another rep.

Note that I haven't said anything about Geno because I am not opening that can of worms. But trust me, there's a lot of dumb arguments said against him too. But just as an example, the "Deluxe Mii Costume" crap is the worst. It drives me up the wall so much.

Why didn't they do that for Heihachi then, instead of bringing back his Smash 4 costume? Heihachi was a popular request. Heck, what about Travis? Doesn't he deserve a Deluxe Mii Costume, not just a regular costume? Wasn't he a popular request? They wouldn't waste time developing a new costume when they already have one ready. I hate this argument because it's always specifically applied to Geno, and not other characters like it should be.

 

[SharkLord]

Shantae:
"Only pedos want this character!" Yes, I have seen this said unironically. Honestly, quite disgusting.

Text is not needed. The image speaks for itself.

 

[Perkilator]

I thought this image was interesting:

 

[SharkLord]

I thought this image was interesting:
View attachment 289737

Cloud isn't even an ARPG half the time...

 

[spicynun]

My most hated criticism towards Phoenix Wright is "He has no moveset potential since he doesn't fight in his own game". I feel that criticism is silly considering that would just give the Smash team more freedom in creating their own moveset. Also this game has Wii Fit Trainer, Villager, Isabelle, R.O.B., Duck Hunt Dog, among others and they all have very unique creative movesets.

 

[Janx_uwu]

My most hated criticism towards Phoenix Wright is "He has no moveset potential since he doesn't fight in his own game". I feel that criticism is silly considering that would just give the Smash team more freedom in creating their own moveset. Also this game has Wii Fit Trainer, Villager, Isabelle, R.O.B., Duck Hunt Dog, among others and they all have very unique creative movesets.

Yeah, and that's not even mentioning the fact that he's been in MvC, so that alone is proof he has more than enough moveset potential.

 

[Watch_Doremi]

I always wanted Arle from Puyo-Puyo in, because it's one of my favorite all-time series, and it would be some AWESOME representation from a side of Sega that a sizable amount of people have never seen or experienced before, and her franchaise is quite popular, especially in Japan, so it wouldn't be too farfetched to have her in Smash (I mean, Steve got in, anything is posible). However:

generic anime character
yet another sega representative
literally who?
GENOGENOGENOGENOGENOGENO
would have to expend creative boundaries to make a good moveset
lol, pedophile

Amongst other things...

 

[DuskFleur]

For Sora, there’s two “arguments” that bother the crap out of me.

The first boils down to one word: Disney. They own the rights to the character, and because Disney isn’t purely a video game company and Sakurai’s only “no non video game stuff” rule, people will automatically say Sora shouldn’t be in the game. This is despite the fact that Sora is purely a video game character, but the question does remain on if any Disney content would get into Smash alongside him. If I had to make a generous guess, they would include the Disney Castle trio (Mickey, Donald, and Goofy) as Spirits/cameos due to their general importance to the series, and on the technicality that it’s these versions of the characters which solely exist in the KH video games, like how Dracula is a literary public domain character, but the one we have as a boss character in Smash is purely based on Castlevania’s interpretation of him. Any other Disney references would simply be subtle nods like in a Classic Mode route.

The second is Geno fan circlejerking, because Sora is a Square Enix developed character too and he’d hurt the little toy’s chances because...reasons. I don’t know.

 

[AceAttorney9000]

The second is Geno fan circlejerking, because Sora is a Square Enix developed character too and he’d hurt the little toy’s chances because...reasons. I don’t know.

Not sure what Geno thread you're getting this from, but the one on this site (which I frequent) doesn't do this. Regardless of their opinions on Sora or his chances, the Geno thread generally agrees that Sora doesn't affect Geno's chances since, as you just stated, Sora is owned by Disney and not Square Enix. It's not like Nintendo and the developers are gonna have a talk with Square Enix to get Geno into the game, only for Square to go "Nope, we want Sora instead."

 

[SharkLord]

Once there was a video that says Arle is unlikely because she's a girl, and apparently there is a one-girl limit in the pass or something. I've only heard of it so something might've been missed, but if true it's the biggest bruh moment I've ever seen.

 

[Megadoomer]

Once there was a video that says Arle is unlikely because she's a girl, and apparently there is a one-girl limit in the pass or something. I've only heard of it so something might've been missed, but if true it's the biggest bruh moment I've ever seen.

I'm pretty sure that was the video where they tried to predict which characters would get in using MATH, and I'm 99% sure that's satire, or mocking the idea that everything needs to have patterns. (it could be serious, but I doubt it, given the tone of the videos)

 

[SharkLord]

I'm pretty sure that was the video where they tried to predict which characters would get in using MATH, and I'm 99% sure that's satire, or mocking the idea that everything needs to have patterns. (it could be serious, but I doubt it, given the tone of the videos)

I would certainly hope it's satire, at least...
Please be satire...

 

[DrCoeloCephalo]

In the case of Waluigi, there are 3 big criticisms.

1. "He's an Assist Trophy!"

Yeah, so was Little Mac and Isabelle. So what if it was in previous games? No rule or law saying an update can't change that.

2. "He's a joke and a meme!"

Yeah, so was Game & Watch, Wario and Duck Hunt. It's not like characters weren't memed to oblivion regardless of Smash. Brawl came out during the 2008 era of YTP and we saw plenty of memes of Mario and Zelda thanks to Hotel Mario and Zelda CD-I games regardless of Smash.

3. "His fandom harrassed muh daddy Sakurai and sent him death threats!"

The article that started all that stupid drama provided absolutely no context or proof for that whole situation. As far as I can tell,it was all over a bunch of completely harmless memes.

Meanwhile, we have a user within the Smash fandom known by Smash Bandicoot whom has caused all kinds of drama speaking his absolute hatred towards the inclusion of Min-Min whilst also having posted a video you can still find called "Sakurai's Death in a Nutshell".

Yet, despite all this, there seems to be absolutely NO game journalists jumping on this topic and labeling the people whom support Crash Bandicoot in Smash as "ungrateful" amd looking for excuses to claim to be holier than them and pray to their daddy Sakurai to not inclue Crash in Smash because of this. That's what I call hypocrisy.

 

[Lamperouge]

"XC2 is irrelevant now and Nintendo has nothing to gain by adding Rex."

 

[SharkLord]

"XC2 is irrelevant now and Nintendo has nothing to gain by adding Rex."

Funny, I was just talking about how XC2 is still getting promotion alongside XC:DE in Japan.

 

[jamesster445]

would have to expend creative boundaries to make a good moveset

I don't get it, that's... literally the best part. How they intend to translate puzzle game mechanics into a fighting game character is fascinating and is the main reason I want Arle in.

Not to mention that so far the main theme of Volume 2 HAS been characters with unique mechanics.

 

[SharkLord]

I don't get it, that's... literally the best part. How they intend to translate puzzle game mechanics into a fighting game character is fascinating and is the main reason I want Arle in.

Not to mention that so far the main theme of Volume 2 HAS been characters with unique mechanics.

While I'm hesitant to call only two characters a theme yet, Sakurai managed to cram mining, crafting, and building into a single neutral special, even though he had to reprogram every level in the game to do so. If there's any game where boundaries can be stretched, it's Smash.

 

[Oddball]

Captain N isn't allowed because he's not a videogame character.

He's a character that was sucked into videogames, hangs out with video game characters, fights videogame villians using videogame equipment in a videogame world and is directly owned by Nintendo.

A 1st party character who's entire existence revolves around videogames isn't videogame enough for you?

 

[Pokelego999]

Captain N isn't allowed because he's not a videogame character.

He's a character that was sucked into videogames, hangs out with video game characters, fights videogame villians using videogame equipment in a videogame world and is directly owned by Nintendo.

A 1st party character who's entire existence revolves around videogames isn't videogame enough for you?

I mean he never appeared in a videogame per se.

 

[TheRockingGoomba]

"Rayman is already in Brawlhalla. Why would they put him in Smash?"

I have some bad news, Link is getting removed from the game next patch Nintendo just remembered that they put him in Soul Calibur.

 

[Mike 223]

I got the idea for this thread from here and GameFAQ, listening to reason as to why people don't want certain characters in Smash for the littlest of reasons. Sure there are some good and legitimate reason for why a character shouldn't be in Smash (Goku being a 4th party character/ Sora being a licensing nightmare), but some haters just bring in the most pettiest of reasons for why they shouldn't be in smash, and you get tired of that complain cause really it doesn't add anything against that character.

For example, People don't want Bandana Dee in Smash cuase they feel "it would be like putting a Goomba in Smash" or how people don't like the thought of Indie characters being playable in Smash.

Well My Only Wanted Got In So...... The Argument I Hated Was "He Wont Fit In" (character is steve)

 

[Aerospherology]

Well My Only Wanted Got In So...... The Argument I Hated Was "He Wont Fit In" (character is steve)

Who would you consider your second most wanted character then?

 

[Louie G.]

There are a few against Chorus Kids. The most contentious one for me is the assertion that not only would they be a poor representation of the series, but that "real" Rhythm Heaven fans would want someone else. Who knew I wasn't a real fan of Rhythm Heaven, and neither were the numerous other fans who stuck by them throughout Smash 4? There's clearly no potential in having a troupe of musicians represent the musical series with various teamwork based minigames, let alone the posterchildren for the most popular game (and my favorite game) in the series. Guess I should fork over my 100%ed Japanese copy of Rhythm Tengoku for GBA.

One that I dislike hearing for Arle is that the Puyo director said that he didn't want to see Arle in a fighting game. This isn't true - what he did say is that Puyo is a peaceful world and that he didn't want to make a dedicated Puyo fighting game. I highly doubt Nintendo would want to make an Animal Crossing fighting game either, but that didn't stop Villager or Isabelle from getting into Smash. With the right concept behind it I have a hard time imagining Sega saying no to Puyo in Smash, considering it's a series that they have been trying to bring into the western mainstream for years now. The pros outweigh the cons.

Honestly I feel like suggesting any company would turn down a character in Smash is more often than not a ridiculous point to make. Talking about expenses is one thing, if you're referring to someone like Sora, but I think people like to use this as an easy out for certain characters when just about every game dev ever would give Sakurai their house keys if he asked. Don't underestimate this man's ability to charm execs and sell a character concept.

Spoiler: The Real Answer

The worst thing I've heard against Arle though are the creeps whose minds immediately jump to calling Puyo characters "loli" and whatnot, assuming the worst of her fanbase and not wanting her for that reason. I've heard a similar train of thought toward Reimu or especially Ashley as well. Not only a gross assumption, but actually sexist too since I only hear it against female characters. Imagine how ridiculous it would sound if you called Ness a "shota" character? I'm immediately disgusted whenever somebody tries to pull that garbage.

Lastly is Morrigan. The worst argument against her is simple - "Smash is for good boys and girls". As someone who was around pre-Bayonetta and heard these exact points tossed around to gatekeep her (and I'll be honest, I bought into it at the time), I'm really disappointed that the censorship of Mai has put us back 5 years. Morrigan is seductive and sexy, she's riddled with innuendos and dark undertones... but so is Bayonetta. If you think shrinking Morrigan's bust a bit and covering up her cleavage (literally all you would need to do) ruins her character then I don't really know what to say. She's a lot more than that, and so is Darkstalkers. Not that I think she has a snowball's chance in hell, but this issue is massively overstated (I've seen it used toward characters like 2B also).

Felicia on the other hand? That would definitely be a challenge. Maybe we could put her in her nun outfit.

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

Not really a criticism, but I still found a pretty dumb reason to exclude a character; Excitebiker was going to be a fighter in Melee, but Sakurai dropped the idea because he wasn’t sure about how to make them jump. I know this was Melee days, but I still found this reason kinda dumb when any motorcyclist can jump in real life.

The same could be said about Balloon Fighter. He said "he would be useless without his Balloons", nevermind the fact that Balloon Fight got a Game Boy sequel in which you COULD DETACH YOUR BALLOONS (yes, Alice and Balloon Fighter are different characters, but when did Ness use PK Fire in Earthbound? or since when did Simon used Richter's moves?) as a main mechanic.

Then in Brawl, he added Olimar. A character who is pretty much useless in his home games without the aid of the Pikmin, and he clearly made up moves for the Up Tilt, Up Aerial, and Jabs.

 

[SharkLord]

Felicia on the other hand? That would definitely be a challenge. Maybe we could put her in her nun outfit.

Just put her in a Cat Mario suit and we'll be fine.

 

[M00NFIRE94]

That one guy telling you how their favorite character, X, is super famous and if they couldn't get in Smash, your favorite character, Y, won't 'cause X didn't so you should give up hoping for Y. Yeah that makes sense....

 

[Planet Cool]

I have three.

For Dixie Kong: "She'd just be an echo of Diddy!"

Look, if Ike isn't an echo of Marth and Hero isn't an echo of Link, then no, Dixie doesn't have to be an echo of anyone. Sakurai can make an original moveset for literally any character. Besides, Dixie's big gimmick is that she does everything with her prehensile hair. Double-jumping, floating, hitting enemies, grabbing items, etc. It's all unique stuff that Diddy can't do. If you think Dixie has to be an echo, that just means you haven't played enough DK games and don't know the character.

For classic/pig Ganon: "We already have three Links and two Zeldas. We don't need two Ganondorfs!"

Having Ganondorf but not Ganon is like having Sheik but not Zelda. Pig Ganon is in lots more games than Ganondorf, and that's how many of us old-school Zelda fans knew him first and love him best. Besides, Ganondorf is still a semi-clone of Captain Falcon and that'll probably never change. Doesn't the main villain of one of Nintendo's biggest series deserve an original moveset?

Another for Ganon: "He's just another Triforce holder."

This one is just silly. The Triforce barely figures into these characters' movesets at all. If you'd never played a Zelda game, you wouldn't even know that Link, Zelda and Ganondorf all have a part of the same magical doodad. With his trident, Fire Keese and teleportation, Ganon would be absolutely nothing like any other character in Smash, Triforce or no Triforce.