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Mike 223
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  • So I did a battle by damaging with only throws, it was hilarious.
    If Steve didn't have minecart, what do you think would replace it?

    My two ideas are either a bow or a shield, the bow just shoots arrows, and he could attach them to blocks to set up a trap by breaking the block and having the arrows fall down, he has a limited supply of 64 arrows (I realized this should be a stack lol), so he can't spam it too much, the arrows will remain on the ground until Steve picks it up by walking next to it, opponents can use the arrows against Steve by picking them up (similar to Link's arrows), depending on how long Steve holds the B button, it does 5 - 20% (No this doesn't mean it's like charge shot, Steve is not able to move after doing side B until he shoots or gets hit, making the arrow not fire.) If Steve uses up all his arrows by hitting opponents and didn't miss once, they'll automatically refresh, if he missed at least once he has to go pick up the arrow (Better aim them right) they have an arc when firing, how far they go depends on the charge, if Steve chooses to he can also aim the bow in 8 directions by holding the b button down and moving the left stick in a certain direction. After firing Steve is unable to act until he puts the bow away, so he's vulnerable for a good half second, meaning reflecting the arrow if it's not too far can lead to Steve getting hit instead. (This move can lead to some funny times where arrows are everywhere lol, FD but arrows.)

    The shield is simply a reflector, reflecting any projectile in front of Steve that the shield hits, behind Steve he's vulnerable, the shield has durability, taking 100% before breaking, Steve can repair his shield with 1 piece of iron and some wood, he has one at the start of the match, and if it breaks, Steve will do the blocking stance, but have no shield, if he does this you have a good opening.
    Mike 223
    Mike 223
    I'd go with the bow as well, it's more interesting than the shield idea and minecart.
    Counterpoint: The bow would give Steve even more stage control and he's already got plenty of that. Though a counter-counterpoint could be that removing minecart would get rid of one his fastest ways of mobility and put him more into the turtle archetype.
    Mike 223
    Mike 223
    Removing minecart also removes his best burst option as it's fast and strong with gold, now without it he only really has the sword bair and fair as a burst option (which to be fair can lead to 0-deaths) Steve is also vulnerable when using the bow, as he can't do anything until he shoots or is hit, and since the bow wouldn't go far with little charge (as it does in Minecraft) Steve is vulnerable for a good 2 seconds, the more stage control is a reasonable argument, but minecart is also a great help with stage control as it's a command grab, both moves are great for Steve and are busted in their own ways, bow gives Steve range and even more insane traps, and I don't need to explain Minecart. I personally think minecart is more broken since it's way faster and has some super armor to it, while bow it's much slower and leaves Steve wide open for attack while he does it, also the fact Steve can move around in minecart, and by inputting side B again (with gold) he can boost again.
    This player I just fought got the lead and started T-bagging, I instantly brought it back to even and t-bagged back just to see how they would react, I won and then they shut down the arena.

    Players like this are why this game can get so infuriating, yet it's so funny at the same time.
    I have no idea how top Steve's think Min-Min is a slight Steve favor, what kinda Min-Mins are you fighting where you can actually approach lol
    I see tons of people saying Steve is easy to learn.

    While I do agree that he's really broken in matches, I don't agree that he's easy to learn, I know from my own experiences playing as Steve that he takes hours and hours to master, resource management in fights is difficult against good opponents, and he has tons of tech that's almost as specific as EWGF.

    Anyone who says Steve is easy in rounds, you're right, once you learn everything, his superior tools make it easier to land kills and games with (Diamond killing at 60% and minecart's existence.)

    But anyone saying he's easy to learn clearly hasn't tried to learn any advanced Steve stuff like NILs and TBCs.
    Easy to play when mastered, ridiculously hard to learn. He is IMO a complete opposite of most top tiers. Most of them are decently easy to learn (Aegis, Wario, G&W, Cloud, Hero, etc) but dramatically increase in difficulty as their weaknesses show and people can exploit it like no tomorrow. Steve is harsh, unforgiving, brutally difficult to learn. But once you do, you can kinda just do the stuff you already know. You have muscle memory combos that you labbed so much that it’s ingrained in memory. You have the strong wall set ups that you needed to practice with for a while that is now incredibly easy for you. In a nutshell, everything is difficult until it isn’t, where other characters are easy until they aren’t. At least, that’s how I see it.
    Mike 223
    Mike 223
    Completely true, with Pythra for example I was absolutely destroying people before I even learned the staircase setup (Way before that, like before Kazuya was released), and then got completely annihilated, then Steve it was the opposite as soon as I learned stuff like the staircase setup, more technical combos, and NILs, went from getting destroyed to destroying (Until I match into a laggy spammer lol.)
    Remember what I said about Little Macs? How they are basically the chads of Smash?

    The one I just fought does not belong in the Little Mac council.
    So I joined this arena, the host's name was daylice, they played Min-Min and were T-bagging after every stock, eventually they changed the rules to a stock battle, I kept fighting them, eventually they seemed to get sick of me and waited for me to leave, I stayed in the ring, they eventually kicked me, then sent me a friend request with the name "I &*&@UGud."

    This is how you tell you're fighting a 9-year old.
    I need help, can anyone tell me what I can possibly do as Steve against Min-Min? I'm outta ideas.
    So I saw an arena titled "K rool vs DK" and I switched to DK because why not? Then the K rool, The Watari, t-bagged after every stock, I picked Steve and beat him 2-1, only lost by stooping down to his level and being toxic, losing my cool.

    The Watari, you belong in elite, get out of the battle arenas where we actually want to play the game instead of spamming and lag switching to win.
    I decided to mess around with my alts as Steve, and found I was doing better with Zombie then with Steve.

    This makes no sense, maybe I got more unlucky in online with lag on Steve or something.
    To all Little Mac players I've fought:

    You are the true chads of smash, you actually use skill to win, and don't SD at the sight I'm playing Steve, even though it's one of your bad matchups, you all are what I wished I ran into more often, actually good, chill players.
    I try to play Steve the least campy I can since it's not fun for anyone when you just stay behind a wall.

    Then everyone I match into anywhere, arenas, elite, all of them camp and spam me, forcing me to do the same.

    Ran into a Corrin just now whose username was "Uscrub" I could already tell this was gonna be fun, they resorted to cheap tactics and spam a lot of the time and t-bagged whenever they took a stock, clearly just wanted to tick me off and make me ragequit, but I rematched multiple times, really just amused by this, I ended up beating them in the last game, but I had to go unfortunately due to my switch being on low battery.

    That was probably the silliest gameplay I've ever seen lol.
    I was just fighting a Greninja, they were offstage on their last stock, I placed blocks but then saw that wouldn't work, accidentally input down air, and the down air hit them into the blocks and down to their doom, the dair wouldn't have killed otherwise.

    That was an "I totally meant to do that" Steve moment.
    Turns out battle arenas are not better, just fought a Joker who ran and did side b to try and win

    Mike 223
    Mike 223
    I don't understand the "no fighting" arenas. It's a fighting game, I don't care if you're grinding for gold (which I find pretty useless) I wanna fight.
    It's not the "no fighting" arenas as a concept that bother me; I don't get it either, but they're apparently really popular, so I won't rain on their parade. All I ask is that they're clearly labeled so people who want to fight can avoid them.
    Mike 223
    Mike 223
    Yeah, I've been lucky enough so far to where I haven't run into one.
    The brutal cycle of my Elite experience:

    1. Fight tons of spammers

    2. Get ticked off, and begin playing worse

    3. Match into a skillful player, but be too tilted to play properly

    4. Calm down over the course of the match

    5. Match into spammers

    This is why Elite sucks.
    So I did an elite battle today.

    It was a Pac-Man.

    Remembered real quick why I stopped playing Smash Bros.
    Ngl Pac-Man is kinda stupid. Great zoning and trapping tools with decent mobility and dummy frame data. Really hard to fight, especially online.
    Mike 223
    Mike 223
    Yup, especially with how players play online, combined with the fact Steve is bad at approach, online feels like hell
    Lol, the most recent post for online right now is mine from almost a month ago, proof most people don't care about online.

    I've stopped playing for now thanks to online.

    We know why.
    Every single player in my Elite session just now chose battlefield forms so I couldn't deal with their projectile spam effectively.

    Today when playing battle arenas, like 5 different arena hosts shut down the arena just because I was playing Steve.

    Lots of people probably have the one character in the roster they just can't deal with effectively.

    Mine is Sephiroth, he has massive range, a way to deal with Steve Dair (my go-to landing option), a counter (which I already have trouble punishing, but now this one is even harder to punish), really good at edgeguarding (which my character has one of the most edgeguardable recoveries in the game, ironic, really), and projectiles.
    Welp, 99% of Elite players have now lost the ability to beat me because I have learned the staircase set-up, allowing me to block projectiles without hoping my shield comes up in the lag.

    I've been fighting a lot of people on battle arenas using strats you would see in Elite.

    Like just now I fought a K. Rool who camped under the platform on the KH stage and spammed his projectiles so I couldn't punish him.

    I don't know why people do this in battle arenas.

    In Elite it is because they are desperate to keep their GSP up, but in battle arenas,

    "Cool! You won! Nobody cares!"
    Mike 223
    Mike 223
    Even in Elite, GSP isn't much of a reward,

    "Cool! A pointless number went up! Anyone good at the game doesn't care!"

    It's a super inaccurate representation of "skill"

    like I've said before, my spammy Pythra got more GSP than my Steve, a character I actually put effort into
    At first, when people said DLC is op, I didn't agree with them because I mained Steve, sure his minecart and diamonds are really powerful (seriously I STILL get caught off-guard when I do like 90% off of 1 Steve combo) but he still has to manage resources and won't get anywhere if he can't do that, but then I tried Terry and Pyra, instantly was good a Terry and got more GSP with Pyra than Steve, (also proof GSP doesn't matter at all and is the most inaccurate representation of your skill in existence)
    IMO Steve takes the longest time to learn but beyond learning some tech and your combo tree’s the game becomes significantly easier due to Steves superior tools. The hardest part of him is the resources 100%, staying in disadvantage with no iron is hellish as your best moves are just… gone. Terry is one of the easiest to learn, but he struggles a lot when fighting better people because his tools are worse but more intuitive. Pyra is also like Terry, but easier to learn but when you hit a wall it hits hard because you are used to beating most people, even if you have better tools than most other characters.
    Mike 223
    Mike 223
    Yeah, those Pyras are people I have trouble beating as their sword is massive, and without iron, I can't really get a hit on them, recently learned the staircase block setup, letting me mine more so now I can actually beat characters with way more range than Steve because I have iron almost 24/7. Haven't run into one since learning it, but I know I'm gonna be able to beat them if I actually have iron to get to them.
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