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What is your most hated criticism against your most wanted character?

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Don't know, properly because of how many 3rd party reps we got?
:ultsonic: :ultsnake: :ultryu::ultcloud::ultbayonetta::ultsimon::ultrichter::ultken::ultjoker::ulthero::ultbanjokazooie::ult_terry::ultsteve:
(I remember that 4 of Fighters Pass were third party reps, didn't help that the 5th came from Fire Emblem which is hated by Smash fans due to how many reps the franchise got so quickly.)
Edit: double post, delete pls.
That's why Byleth was unironically a breath of fresh air. You can't believe how many times people have said that FP1 was going to be third-party only, so first party characters you should just straight up stop supporting. Luckily, FP2 changed that around.

First-party characters are just as important as third-party characters are. The "gaming hall of fame" approach doesn't work out when almost all of the roster are Nintendo characters.
 
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Starlight Liger

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I mean, if it means we get a good and consistent style for 3D Sonic, and maybe some half-decent writers for the story, then I'm all for it.
Sega doesn't have to sell to Nintendo for that to happen, they can just change the creative team at Sonic Team. Sonic is Sega's mascot not Nintendo's.
 

Champion of Hyrule

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Captain N isn't allowed because he's not a videogame character.

He's a character that was sucked into videogames, hangs out with video game characters, fights videogame villians using videogame equipment in a videogame world and is directly owned by Nintendo.

A 1st party character who's entire existence revolves around videogames isn't videogame enough for you?
I think if someone was created specifically for video games, that should qualify them for Smash. Captain N was absolutely created specifically to promote video games. If R.O.B. can get in, so can he
 

Mamboo07

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That's why Byleth was unironically a breath of fresh air. You can't believe how many times people have said that FP1 was going to be third-party only, so first party characters you should just straight up stop supporting. Luckily, FP2 changed that around.

First-party characters are just as important as third-party characters are. The "gaming hall of fame" approach doesn't work out when almost all of the roster are Nintendo characters.
Agree.
 

Megadoomer

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It's this one that's always the problem. People are actively against first-party characters these days.. why?
An arguably poor track record? The list of first party DLC newcomers in Smash (:4corrin::ultpiranha::ultbyleth::ultminmin) might not fill people with confidence. We got some great first party picks in the base games, but first party DLC characters seem to be used, at least in part, for blatant promotional reasons.
 
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Perkilator

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It's this one that's always the problem. People are actively against first-party characters these days.. why?
As Megadoomer Megadoomer puts it, probably because 1st party DLC in Smash...hasn't had the best track record. Only :4mewtwo::4feroy::4lucas::ultminmin brought in consistently positive reception (most of which were just veterans that people wouldn't shut up about).
 
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Swamp Sensei

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As Megadoomer Megadoomer puts it, probably because 1st party DLC in Smash...hasn't had the best track record. Only :4mewtwo::4feroy::4lucas: brought in consistently positive reception (and those were just veterans that people wouldn't shut up about).
I don't think its fair to say Min Min had a negative reception.

There were a few people complaining but its like saying Steve had a negative reception because there was some complaining.

Min Min was received pretty positively.
 

Guynamednelson

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An arguably poor track record? The list of first party DLC newcomers in Smash (:4corrin::ultpiranha::ultbyleth::ultminmin) might not fill people with confidence. We got some great first party picks in the base games, but first party DLC characters seem to be used, at least in part, for blatant promotional reasons.
At the same time, ARMS was thought to be screwed because it wouldn't be promoting a game from 2019-2020, showing that being "realistic" can lead to a rather narrow mind and not even getting half of all revealed characters in FP1+2 correct.
 

Velvet Rebirth

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Who the heck is this even referring to?
Not sure exactly, but if I were to hazard a guess it'd be the Carrion monster, seeing as it's their profile at the moment.
Actually I was referring to Whispy Woods. I've been wanting him since shortly after Smash 4 finished up.

Biomass I think would be a fun character if they did it's grabbing right but I've never been vocal about it before now, and it'd probably be a better fit in the new Fraymakers, fingers crossed it gets in!
 
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lady_sky skipper

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Actually I was referring to Whispy Woods. I've been wanting him since shortly after Smash 4 finished up.

Biomass I think would be a fun character if they did it's grabbing right but I've never been vocal about it before now, and it'd probably be a better fit in the new Fraymakers, fingers crossed it gets in!
You want Whispy Woods as a fighter? Awesome, my sister thought he'd be pretty cool. She even imagine his reveal trailer showing him doing his usual attacks and then surprising everyone by pulling up his roots and moving.
 

Velvet Rebirth

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You want Whispy Woods as a fighter? Awesome, my sister thought he'd be pretty cool. She even imagine his reveal trailer showing him doing his usual attacks and then surprising everyone by pulling up his roots and moving.
That sounds great! I always imagined the beginning of his trailer would start with Villager trying to cut him down
 

Champion of Hyrule

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“Arle shouldn't get in because [Sonic character] is a more iconic Sega character”

Okay yeah Sonic has more iconic characters, but saying any Sega character can’t get in because more Sonic characters should be first... That doesn’t make sense. Have you forgotten about :ultbayonetta: :ultjoker:?

And plus, this argument seems to not really understand that the fighter’s pass clearly prioritizes new series or parts of a series not already represented in Smash. I love the Sonic series and think it would be amazing to get new Sonic characters, stages and spirits, but there isn’t really any parts of the Sonic series that are worth representing, and remain unrepresented. Don’t forget, Sonic isn’t the only Sega series, and lots of other Sega series have had a huge influence on the video games industry

I’ve also seen this argument used against Sakura Shinguji, and the same counterargument applies here
 
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SharkLord

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“Arle shouldn't get in because [Sonic character] is a more iconic Sega character”

Okay yeah Sonic has more iconic characters, but saying any Sega character can’t get in because more Sonic characters should be first... That doesn’t make sense. Have you forgotten about :ultbayonetta: :ultjoker:?

And plus, this argument seems to not really understand that the fighter’s pass clearly prioritizes new series or parts of a series not already represented in Smash. I love the Sonic series and think it would be amazing to get new Sonic characters, stages and spirits, but there isn’t really any parts of the Sonic series that are worth representing, and remain unrepresented. Don’t forget, Sonic isn’t the only Sega series, and lots of other Sega series have had a huge influence on the video games industry

I’ve also seen this argument used against Sakura Shinguji, and the same counterargument applies here
If they can punt Mario off the edge of Final Destination, they're iconic enough. At least, that's the mentality I'm going with.
 

Perkilator

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It makes sad that people are quick to dismiss Rex as a possibility because of his Mii Costume even though he was only too late for the base game, but then in the same breath think "DLC wasn't planned when this character got that role" is perfectly fine for Assist Trophies.
 

Guynamednelson

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It makes sad that people are quick to dismiss Rex as a possibility because of his Mii Costume even though he was only too late for the base game, but then in the same breath think "DLC wasn't planned when this character got that role" is perfectly fine for Assist Trophies.
I think it's fine for both.
 

Wyvy - Phoenix Mode

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It makes sad that people are quick to dismiss Rex as a possibility because of his Mii Costume even though he was only too late for the base game, but then in the same breath think "DLC wasn't planned when this character got that role" is perfectly fine for Assist Trophies.
This. It's purely hypocritcal.

The Mii costumes were definitely not planned for playable at that point, and it makes sense Rex's MIi wasn't planned for Pass 1 either. That's like, at most, it. The costumes from Pass 1 after Rex might be questionable, but only due to when they were figured out. And we also have to look into when they were licensed to get an idea of how likely they are. There's also a factor of when some costumes came in, I.E. is Ubisoft effectively out due to the costumes with Byleth, or do more have a chance to come with someone like Rayman?

It's very context-heavy otherwise. Rex was planned as a MIi costume before Pass 2 was decided upon, from what we can tell, so he should still be possible as DLC. Same with any base game costumes or AT's, really. They're all possible. Of course, many will be plausible based upon various situations.
 

Mamboo07

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"First parties aren't hype" is starting to get to me.
Same, I get depressed when talking about Nintendo reps not getting much hype as well being boring as DLC.
(An entire chunk of DLC fighters are 3rd parties, for first party reps... two are from Fire Emblem, one's from a game with springy arms and a Mario enemy.)
 

Commander_Alph

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Probably because niche/unlikely character bad.
I mean that didn't stop them putting Takamaru higher in a pedestal despite his series already long been dead, no legacy whatsoever than that mini game in Nintendo Land and yet I always hear the word "HE'S HIGHER BECAUSE HE IS ALREADY IN SMASH". Talk about double standards



I
 
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jamesster445

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"First parties aren't hype" is starting to get to me.
I don't agree with the sentiment but I can understand where they come from. Interesting prospects of 1st party characters have repeatedly been deconfirmed (Astral Chain, Ring Fit, Xenoblade). Then considering who the 1st party DLCs ended up being ( :ultcorrin: :ultpiranha::ultbylethf::ultminmin) They've each been fairly contentious entries to the roster for one reason or the other.
 

SharkLord

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Man, I feel so bad to be a fan of Sakura Shinguji. Literally everyone in RTC seems to have a hate boner for her.
Honestly that's a major reason I stopped frequenting the thread. People can just get really %$#@ing rude over there. The only reason I keep coming back is to get ideas for my writeups, and even then those are few and far in between. Constant rudeness, harsh generalizations, and a rating that's honestly pretty arbitrary in the end. The chance score is pretty heavily influenced by the want score anyways; You can tell if someone does or doesn't want a character.

If it helps, at least some people are sticking up for her. I remember taking a peek when Amiya got rated. Poor girl was absolutely butchered up in there. Kind of a shame, considering how BlueEyedGrimmbat BlueEyedGrimmbat was pushing for her on RTC for a while only for a near-universal negative reaction. I get that the character's unlikely, but seeing an entire thread saying that someone you want is bad and doesn't deserve to be in just sounds really upsetting.
 

Guynamednelson

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I don't agree with the sentiment but I can understand where they come from. Interesting prospects of 1st party characters have repeatedly been deconfirmed (Astral Chain, Ring Fit, Xenoblade). Then considering who the 1st party DLCs ended up being ( :ultcorrin: :ultpiranha::ultbylethf::ultminmin) They've each been fairly contentious entries to the roster for one reason or the other.
Eh, Min Min isn't that controversial, some people are just desperate to act like she's on par with Byleth. I would actually see Ring Fit Trainer being more controversial for being a "casual" game.
 

Swamp Sensei

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Douchebag is probably the worse one, I mean the guy is merciless when it comes to rating japanese-centric character / character that gives off weird WEEB energy.
This thread isn't for singling out specific users.

That's just a **** move, brah.
 

Wyvy - Phoenix Mode

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Eh, Min Min isn't that controversial, some people are just desperate to act like she's on par with Byleth. I would actually see Ring Fit Trainer being more controversial for being a "casual" game.
Min Min got some controversy, but it was mostly because she's not the mascot and many don't really agree with the whole "anyone can be a protagonist" bit when it's clear Spring Man is the main character promotionally. She's mixed in a different way, but she's not a Fire Emblem character. There's a tiny bit of shill arguments, but it's only partially right. They did actually did use the concept of an ARMS character to help push ARMS sales a bit more, but that's... it. There's no new game to promote. Just an older game they want to keep relevant.

So not really close to Byleth's situation. Or Corrin's. Or by all means, Roy even. Nor on par with either Byleth or Corrin, honestly. It's hard to be, since the character was honestly pretty popular beforehand and quite a bit wanted too. Not that Byleth isn't, but way less of a "Fire Emblem bad" kind of situation. The closest in that regard is "characters from very new games" at best.
 

Perkilator

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Get a load of this dogwhistle:
Nah, it's just that I simply can't see them getting into Smash. I just fail to see how these characters can get in. Sora because of Sephiroth and the fsct that Kingdom Hearts is a Disney IP. Capcom I think gets screwed over by getting Ken in Base Game and Hayabusa just stealing a spot due to how I fail to see a Pass where we get a Koei Tecmo Character and a Capcom Character. And Crash simply got outprioritzed by Steve and potentially Hayabusa as well if Hayabusa gets in (which I think is borderline inevitable for many reasons). Don't predict your most wanted kids, otherwise you will simply be disappointed with the end result.
 

MasterWarlord

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Adding to the First party hype discussion, Cranky Kong is slept on.
It seems like all of the DK character speculation was set in stone before Tropical Freeze came out and showed Cranky as playable, which made him make a lot more sense as a Smash character. Before that point, the fanbase had already decided K. Rool and Dixie Kong were the only two viable characters to pick from, and before Tropical Freeze, to a degree it made sense. Afterwards, people were just stuck continuing to campaign for the characters with already active fanbases, it was impossible for Cranky Kong to start up his fan momentum so much later, when people were campaigning for K. Rool and Dixie as far back as Brawl. Now that K. Rool made it, Dixie is seen without rival, and advocating for Cranky is seen as some kind of malicious crime against Dixie Kong.
 

SharkLord

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"But sakurai said "Who else but Lloyd" so he is far more likely then Yuri"

we all know what happend the last time someone took sakurais words in an interview to heart
To be fair, the Geno statement was a bit less definitive. For Geno, Sakurai just said "I like this guy, his hand is a gun and I thought he could fit pretty well." For Lloyd, he was the sole representation of his series, and Sakurai was prioritizing him above multiple other candidates, whereas Geno is just himself and that's it.
 

TCT~Phantom

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Honestly that's a major reason I stopped frequenting the thread. People can just get really %$#@ing rude over there. The only reason I keep coming back is to get ideas for my writeups, and even then those are few and far in between. Constant rudeness, harsh generalizations, and a rating that's honestly pretty arbitrary in the end. The chance score is pretty heavily influenced by the want score anyways; You can tell if someone does or doesn't want a character.

If it helps, at least some people are sticking up for her. I remember taking a peek when Amiya got rated. Poor girl was absolutely butchered up in there. Kind of a shame, considering how BlueEyedGrimmbat BlueEyedGrimmbat was pushing for her on RTC for a while only for a near-universal negative reaction. I get that the character's unlikely, but seeing an entire thread saying that someone you want is bad and doesn't deserve to be in just sounds really upsetting.
I agree that sometimes people can get testy, but at the end of the day it is a debate thread in the end. Just as someone has the freedom to call out an argument, they have the same right to have a counter argument and defend their score. So long as a score is not an outright ****post and follows the rules of how the thread works, it ends up in the final tally. Trust me, I would love to have the numbers fudged to have Crash as the top seed or to tank characters I do not care about, but the math is the math. If a fanbase also comes forward with good arguments, usually their scores overpreform. Adol is my favorite example of this, since his fans not only came out in full force, but presented a clear and concise argument that swayed a bunch of people. Will there be cynics who do not view a character as likely? Of course there are. But a strong argument can do a lot in terms of chance.

As for want, its entirely subjective. Yeah, it can sting a little that someone thinks the idea you (using the plural you) care is dumb, but the thing is want is entirely subjective. Just because someone does not want or find a character interesting it is not the end of the world. Whenever I see people complain about this stuff, I like to point out that even if they do not want to discuss a character's chances, it is easy to just write two sentences as a bare minimum to boost a character's want. Part of why I try as often as I can to have the RTC thread linked is specifically so people have a chance to boost up who they want. I often see posts that are a bit miffed about how a character's reception is in RTC. If that person instead got others to come and post their want and share their stories, it can help. For example, on Spyro's first day in RTC I did a huge writeup for want on how much the og games meant to me, which did have an effect. It does sting seeing someone not care for a character you want, and I get that. But if someone gives a 0% want, you could always post or try to get other supporters to post to add a 100% want instead.

The final thing I will say is that at the end of the day, it is just a game. RTC as a whole does not matter at the end of the day. Would I say that its predictions have been ok for the most part this time? To an extent, yes in terms of what we got. To that same extent, no for what we did not. But it is just a game where you naturally can argue and debate a character's merits or points against them. Obviously, this is not for everyone. But I feel that people actually working together to argue for their characters is a lot more productive overall than getting annoyed at RTC.

Also for the record, Sakura actually is doing better this time. One thing I have noticed is if a fanbase does keep making an argument for their character, they tend to do better over time. A great example is Reimu, who has overall had a steady rise in terms of her scores both for chance and want.
 

SharkLord

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I agree that sometimes people can get testy, but at the end of the day it is a debate thread in the end. Just as someone has the freedom to call out an argument, they have the same right to have a counter argument and defend their score. So long as a score is not an outright ****post and follows the rules of how the thread works, it ends up in the final tally. Trust me, I would love to have the numbers fudged to have Crash as the top seed or to tank characters I do not care about, but the math is the math. If a fanbase also comes forward with good arguments, usually their scores overpreform. Adol is my favorite example of this, since his fans not only came out in full force, but presented a clear and concise argument that swayed a bunch of people. Will there be cynics who do not view a character as likely? Of course there are. But a strong argument can do a lot in terms of chance.

As for want, its entirely subjective. Yeah, it can sting a little that someone thinks the idea you (using the plural you) care is dumb, but the thing is want is entirely subjective. Just because someone does not want or find a character interesting it is not the end of the world. Whenever I see people complain about this stuff, I like to point out that even if they do not want to discuss a character's chances, it is easy to just write two sentences as a bare minimum to boost a character's want. Part of why I try as often as I can to have the RTC thread linked is specifically so people have a chance to boost up who they want. I often see posts that are a bit miffed about how a character's reception is in RTC. If that person instead got others to come and post their want and share their stories, it can help. For example, on Spyro's first day in RTC I did a huge writeup for want on how much the og games meant to me, which did have an effect. It does sting seeing someone not care for a character you want, and I get that. But if someone gives a 0% want, you could always post or try to get other supporters to post to add a 100% want instead.

The final thing I will say is that at the end of the day, it is just a game. RTC as a whole does not matter at the end of the day. Would I say that its predictions have been ok for the most part this time? To an extent, yes in terms of what we got. To that same extent, no for what we did not. But it is just a game where you naturally can argue and debate a character's merits or points against them. Obviously, this is not for everyone. But I feel that people actually working together to argue for their characters is a lot more productive overall than getting annoyed at RTC.

Also for the record, Sakura actually is doing better this time. One thing I have noticed is if a fanbase does keep making an argument for their character, they tend to do better over time. A great example is Reimu, who has overall had a steady rise in terms of her scores both for chance and want.
I know, I know, it's more productive to show your support and not take the game too seriously. It's just... The game isn't that fun anymore. When I first joined the site I saw RTC placed up at the top of the screen with other major forums and assumed it was something everyone did. After a while, though, I began suffering from debate burnout. I'm not a really confrontational person and I tend to be put off by aggression or negativity, so if the other players are being rude I just don't want to join them. Either way I just prefer to be optimistic about whoever I want and don't really care to put a rating on them anymore.
I'll still check in occasionally to decide who I should write about, but the way RTC is designed makes it feel too... Serious, I suppose. Other threads I go to can qualify as a debate thread, but they feel a bit more jokey, less serious. If anyone likes RTC, power to them, but it's just not that fun anymore, honestly.
 

JoeZegers

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I don’t know about most wanted character, but my least favorite criticism about my main (:ultlucario:Lucario) is when people call him a low-tier without realizing that he has a lot of potential.

This is what I mean: I understand that Lucario’s aura can cause some problems when fighting other fighters like Bowser or even Incineroar, but alone it’s one of the many things so many people, including me, love about Lucario. Not only that, but it’s actually a good thing since he actually gets stronger when he gets hurt. I don’t know what makes you think that’s a bad thing, but Lucario’s just perfectly fine the way he is.
Then again, not all smash mains are perfect. Just look at Shulk.
 
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Janx_uwu

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People saying Shadow's just an edgelord.
This is more so a generalization of Shadow made in both Smash speculation and the Sonic fanbase. For whatever reason people seem to ignore much of his story from Adventure 2, Heroes, and 06.
But I guess I can't really blame them in the end-after all, Sega seems to think the same way as they do, and it's how he's presented, in both marketing and the games themselves as well as the animated shorts and whatnot.
Also, people saying "X character is cringe" really grinds my gears. Imagine Sakurai saying "I want to put Jonesy in Smash, but nah, that's too cringe." Guarantee the same criticism would've been used against Steve five or six years ago.
 

Wyvy - Phoenix Mode

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People saying Shadow's just an edgelord.
This is more so a generalization of Shadow made in both Smash speculation and the Sonic fanbase. For whatever reason people seem to ignore much of his story from Adventure 2, Heroes, and 06.
But I guess I can't really blame them in the end-after all, Sega seems to think the same way as they do, and it's how he's presented, in both marketing and the games themselves as well as the animated shorts and whatnot.
Also, people saying "X character is cringe" really grinds my gears. Imagine Sakurai saying "I want to put Jonesy in Smash, but nah, that's too cringe." Guarantee the same criticism would've been used against Steve five or six years ago.
People seem to not get that a character can be edgy(which Shadow is designed around the concept) while not being an edgelord. Only his own game did he go overboard, and that's more due to the swearing than anything else. It's the only thing that never fit his character.

Though Sonic X did not help, but way overdoing him, and Sonic Boom is an interesting take(and a different universe) that went even worse than X or Shadow's game ever did. My lord, they took it too far. ._.

At least everybody else in Sonic Boom is much much better. Knuckles is stupid, but in a funny way, and it doesn't overplay his gullibility while refusing to at least give him a reason for why he keeps believing Eggman(Sonic X fixes that mistake, which is nice). Cause he's not actually gullible in itself. He's also kind of a crouching moron, hidden badass in some ways(and a true feminist, actually saying intelligent things from time to time too).
 
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