What is your most hated criticism against your most wanted character?

[Perkilator]

Too many FE characters, anime swordsman, only horny people want them, etc.
In short, my Fire Emblem obsession is not popular in speculation.

I know the feeling.

 

[Shinuto]

Shantae: "Only wanted due to waifu/fapbait."

 

[Mamboo07]

Bandana Dee: "Hat Goomba"

Euden: "From a mobile game"

Phoenix Wright: "He was already in UMvC3"

Spring Man: "Too generic/boring. We'd rather have Min Min/Twintelle/[Insert ARMS character]" & "No! Then Waluigi would have a chance!"

I'd also have one for Shantae, but "Too Obscure" has some legitimate backing behind it.

The hat Goomba one makes me angry sometimes.

 

[MonkeyDLenny]

"Disney would NEVER allow it! They're too strict! They would NEVER cooperate with Nintendo!"

Nevermind putting Bowser in Wreck-it Ralph, Disney letting Fortnite have Marvel characters in a game where DC characters also features, Disney having Mickey-branded Switches in Japan, Disney's history with Nintendo stretching as far back as Game & Watch, Epic Mickey originally being a flagship title for the Wii, Kingdom Hearts having a solid history with Nintendo dating as far back to the series inception, and was only until recently exclusive to Sony and Nintendo consoles...

"It would mean MICKEY MOUSE IN SMASH! Sakurai said NO CARTOON CHARACTERS!"

Kingdom Hearts has plenty of original content to draw from that isn't Disney, and if something like the mickey symbol on the Keyblade is that big of a ball buster they could give him Oathkeeper or Oblivion or just make a Smash-themed Keyblade since it's whole gimmick is that it shapeshifts to represent the worlds Sora travels to

"You CAN'T have Kingdom Hearts without Disney characters! It would misrepresent the series and water Sora down!"

Yeah, it's not like it took say eight tries for Fire Emblem to properly represent the weapon triangle, the fact that Ganondorf has so much more to him yet he's remained a watered down clone of Captain Falcon for years, the fact that Ness and Lucas play as more of a hodgepodge of different Mother characters rather than just themselves, the fact that Dark Samus' assist trophy was more true to the characer than her actual echo fighter... But go off I guess

"DISNEY WOULD BUY NINTENDO! DISNEY IS EVIL! KEEP THEM AWAY FROM SMASH!"

That's not even a rebuttal at this point and no they wouldn't....

 

[Mamboo07]

Shantae: "Only wanted due to waifu/fapbait."

Same thing with Twintelle.

 

[MisterMike]

My biggest pet peeves when it comes to character criticism:

-= "[X Character] isn't relevant and doesn't deserve to be in Smash." =-
I hate it when people try and use this as an argument. Not only is it something that's largely irrelevant given the numerous one-shot characters we already have like Ice Climbers and Duck Hunt, but nobody every qualifys it when they say it. They'll say **** like "King K. Rool can't/won't get in Smash because he isn't relevant.". Okay, relevant to what though?

To the NFL? Sure, he's as significant to that as knitting is to armed combat.
To gaming as a whole? Well I guess, but then again not many characters are as relevant as Mario or Pikachu.
To Smash? Well, given how many people wanted to see him get in yeah, he's pretty ****ing relevant.

From what I can tell, when people say that [X Character] isn't relevant enough to get into Smash, what they mean to say is that [X Character] isn't relevant to them and thus they don't deserve to be in Smash.

-= [X Character] can't get into Smash because [Fan Rule] =-
Despite having many names and many different contexts, the same basic logic is the same: [X Character] can't get in because of [Fan Rule], with [Fan Rule] usually being that the character is already represented in the game in some form, whether that be as an Assist Trophy, a Mii Fighter Costume, or a Spirit. Because we have no instances of [Fan Rule] being broken, then it's unlikely that it will be broken in the future. And because it's unlikely to be broken, then that's as good as a guarentee that it won't be broken.

I reason I hate this argument so much is because of how often it's used to invalidate the chances of certain characters getting in, despite having no factual basis (that is to say, something like a quote from Sakurai confirming such rules like he did regarding the rule that non-video game characters are not allowed in Smash) and despite said arguments having a long and storied history of being utterly broken time and time again. Such examples include:

• During the Melee days, it was often claimed that third party characters cannot join Smash. This was broken the following game with Snake.
• During the Brawl days, it was often claimed that third party characters would be very few and far between. As of the end of Smash Ultimate's Fighter Pass Vol. 1, we're at a grand total of 14 third party characters.
• During the Smash 4 days, it was often claimed that Assist Trophy characters could not/would not be upgraded to playable status. This was broken with the inclusion of Little Mac.
• During the Smash 4 days, it was often claimed that if a character was already included as a Trophy, then that character could not be included as a fighter. This was broken with Mewtwo and Lucas, who both had trophies in Smash 4 prior to their inclusion as DLC.
• During the Smash 4 days, it was often claimed that in order for a third party character to make it into Smash, their game(s) would had to have been on Nintendo consoles in the past. This was broken with Cloud, whose debut game had not made any appearance on a Nintendo console at the time of his inclusion. Furthermore, Sakurai has gone on record stating that third party characters having to have made appearances on Nintendo consoles is not a prerequisite to making it in.
• During the Smash 4 days, as well as in the early days of Ultimate, it was often claimed that Ridley would never make it into Smash because he was too big. Ridley was revealed for Smash Ultimate during E3 2018.
• During the Smash Ultimate days, it was often claimed that third party franchises would/could only get one character per franchise. During the August 8th Direct Simon and Richter, both from the Castlevania franchise, made their joint debut. Following that, during the November 1st Direct, Ken from Street Fighter was revealed as an Echo Fighter for Ryu.
• During the Smash Ultimate days, it was often claimed that newcomers had to be either major protagonists or major antagonists to make it in. During the November 1st Direct, Piranha Plant, a common Mario enemy, was revealed as the first DLC fighter for Ultimate.

But despite this, despite these "rules" (or rather this train of though), being thoroughly debunked on a regular basis, it never occours to these people that these kinds of arguments are worthless and that they should stop making them. Instead, they just move their goalposts and continue on as though nothing ever happened. If I had to guess why they do this, it's because of what such argument allow them to do: It allows them to easily dismiss characters that in their mind threatens the chances of the characters they want. If they're able to dismiss other characters as unlikely or even outright impossible, then it makes their characters seem more likely.

 

[8-peacock-8]

Blank character isn’t interesting.

or

Trying to act like the lore would matter in a NON CANON crossover.

 

[Speed Weed]

everytime someone says i only want a character for x arbitrary reason, part of me dies

 

[Pokelego999]

everytime someone says i only want a character for x arbitrary reason, part of me dies

You should see people wanting Rillaboom. Everyone ticks off his popularity as "people just want a grass starter". Obviously it's some people's reason, but it's an overgeneralization of the support for it. There's plenty of different reasons why we want something, not just the arbitrary reason you mentioned.

 

[Hollywoodrok12]

Here's a relevant one:

Spring Man: "You only want him so Waluigi/other AT has a chance". Not true. I've wanted him since the day ARMS was revealed. I want him because he's the main character. ATs, Mii Outfits and Spirits coming back is just an added bonus (albeit a very compelling bonus).

Also I thought of one for Shantae: "You only want her because Horny". Couldn't the same be said about Bayo or Mai or Morrigan or literally any female character? Why do they get a free pass but Shantae, who just had an E10 game, doesn't? Also Shantae's spirit is completely uncensored.

 

[Mamboo07]

Here's a relevant one:

Spring Man: "You only want him so Waluigi/other AT has a chance". Not true. I've wanted him since the day ARMS was revealed. I want him because he's the main character. ATs, Mii Outfits and Spirits coming back is just an added bonus (albeit a very compelling bonus).

Also I thought of one for Shantae: "You only want her because Horny". Couldn't the same be said about Bayo or Mai or Morrigan or literally any female character? Why do they get a free pass but Shantae, who just had an E10 game, doesn't? Also Shantae's spirit is completely uncensored.

I pretty much keep seeing Spring Man breaking the Assist Trophies rule thing.

 

[Pokelego999]

Rillaboom: You only want him because he's a grass starter
Any Gen 8 Pokemon: You just want him because of receny

 

[Jomosensual]

Here's a relevant one:

Spring Man: "You only want him so Waluigi/other AT has a chance". Not true. I've wanted him since the day ARMS was revealed. I want him because he's the main character. ATs, Mii Outfits and Spirits coming back is just an added bonus (albeit a very compelling bonus).

Also I thought of one for Shantae: "You only want her because Horny". Couldn't the same be said about Bayo or Mai or Morrigan or literally any female character? Why do they get a free pass but Shantae, who just had an E10 game, doesn't? Also Shantae's spirit is completely uncensored.

Same on Springman. I wanted him in because I wanted another new series to get repped.

 

[SharkLord]

Any time someone says "b-but nobody wants this!!1" If nobody wanted them, then why do you have to argue that? Besides, how many polls did Terry or Joker top?

 

[Perkilator]

I'm starting to get sick of the hate for humanoid character shapes in Smash, not just for specific characters. I'm okay with more cartoony characters, but fully humanoid characters have as much right to be Smash characters as they do.

 

[Hollywoodrok12]

Speaking of Relevance... you already know who I'm talking about:

"He shares the name with a Manga character": What? I'm sorry. What? What does that have to do with ANYTHING!? That's like adding Morgana or any other Phantom Thief over Joker because of this guy:

Spoiler: Kinda big Image

Sounds REALLY petty if you ask me.

"Everyone's the protagonist": and he's the lead protagonist. It's like adding Andy or Joe as a Fatal Fury rep and dissing Terry in their reveal trailer because they're the protagonist along with Terry. People wouldn't let that slide if that were to happen, so why's it okay when it happens to him? Also, can you really say that about guys like Max Brass, Springtron or Dr. Coyle, who are boss fighters that are also made playable?

 

[jamesster445]

I'm starting to get sick of the hate for humanoid character shapes in Smash, not just for specific characters. I'm okay with more cartoony characters, but fully humanoid characters have as much right to be Smash characters as they do.

Agreed, I never once cared about whether or not a character was stylized or not, just whether or not I liked them. It's even more obnoxious when the cartoon characters are outnumbering the "realistic" ones by a fair amount.

Also those same people only support platforming mascots. I don't see them giving a shout out to Rhythymm Heaven a potential rhythm based fighter which features a variety of cartoony characters. Or the Wonderful 101 one of the few Character action game that's also a Saturday Morning cartoon. Advance Wars has a tone has widely been described as "playing with toy soldiers" gets no love from the cartoon crusaders.

 

[Troykv]

Too many FE characters, anime swordsman, only horny people want them, etc.
In short, my Fire Emblem obsession is not popular in speculation.

I can really feel this, when pretty much all my wanted characters are girls and my most wanted is Micaiah from Fire Emblem (at least she doesn't use swords xD).

 

[SharkLord]

Speaking of Relevance... you already know who I'm talking about:

"He shares the name with a Manga character": What? I'm sorry. What? What does that have to do with ANYTHING!? That's like adding Morgana or any other Phantom Thief over Joker because of this guy:

Spoiler: Kinda big Image

Sounds REALLY petty if you ask me.

"Everyone's the protagonist": and he's the lead protagonist. It's like adding Andy or Joe as a Fatal Fury rep and dissing Terry in their reveal trailer because they're the protagonist along with Terry. People wouldn't let that slide if that were to happen, so why's it okay when it happens to him? Also, can you really say that about guys like Max Brass, Springtron or Dr. Coyle, who are boss fighters that are also made playable?

It sounded more like a harmless joke than anything. Apparently, the Spring Man he was referring to comes from a manga that's popular in Japan, and he also lost to someone named Ramen Man. From what I can gather, there was an opportunity for a silly reference dangling right in front of his face, and he took it.

 

[Perkilator]

One thing I get pretty annoyed with is when people call a Gen VIII Pokemon a "le Shillmon". Yes, it would be promoting Gen VIII, but that's no excuse to demean people who legit want a Pokemon from the Gen.

 

[SharkLord]

One thing I get pretty annoyed with is when people call a Gen VIII Pokemon a "le Shillmon". Yes, it would be promoting Gen VIII, but that's no excuse to demean people who legit want a Pokemon from the Gen.

Is this about the RTC thing? The was more directed at people who use that as a reasoning for why we'd get a Pokemon without actually caring about that Pokemon. Want whatever Pokemon you want, but it gets kinda irritating when people keep pushing a character as likely over and over again without actually wanting it. That's generally going to bring the mood down.

 

[Perkilator]

Is this about the RTC thing? The was more directed at people who use that as a reasoning for why we'd get a Pokemon without actually caring about that Pokemon. Want whatever Pokemon you want, but it gets kinda irritating when people keep pushing a character as likely over and over again without actually wanting it. That's generally going to bring the mood down.

No, not at all. Just a general pet peeve of mine.

 

[TangyKeys]

Pretty much "Mii costumes decomfirm other characters!"

 

[SharkLord]

No, not at all. Just a general pet peeve of mine.

Ah, okay. It's just that me expressing my irritation is the only time I can think of where someone specifically said "le shillmon," so...

Pretty much "Mii costumes decomfirm other characters!"

That's an interesting subject, but most of the time I agree with you. being a part of the same series is one thing, but I don't really buy the "Spirits/Mii Costumes deconfirm characters from (X) company" mindset.

 

[SharkLord]

After Monster Hunter's sudden increase in attention, the one argument against them that really grinds my gears is "No avatars!" We already have a grand total of eight avatar characters already (), so why can't we have any more?
On the topic of odd points against them, "The monsters represent the series better!" One one hand, yes, the monsters are the mascots. Pokemon, which is in a similar situation, added the Pokemon first. On the other hand, it's called Monster Hunter. The Hunters are stars of the show in their own right, and besides, we already have a monster in Rathalos. Now that we have one half of the title, what harm would there be in adding the other half?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

After Monster Hunter's sudden increase in attention, the one argument against them that really grinds my gears is "No avatars!" We already have a grand total of eight avatar characters already (), so why can't we have any more?
On the topic of odd points against them, "The monsters represent the series better!" One one hand, yes, the monsters are the mascots. Pokemon, which is in a similar situation, added the Pokemon first. On the other hand, it's called Monster Hunter. The Hunters are stars of the show in their own right, and besides, we already have a monster in Rathalos. Now that we have one half of the title, what harm would there be in adding the other half?

So pretty much the new "Anime swordsmen" and "Cereal mascots"?

 

[SharkLord]

So pretty much the new "Anime swordsmen" and "Cereal mascots"?

Not necessarily. They're not saying "All (X) are the same," they're saying "All (X) won't get in!" despite (X)-In this case, avatar characters-Having joined the battle on multiple occasions ever since Brawl. I guess it would be like saying "No third-parties!" during the Smash 4 DLC speculation cycle, despite the series having four third-parties at the time, and all but one were in the game too.

 

[Perkilator]

After Monster Hunter's sudden increase in attention, the one argument against them that really grinds my gears is "No avatars!" We already have a grand total of eight avatar characters already (), so why can't we have any more?
On the topic of odd points against them, "The monsters represent the series better!" One one hand, yes, the monsters are the mascots. Pokemon, which is in a similar situation, added the Pokemon first. On the other hand, it's called Monster Hunter. The Hunters are stars of the show in their own right, and besides, we already have a monster in Rathalos. Now that we have one half of the title, what harm would there be in adding the other half?

Not to mention the nonsense about Byleth taking MH's spot by way of playstyle when the two's weapons are very different.

 

[SharkLord]

Not to mention the nonsense about Byleth taking MH's spot by way of playstyle when the two's weapons are very different.

yeah, that too. I'd have brought that up, but I think we covered that during their time in the spotlight yesterday.

 

[cashregister9]

I hate it when someone says "This character is too obscure" or "No one has ever heard of them" Sakurai himself said it was not an issue. Also just because you haven't heard of them it doesn't automatically mean others haven't either.

 

[StrangeKitten]

Yeah, it's super annoying seeing almost everyone decry a gen 8 Pokemon just because they don't want one. I mean I understand feeling frustrated that Pokemon already has a lot of characters, but I'm a big Pokemon fan, so I want a gen 8 mon. Rillaboom actually usurped Venusaur as my favorite grass starter, so naturally, I want him the most. I think he'd be the most interesting. I also don't think it's bad to want to fill the grass starter void, since grass often gets the least love. And now would be a good time to do it, since for all we know, then gen 10 grass starter that'll be recent when Smash 6 is coming out will be another Meganium or Serperior. Not that you couldn't add them and make them work, but it's not hard to see why they'd be more awkward than Rillaboom who already has something of a blueprint in DK. Of course, I also think Rillaboom would be significantly different than DK.

And then there's Geno, god does it feel like this character is overhated for no good reason. I love Mario almost as much as Pokemon, and he's the most interesting potential Mario rep in my view. I don't really care that he was only in one game, we have other characters on the roster you could say the same about.

 

[Guynamednelson]

but I'm a big Pokemon fan, so I want a gen 8 mon.

That's actually why I don't want one, and want something else to be its next rep.

I also don't think it's bad to want to fill the grass starter void, since grass often gets the least love.

You have to understand that the Pokemon Company doesn't care about such "injustices", and markets what they think is likeable enough rather than what "balances" their marketing.

 

[SharkLord]

And then there's Geno, god does it feel like this character is overhated for no good reason. I love Mario almost as much as Pokemon, and he's the most interesting potential Mario rep in my view. I don't really care that he was only in one game, we have other characters on the roster you could say the same about.

I think the thing about Geno, at least around here, is the fact that the Geno thread has essentially grown into a second general thread (Which, frankly, I don't think it's supposed to), just focused around Geno half the time. Said Geno thread's general opinion and attitude tends to be the complete opposite of the general thread. As such, the two tend to butt heads. Since Geno's what the Geno thread is based around (Obviously) while the general thread isn't based around a specific character, he ends up taking the brunt of the (Honestly really stupid) Geno thread vs general thread dynamic.
There's also some people taking issue with the attitude some people on his thread have towards his chances and their reasoning as to why, but that's another can of very large worms that I don't feel like opening right now.

 

[MintPepsi]

"He's too lazy"

 

[SharkLord]

"He's too lazy"

I mean, it at least explains the Mii Costume. It's obviously just a joke, though. People don't use that as an actual point against him, do they?

 

[MintPepsi]

I mean, it at least explains the Mii Costume. It's obviously just a joke, though. People don't use that as an actual point against him, do they?

They do, I've seen so many people say that he's "too lazy" to be a fighter therefore an UT fighter should be Frisk or Papyrus instead. While I understand wanting a different character to be the UT rep, the "too lazy" argument is just silly.

 

[SharkLord]

They do, I've seen so many people say that he's "too lazy" to be a fighter therefore an UT fighter should be Frisk or Papyrus instead. While I understand wanting a different character to be the UT rep, the "too lazy" argument is just silly.

Ah.

So they do unironically use that as an argument.

That makes absolutely no sense at all. He's certainly not too lazy to kick you seven ways to next Sunday in the Genocide route, is he?

(Does that need to be spoiled? I feel like everyone knows that by now, but I want to play it safe.)

 

[StrangeKitten]

They do, I've seen so many people say that he's "too lazy" to be a fighter therefore an UT fighter should be Frisk or Papyrus instead. While I understand wanting a different character to be the UT rep, the "too lazy" argument is just silly.

I honestly wonder how he would work as a proper fighter. His whole thing is that he only has 1HP, but can dodge all your attacks until he gets tired. That seems like it would either be really annoying to fight against, or it would make him a terrible character. They'd probably be better off just making him a lightweight with a strong combo game or something.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I honestly wonder how he would work as a proper fighter. His whole thing is that he only has 1HP, but can dodge all your attacks until he gets tired. That seems like it would either be really annoying to fight against, or it would make him a terrible character. They'd probably be better off just making him a lightweight with a strong combo game or something.

Is him having 1 HP actually canon? I don't know if Toby has commented on it, it could just be because you only fight him in Genocide and so he's just scripted to die in one hit. The monsters' HP is never given ingame, only ATK and DEF.

 

[StrangeKitten]

Is him having 1 HP actually canon? I don't know if Toby has commented on it, it could just be because you only fight him in Genocide and so he's just scripted to die in one hit. The monsters' HP is never given ingame, only ATK and DEF.

Oh... Good point. Probably isn't canon