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VaNz Stuff.. about Peach (Tactical Discussion)

Ryobeat

Ryobeat

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 22, 2012
Messages
800
Location
Fairview, NJ
So I just came back from a tournament. I played Stricnyn3's fox and falco the entire time, and i did relatively well. It was like 2stock high percent, 1 stocks, and i took a few games here and there. I only took like 5 games off his falco, but i took an alright amount off of his fox. ANY WAYS, i kept getting combo-ed REALLY hard by his falco, and everytime i got daired by his fox, i would eat 50% or more. Which brought me to a couple of questions.

1.Does Peach have any automatic things on Fox? Like, what can deal alot of percent once i have him in my midst? Also, when i get my opening, how do i keep control?

2. What way do I DI vs Falco's Shine/DownAir? I dont know what way to do for anything.

3. How do I avoid lasers? I dont get it. I dont do so horribly, but i cannot get through the double laser from the ledge.
 
Quaz

Quaz

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 20, 2004
Messages
3,424
Location
Salem, WI (West of Kenosha)
I DI shines horizontally, as for dair I guess it depends. if Im close to the edge of the stage Im gonna want to DI in and up so I don't get killed off the bottom by dair-dair.

dsmash in general is good for ranking up damage. when I grab spacies at low %s I go for uthrow dsmash, if they dont tech the dsmash you can go for a techchase dash attack and grab/aerial combo depending after that.
 
M

mexicanmax227

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 28, 2006
Messages
133
Location
Clinton, Mississippi
Hey guys my favorite match up :). MArth main here looking to refresh principals vs. peach. Easy grab manipulation if the peach isnt properly di'ing so thats an easy other grab/smash attack/combo, I know shes a floaty, and ...... yeah thats all i know, pretty good punishing ability if turnips are pulled so im always within range of punishment, any advice. thanks :)
 
KirbyKaze

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
17,679
Location
Spiral Mountain
Move around (mostly with dash dance) so she can't pull turnips or acquire her ambiguous float spacing (this applies pressure) but manipulate the distance between you two so she can't dash attack you (which denies her the little offense she has left in this position). This basically forces her to play footsie with Marth, but Marth ***** her at that.

If she floats backwards out of your sword range (i.e. you don't pick up on it ASAP) then just walk and let her do so. This will allow you to take control of the stage. Peach hates being cornered and Marth is good at killing her in the corner. D-tilt ***** her in the corner if she's not in the air.

Punishments should emphasize maintaining control of the stage and ensuring Marth has control. You don't want her to get her float back because that's the most difficult of her combo break options to deal with. Don't let her build height unless the damage justifies it (it often doesn't but sometimes it will) and keep her in a bad position forever. Otherwise you can basically freestyle. Look for dairs and f-smash tippers where applicable, but don't get overzealous with them.
 
KirbyKaze

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
17,679
Location
Spiral Mountain
It's a shame my matches with Abu weren't recorded. A lot of Peach Puff theories (though they're still in their infancy) were played around with in those matches. And they were really fun to play.
 
Prince_Abu

Prince_Abu

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 19, 2009
Messages
1,008
Location
Midwest
KirbyKaze said:
It's a shame my matches with Abu weren't recorded. A lot of Peach Puff theories (though they're still in their infancy) were played around with in those matches. And they were really fun to play.
Click to expand...
ya your peach is very good at the MU, u werent fallin for a lot of my tricks (nair up tilt for example)

we should definitely get them recorded next time
 
ShroudedOne

ShroudedOne

Smash Hero
Premium
Joined
Mar 14, 2011
Messages
5,493
This is partly because **** Puff

Partly because the video thread is old and no one does anything in there, so any videos that aren't in there are very hard to find

Puff players are pretty rare

And **** Puff :bee:

EDIT: irrelevant link, then, oops
 
KirbyKaze

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
17,679
Location
Spiral Mountain
Prince_Abu said:
ya your peach is very good at the MU, u werent fallin for a lot of my tricks (nair up tilt for example)

we should definitely get them recorded next time
Click to expand...
Yeah I think we probably should.

It's really not that bad of a MU IMHO but I also haven't done it vs Hbox so I can't say that with 100% confidence.

Shrouded that Puff is like 2 months old. Not a good representative of how I think the MU should be played. He mostly just wanted non-spacies practice if I'm remembering it correctly.
 
Rosedemon

Rosedemon

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 21, 2007
Messages
2,760
I've had a chance to get my matches vs norcal Puffs recorded but I almost always go Marth now. That match up is stupid easy against them, but the hardest Puff i've had to play recently was Hygua.

tl;dr **** puff.
 
knightpraetor

knightpraetor

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Messages
2,321
KirbyKaze said:
Move around (mostly with dash dance) so she can't pull turnips or acquire her ambiguous float spacing (this applies pressure) but manipulate the distance between you two so she can't dash attack you (which denies her the little offense she has left in this position). This basically forces her to play footsie with Marth, but Marth ***** her at that.

If she floats backwards out of your sword range (i.e. you don't pick up on it ASAP) then just walk and let her do so. This will allow you to take control of the stage. Peach hates being cornered and Marth is good at killing her in the corner. D-tilt ***** her in the corner if she's not in the air.

Punishments should emphasize maintaining control of the stage and ensuring Marth has control. You don't want her to get her float back because that's the most difficult of her combo break options to deal with. Don't let her build height unless the damage justifies it (it often doesn't but sometimes it will) and keep her in a bad position forever. Otherwise you can basically freestyle. Look for dairs and f-smash tippers where applicable, but don't get overzealous with them.
Click to expand...
I do a lot of the latter two, but I feel like I can't keep peach from acquiring an ambiguous float spacing. they float back slightly to make it ambiguous how far horizontally they are aiming their fair and then come down. Probably I should just ftilt more or run under and upair but it's scary moving into that fair range
 
KirbyKaze

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
17,679
Location
Spiral Mountain
If she jumps to float and you catch it fast you can rambo her with your fair (Fox style!). If you don't catch it, try to make her back off and stage more stage. She will run out. If she approaches with it, dodge it or beat it with something faster. Dodge it is easier, beating it with something faster is harder but often gives you a good return for your efforts.

Just my IMHO.
 
N.A.G.A.C.E

N.A.G.A.C.E

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Messages
2,919
Location
NY (LI)
I am intrigued to see hanky play, anyone know when big house vids will be up and how many matches he had recorded?

:phone:
 
Degree

Degree

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Messages
118
N.A.G.A.C.E said:
I am intrigued to see hanky play, anyone know when big house vids will be up and how many matches he had recorded?

:phone:
Click to expand...
Here is his match with Scar, I think he's got some other matches somewhere in that video too but that was the one that was getting tons of crowd reaction.
 
knightpraetor

knightpraetor

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Messages
2,321
this game is too hard. MY peach freaking sucks..it plays at like 1/5 of the level of my marth..no amount of advantageous matchup could make it worth playing in tournament. Do other people have issues where their secondaries suck even when they play them a long time? I feel like even if i put in 10-15 hrs of peach a week, it will take forever before it can compare to the several thousand hours of marth practice. Yeah, I can still win against most people that I would normally win against..but not nearly as solidly.

makes it more impressive that so many pros can play multiple characters at a level good enough to play with top pros....so many hours of practice necessary. I used to think that general skills would be enough to carry over. But while that seems to be true for fox, it definitely doesn't seem to carry over when i play IC or peach
 
ShroudedOne

ShroudedOne

Smash Hero
Premium
Joined
Mar 14, 2011
Messages
5,493
I actually have the issue of my secondaries doing BETTER than my main sometimes. Not that I think they're "better" per se, but my Falco/Marth always feel better than my Peach. Especially my Falco (though this could be from the fact that Falco is more momentum, so it feels like you're winning harder than you are).

Either way, I'd like to get to the level where my main would be clearly better.
 
Xyzz

Xyzz

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 7, 2011
Messages
2,170
Location
Gensokyan Embassy, Munich, Germany
My Falco / Sheik are horribly compared to my Peach.

I just always feel it's soooo free when playing Sheik vs CF (probably because it is), but my Peach is still slightly better even in that matchup (maybe if it was ntsc... :p). Add in that most people are amazingly dumb when it comes to playing Peach, and I have no reason to ever play anything but Peach in matches where I want to win :D
I guess if I ever sit down enough to get the tech skill down, my Falco would be about as good as my Peach though. Well, it's Falco though... after some basic point of general thought about the match ups, everything seems to be solvable by throwing more tech skill at the problem ... so that statement is not really fair (:
 
VA

VA

Smash Hero
Joined
May 18, 2006
Messages
5,003
Location
Brighton, UK
Zebrakatz and Azealia Banks were playing in Brighton last night, I missed it because I was running SF4 tournaments at a bar...wahhhh :(
 
V3ctorMan

V3ctorMan

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 25, 2006
Messages
2,261
Location
Sierra Vista AZ
Ok for real... Is it possible for my style of Yoshi to beat Peach...

/frustration...

<3 peach players... (like it's not in my nature to say a MU is impossible, but fuuuuuq, i'm sooo close to thinkking it)

but also not really :(
 
KirbyKaze

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
17,679
Location
Spiral Mountain
If you constantly hurl DJC attacks into a character who has attacks that beat yours and combo you to death then yeah you're probably making life needlessly difficult.

I never really understood the obsession with playing such a rigidly devoted way. Adaptability, versatility, and mastery of all a character's elements was (at one point) something to be proud of. I suppose standards are different for low tiers though. Sort of like how "Almost" counts for them a lot more and such.
 
ShroudedOne

ShroudedOne

Smash Hero
Premium
Joined
Mar 14, 2011
Messages
5,493
You're probably going to have to camp her super hard Vman. Sorry. :(

And even then, it's Peach/Yoshi. Not the kindest of matchups.
 
Xyzz

Xyzz

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 7, 2011
Messages
2,170
Location
Gensokyan Embassy, Munich, Germany
Especially if Peach knows how the matchup works, it's brutal... she has so much nonsense that she can use on Yoshi it's not even funny (or rather is... depends on whether you are on the receiving end or not lol).
 
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