VaNz Stuff.. about Peach (Tactical Discussion)

[john!]

i expect nothing less.

 

[MacD]

andre waaaaaay too brave

also i played some melee this weekend

me vs connor

sheik/falco vs falcon/marth

first game on flat zone, then counterpicks after that. good times

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

How does peach deal with shield grabs? Suppose peach does FC nair that hits mid shield or lower (but not lowest) and is fast falled. Ignoring mixups, how would I deal with grab? I'm used to fox, where if I nair at that height and fastfall I could get an antigrab move (shine) off, but I was getting grabbed virtually every time as peach. My main choice was to immediately dash away, but apparently its not safe. I don't like to jab vs a grab because they just CC it and grab again, though I suppose a quick double jab would be alright and isnt the worst thing I could do on a shield. I suppose another option would be to dsmash, which can also cause shield pokes, but most good characters can punish it on block.

Speaking of dsmash on shields, can sheik punish it? With fox I could WD OoS shine->usmash, but if I try WD OoS grab with sheik I've noticed that peach can dsmash again or spotdodge before the grab connects. Is there another option shiek can do to punish? (sh fair? sh dair?)

 

[VA]

How does peach deal with shield grabs? Suppose peach does FC nair that hits mid shield or lower (but not lowest) and is fast falled. Ignoring mixups, how would I deal with grab? I'm used to fox, where if I nair at that height and fastfall I could get an antigrab move (shine) off, but I was getting grabbed virtually every time as peach. My main choice was to immediately dash away, but apparently its not safe. I don't like to jab vs a grab because they just CC it and grab again, though I suppose a quick double jab would be alright and isnt the worst thing I could do on a shield. I suppose another option would be to dsmash, which can also cause shield pokes, but most good characters can punish it on block.

Speaking of dsmash on shields, can sheik punish it? With fox I could WD OoS shine->usmash, but if I try WD OoS grab with sheik I've noticed that peach can dsmash again or spotdodge before the grab connects. Is there another option shiek can do to punish? (sh fair? sh dair?)

How punishable is Dsmash on block? I tend to find that they aren't close enough to grab afterwards and try to WD oos to get back in. I usually slap immediately which clanks shine attempts and I can dsmash immediately after if it hits.

 

[Rosedemon]

You jab the grab, double jab the cc grab, downsmash the spot dodge, and grab anything else.

Its peach's version of rock-paper-scissors.


Edit: Most characters cant like super punish a downsmash on their shield. Some characters can get gank wavedash OoS downsmashes, but thats almost always the extent.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

If they're punishing dsmash oos you can try to just mix up by crossing up their shield before dsmashing (among other solutions, I remember seeing MacD double jab a sheik's wd oos to grab after a dsmash), the crossup usually increases the liklihood of a stab
I always forget to dsmash the spotdodge I try to dd grab it falcon style when i could be getting that tasty free 50%, haha

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Well I know for a fact fox can WD OoS shine before peach can shield, if hes relatively perfect. I don't really play falco in the MU but I assume he could do something similar or dair->combo. I'm confident WD OoS grab attempts won't work. Empirically i'm going to say dsmash on shield is -3 advantage after sheik/fox's WD OoS. Falcon can knee OoS right? I am thinking sheik can just take a free fair after blocking a dsmash, but I think everyone just tries WD OoS stuff because u can punish sheik's dsmash that way haha

Also, that RPS of peach is dutifully noted.

 

[PandaCobo]

I use daisy all the time. Maybe that's why I'm in a funk

 

[Rosedemon]

Shiek needs to wavedash OoS and downsmash. You can duck her fair, and sometimes if she does it to early, you're auto ducking cuz you're in your downsmash animation trololololololol

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I see that armada's #1 OoS punish is a fast FC nair while moving forward. Can peach punish another peach's dsmash with this?

 

[choknater]

daisy haterzzzz

 

[Quaz]

The characters I feel punish me the most are fox and falcon when I dsmash their shield. I usually pierce Marth, Jiggs, and Peach. I dont think Falco can do anything? (is wavedash shine possible with him too?)

There was one shiek I played once that punished my dsmash by simply letting go of shield and ftilting, but is that even supposed to work? lol I dont think so.

 

[ShroudedOne]

ICs can almost every time WD OoS punish our downsmash, if it doesn't stab. I "think" Sheiks can do this too, but it's a tight timing. Fox/Falco can WD OoS shine. I think Falcon punishes us pretty hard too. If we don't stab Puff, I think she can rest us (not sure on this, though).

Marth/Peach are really easy to shield stab with it.

 

[MacD]

sheik can punish it with wd grab/dsmash

fox can short hop dair you

marth can if it doesn't poke but it should

puff can get you with like fair or bair

i forgot what if anything falco can do

falcon can nair or whatever it is he does

IC's wavedash so far

tl;dr dsmash such a bad move on shield

 

[Bing]

Falco can laser and punish from the laser hitstun correct?

 

[ConnorTheKid]

andre waaaaaay too brave

also i played some melee this weekend

me vs connor

sheik/falco vs falcon/marth

first game on flat zone, then counterpicks after that. good times

when we play with those counterpicks, it's ALWAYS a good time.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Every time I see a match on Flatzone nowadays, Connor is always involved.

 

[baka4moé]

falco can wd oos to shine, its happened way too many times to me >_<

 

[Wake]

Has anyone else been shined by Falco in between the hits of Peach's dsmash while he was getting hit? I was very surprised the first time it happened.

 

[Cherished Doll]

McCain you are my peach hero <3 _ <3

 

[choknater]

maybe falco can wd shine, but if it were me, i would likely just shl out of shield

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Has anyone else been shined by Falco in between the hits of Peach's dsmash while he was getting hit? I was very surprised the first time it happened.

I've seen it done, where they CC the first hit and shine before the 2nd.

 

[thesage]

This is why I always combo into d-smash against Falco.

D-smash is actually very unsafe except in certain situations.

 

[VA]

I've seen it done, where they CC the first hit and shine before the 2nd.

such a pointless risk though unless the falco can execute it perfectly, if he/she misses their timing they they've cc'd into 2/3 hits and risk more.

also, thesage, what do you use to "combo" into dsmash?

I don't think it's terrible to dmsash on shield. Particularly not from FC Fair...

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I agree VA, thats why I never did CC shine on a dsmash haha. Done CC shield before tho.

I don't think comboing into dsmash is useful, its damage isn't that good unless they DI into a lot of hits, which nobody I play does. Only time i use it when comboing is to send them behind me off the stage, and even then i think there is usually a better option if I could combo like armada.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoQGiyZ5CYs&list=ULFoQGiyZ5CYs&feature=player_detailpage#t=597s
the most evil thing I have ever seen or done

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

That usmash was ****

Spoiler

(boobs)

 

[DoH]

I do that a lot on Brinstar, great vs docs/marios who try and fair or falcos/falcons/ganons who try and stomp you

 

[Bing]

wow... CC to shine on a d-smash sounds like a terrible idea and like it should never be done... but Its also good to know incase you ever do get d-smashed while cc you can atleast have a way "out"

 

[thesage]

Waveshining does not work on land that's sloped.

 

[VA]

wow... CC to shine on a d-smash sounds like a terrible idea and like it should never be done... but Its also good to know incase you ever do get d-smashed while cc you can atleast have a way "out"

Jump, block, roll, most things are better.

 

[Bing]

Im refering to if you get caught in the d-smash... obviously there are better options if you're not caught in it....

 

[KirbyKaze]

Eww, Brinstar.

 

[ShroudedOne]

This is why I always combo into d-smash against Falco.

D-smash is actually very unsafe except in certain situations.

This is what I always tell non-Peach mains when they say I need more downsmash. But they never listen. It's not some godlike, all-purpose move. It's just VERY good in the situations you can use it in, against spacies/Falcon (and decent vs everyone else).

KK's back! <3

 

[VA]

Im refering to if you get caught in the d-smash... obviously there are better options if you're not caught in it....

I meant if you're trying to act after CCing the first hit.

 

[thesage]

Oh yea comboing into d-smash. At low percents all her knock up attacks i.e. d-tilt up-throw dash attack can combo into d-smash. Also tech chasing into d-smash. Basically you want to hit them when they cannot be crouching at all otherwise they can "super" crouch cancel which allows them to shine you out of d-smash.

 

[Wake]

Brinstar is such a gross stage.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Oh yea comboing into d-smash. At low percents all her knock up attacks i.e. d-tilt up-throw dash attack can combo into d-smash. Also tech chasing into d-smash. Basically you want to hit them when they cannot be crouching at all otherwise they can "super" crouch cancel which allows them to shine you out of d-smash.

But you don't want to combo into dsmash, in most cases there are better things to do. If Armada pops an opponent up, he will look for either a FH uair or a FC nair/bair -> tech chase.

 

[thesage]

At low percents or if you're not technical enough or too lazy to do that ****. If Falco is about to hit the ground and you d-smash him, usually at least 3 hits connect and you have a possiblity to send him offstage and raep his recovery.

 

[Bing]

Then you should get more technical to **** like Armada instead of taking short cuts with endings that will not look anything like his