VaNz Stuff.. about Peach (Tactical Discussion)

[Fortress | Sveet]

If you're not technical enough: go practice. If you're too lazy: honestly i'm not really sure what to say to this except that this is a tournament fighting game and laziness is never an excuse.

 

[Rosedemon]

Wait what?

If I dtilt fox/falco at 10% I am most assuredly going to downsmash them (or grab into chainthrow on fd) because thats a lot more percent then a FCNair into anything.

Yes, Armada looks cute doing what he does, but Alan likes doing damages when he can.

 

[Bing]

Doing the smart thing and ensuring yourself high amounts of damage is one thing, that was mostly a comment towards the laziness part...(Also I'd grab over d-smash, but I dont main peach therefore have no valid opinion)

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Wait what?

If I dtilt fox/falco at 10% I am most assuredly going to downsmash them (or grab into chainthrow on fd) because thats a lot more percent then a FCNair into anything.

Yes, Armada looks cute doing what he does, but Alan likes doing damages when he can.

why would you dtilt at 10%? using dsmash as a first hit/spacing tool is good, and it does damage. But doing fc nair->tech chase or uthrow->platform tech chase has the better damage output.

 

[ShroudedOne]

At low percents on Falco/Fox/Falcon downsmashing out of a grab or hit at low percents is extremely good. There isn't anything else you can really do to them that will net you a higher reward than that if it hits. Armada doesn't even start doing his cute combos until their about 40-50 percent or so, which is usually when Peach combos are supposed to happen.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

uthrow to dsmash is good at 0% because theres no other option. Past that, CG is obviously better.

 

[thesage]

At low percents on Falco/Fox/Falcon downsmashing out of a grab or hit at low percents is extremely good. There isn't anything else you can really do to them that will net you a higher reward than that if it hits. Armada doesn't even start doing his cute combos until their about 40-50 percent or so, which is usually when Peach combos are supposed to happen.

This is what I meant. >_>;

That's cool if you somehow are able to do d-tilt to fc nair at like 0%. I'd rather focus on practicing other things that are more important to my overall game.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Since when did maximizing damage become something minor to improve? Armada doesn't even have to think very hard vs 99% of players simply because of his damage output is so good.

 

[Wake]

I agree with Sveet. I rarely dsmash after dtilt. I only dsmash after dtiliting if I feel like I'm going to fail really hard and want an extra hit.

 

[Bing]

I just feel like long term you could do so much more if you didnt just d-smash, because it a) Doesnt do a ton of damage b) Throws them away and as a Peach person you went them close to you because Peach cant really approach, but damn can she deal damage with her close range game.

 

[ShroudedOne]

We're talking about LOW percents here, people, on fast fallers, when you wouldn't be able to connect much else. She can't really combo fast fallers with things like reverse bair/dtilt/nair until the 40s. After that, downsmash becomes a progressively worse and worse option, yes. But not before.

Go into training, and try to hit a spacie with dtilt/nair/fair/bair at 0, 10, 20. You won't get more guaranteed damage (unless you pull off a techchase, but this isn't guaranteed, so nya). After that, perhaps you can get hits into grabs for CGs, or get dash attack popups into uairs or something, but not before.

At least, I'm talking about low percents. And just fast fallers. Floaties are trickier.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Peach is ridiculous at tech chasing, wtf. Lets be realistic tho, how is this "combo" starting? Nair is not the first hit of a combo at 0%.

 

[ShroudedOne]

At low percents, the objective isn't to start a combo. We're not Falco, who combos from 0%. Our opponents sort of need to have some percent on them, first. Against fast fallers, downsmash is pretty good because they will most likely take two hits, and will not go very far at all. Plus, they will be knocked down, so then we can go for techchasing (with a dash attack or something). Low percentage downsmashes put them in a very bad position, with good percent on them.

No, nair is never the first hit of a combo, it's uses to continue, or end one (in most cases, anyways). Which is why I said dtilt.

Against Sheik/Marth/Ganon/others, something into downsmash isn't optimal, which is where I agree. Remember that combos are character specific.

 

[Bing]

At low percents, the objective isn't to start a combo. We're not Falco, who combos from 0%. .

Not with that attitude!

But why are we even discussing this... D-tilt at 0% isnt even something that you should be going for... right?

 

[ShroudedOne]

Depends on the character. Generally, no (in my opinion, anyways).

 

[Bing]

And even if you do pop them up with a d-tilt, I'd say just grab, and if you can chain grab, I'd d-throw downsmash, D-throw jab regrab or throw them off the stage.

But Im stupid so lol

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

There are times when dsmash is the only option for follow up, in which case its not horrible. In most cases there are better options. Is anyone arguing that dsmash is a good punish?

 

[KirbyKaze]

Peach is ridiculous at tech chasing, wtf. Lets be realistic tho, how is this "combo" starting? Nair is not the first hit of a combo at 0%.

Not sure if serious on the "Peach is ridiculous at tech chasing" comment. She's okay, but her tech chasing capacity is limited by her running speed. There's a lot of stuff she can't do on reaction. Her saving grace is that she's stupid against tech stands because of down smash and she covers options in corner situations really hard but... every character can cover options when they're tech chasing in the corner.

At 0%, nair links into down smash easily enough if you swat someone with a decent fall speed out of the air with it.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

fc nair -> dash forward -> crouch. GG


wait... ITS KK!!!!!!!!


edit- watched armada video: dtilt knocks fox down at 0% ****!

 

[Rosedemon]

Just did some testing cuz this got dumb.

Dtilted fox at 10% then downsmashed. Brought him to like 48% and right in front of me ready for a jab reset into something else. Guaranteed damage with a very easy follow up.

Dtilted fox at 11% then FCNaired. Brought him to ~30% and slightly ahead of me ready for a possible dash attack/another aerial on a missed tech and follow up tech chase if they do tech. Following a tech away would've been impossible, but all other tech options could've been punished.

Now look, I dont lack for tech skill at all, but when I have the option to get guaranteed hard damage on some ***** that needs to die as soon as possible, im going for it. Especially when it sets them up for a better follow up.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Opponent DIs away from move --> opponent techs away from move --> Peach is slow.

._.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Hmm fair enough. Dsmash is pretty good at low percents

 

[ShroudedOne]

*facepalm*

At least we've all learned something.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Idk, my game theories are weird. Most of what I know about peach is from hours of studying armada and a few short smashing sessions practicing her. Right now, I want to stay fairly idealistic as I don't want to get sucked into the easy damage stuff I can get on my training partners because I know that stuff will not work when it comes time to face Kels

 

[Wake]

What about stuff from FC uair after dtilts? I've been experimenting with it lately.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

anything that can pop them up and then be followed up by a FH uair is pretty good

 

[Bing]

More people need to combo into parasol...

 

[Wake]

I've been experimenting with that too.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

Lol i always combo into parasol in friendlies, i never get anything out of it but it feels good.

I havent read the whole dsmash convo but i just want to say that imo non peach users over estimate the move while peach users underestimate the move. I believe peach players underestimate the move b/c we get kinda mad at all the haters who think that that one move is all it takes to use peach. At times guaranteed dmg is better then trying for a tough combo, also dsmash is a solid move for just getting people off the stage for a gimp (not that i need to be telling any of u guys this)

 

[Wake]

Good job getting 5th! Looks like we both got 5th a few days ago.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

Good job getting 5th! Looks like we both got 5th a few days ago.

Is this to me? If so thanks and good job as well. Vanz got 3rd at the same tourney so i was overshadowed by another peach lol but vanz was a cool guy and the tourney was real fun, plus some people who saw me play and saw were i placed came up to me and congratulated and complimented me which was cool. (This was suppose to be a short post lol)

 

[Wake]

Yeah that was to you. haha

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

what tourney did vanz get 3rd at???

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

Sudden death. Hax and jman spilt, and niko got 4th

 

[baka4moé]

nice job nagace! also who is the moon? did he really beat stric? never heard of him...

 

[KirbyKaze]

Stric can't beat floaties.

So he's probably a Marth player.

I noticed a lot of dair shield poking against Niko by Ben Grimm. Anyone else think this might be worth going for more often? Marth has a pretty craptastic shield and the down smash shield poke (while nice) often doesn't link to anything. Feels like you could use it to initiate the same way you use nairs (after turnips). Probably works better higher up than the nair does too (starting the nair high eats a lot of its frame advantage).

When is it better to go for dair > nair vs. dair > uair? I find the uair is kind of wonky about working but aside from that gripe, does anyone with a lot of experience with those combos have any general rules for when one is better than the other? Versus, say, Sheik and Marth.

 

[DoH]

I dair Marth's shield a lot because it blows

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

Man i know i could of done better vs niko. Not win but get 1 stocked. I feel marth is very beatable but things can get away from u quick when he takes a lead

Edit: and i dont mean that as a john or insult to niko b/c he is def better then me atm, i just feel i missed chances to make the matches closer.

Edit 2: thanks baka

 

[Izek]

hey guys. Just wondering if people can provide advice, tips, etc. On certain situations when it comes to peach. Now i don't play peach a lot but i know some things, but usually when it comes to recovering, or being at the ledge of a stage, it feels like peach is very limited when it comes to getting back on stage, regain control, etc, especially when her % is over 100. I noticed in apex 2012 Armada vs pp FD he repeatedly grabbed the ledge and PP was just moving back and forth. Is that really a good choice when it comes to being at the ledge as peach? Couldn't she also be hit, stopped from doing that stuff?. Here is an example of what im trying to get at. I know this is vid is quite old but i feel like its a good example. A lot of this is seen in this set. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQSMTKhdsDY#t=20m55s or maybe falco just shuts down so much . lol

 

[Niko45]

I wouldn't read into anything that goes on with my shield too much cause I think I'm abnormally horrible at shielding, if one can be. If you watch PP he consistently does not get poked by dsmash and stuff, so I'm pretty sure getting poked is my fault most of the time.