VaNz Stuff.. about Peach (Tactical Discussion)

[KirbyKaze]

experience and other personal factors can greatly affect how you do in a matchup.

generally fox/falcon are good vs peach but they're fairly common characters so you probably have experience vs them that you don't have vs something obscure like samus/luigi/etc.

 

[PandaCobo]

Ok that makes sense. The only thing is the only guy in my area that plays at my level is a mewtwo/Luigi/cf main so I understand the cf my I like that MU. But I would think I would like floaters. Is there any like practice techniques I could do to get better with floaty characters.
when playing computers they not really di Ing so when I get to tourneys I'm all out wack when playing them

 

[ItalianStallion]

PandaCobo is a bad person.

I might as well give my perspective on things since I am the one that plays him all the time.

He is better against fast fallers for three reasons:

1. He is able to punish their "fast-falliness" for combos.
2. He is able to punish their recoveries really well.
3. He plays against my CF/Falco a lot and when I play them I tend to be overly aggressive and approach a lot. So he uses that to his advantage.

Against floaties, he plays my Mewtwo, Luigi, and Zelda, where I tend to play a little more defensive, so he can't rely on overly aggressive approaches. I also have a little more wiggle room when it comes to recovering(Especially with Mewtwo), so he can't punish my recoveries so easily. And floaties don't fall fast for easy combos.

WD'ing back could definitely help with his spacing against my Mewtwo, but I think float camping would be more effective in that case.

If you really want to get better against floaties PandaCobo, in my scrub opinion, I would say you should hit them up more. You are so used to chasing people off the stage to one of the sides(Which is very effective against Falcon/Falco), but Mewtwo, Luigi, and Zelda take a while to die from that. So use moves like u-air and u-smash more.

But I guess I should add that even though he doesn't do as well against my floaties, he still beats them like 90% of the time.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Floaty vs floaty mostly just boils down to spacing and being gayer than the opponent.

Hitting up is great vs FFers because you can combo them. Hitting floaties sideways is great because it makes them have to recover (not so much an issue for Mewtwo and Puff) which applies a lot of pressure. Hitting them up is great because Peach has good juggles, but hitting someone offstage is almost always an acceptable decision.

 

[PandaCobo]

Ok I will have to practice hitting up and juggling more. Thanks! ItalianStallion we have to practice more haha. I need the floaty practice

 

[-Vocal-]

Floaty vs floaty mostly just boils down to spacing and being gayer than the opponent.

Accidental perfect description of Brawl - check.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Juggling or following floaties with Peach is doable but they involve a bit more timing, thinking, and precision than combos vs FFers and mid-weights because, well, they're not usually going to be true combos. So this means you have to compensate for air-dodges, time your move to beat potential combo-break attacks, not commit too heavily so you drop the combo if they double jump (or alternatively guess they'll double jump and overextend yourself), and much more...

There's an art to it. And sometimes it requires a bit of guesswork. Or massive option selection, if you have the tech skill / right setup for it.

 

[choknater]

does angemon have option selects though?

 

[KirbyKaze]

Angemon doesn't need them. He has simple answers for everything.

Opponent has absorbed all their dark power? Okay, just absorb all the holy power.

Opponent is making your allies' attacks evaporate? Okay, shoot holy energy beam.

Opponent is capable of reflecting holy energy beam? Okay, evolve to Holy Angemon.

 

[PandaCobo]

So basically just get more floaty practice and get used to how they play. Ok. Thanks a lot kirbykaze. This helps a lot

 

[KirbyKaze]

Yeah, get used to how your hitboxes/moves/stuff work vs. their hitboxes/moves/stuff. And then plan accordingly.

 

[MacD]

plan accordingly????

MacD's flow chart

they are beside you > dsmash

they are kinda far away from you > dash attack

they are above you > usmash

now you too can win all your matches, just ask choknater lolol

 

[-Vocal-]

What makes Peach's dash attack so good? Is it disjointed in a particularly good way? Does it just combo very well?

 

[KirbyKaze]

Great hitbox

Lunges forward a lot so it sneaks under moves

Fast

Good launch for combos / tech chases

Lots of reasons...

 

[arbustos]

whoooooops

 

[PandaCobo]

plan accordingly????

MacD's flow chart

they are beside you > dsmash

they are kinda far away from you > dash attack

they are above you > usmash

now you too can win all your matches, just ask choknater lolol

macdaddy. I based my peach. Off yours before I started learning how to be my own player. I agree this works well. But I tried kirbykaze tips and that helped a lot too. So thanks to both of u. My peach felt a lot better tonight.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

chaaaaange into digital champions
toooooo save the digital world

 

[ItalianStallion]

macdaddy. I based my peach. Off yours before I started learning how to be my own player. I agree this works well. But I tried kirbykaze tips and that helped a lot too. So thanks to both of u. My peach felt a lot better tonight.

He was so good! He did all these awesome things! All the Melee pros should converge on Springville to host a giant tourney so you all can see PandaCobo's awesome Peach!

/Obligatory Hype Post

Seriously though, after tonight's practice run, it was harder for me to play against his Peach with floaties(I had to really be creative just to lose respectably), while CF was easier(I actually won a match!). Of course it could have just been a weird night for either/both of us.

 

[KirbyKaze]

chaaaaange into digital champions
toooooo save the digital world

Angels are cheap

 

[ShroudedOne]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ox_GsAiiLO8

Too good. I now have another edge guard for Falcon.

I feel like spacies/fast fallers are just "business as usual," whereas floaties are more...fun. I feel more accomplished when I combo one.

As a side note, once I learned Peach's wavedash, I just started doing it randomly for no reason. If someone is at the far end of a stage, I just start doing it. It's fun to do once learned, but rather hard to learn.

 

[Palpi]

"learn" peach's wavedash?

 

[ShroudedOne]

Yeah. Well, learn the timing for it (cause it rather specific), and the feel for it.

 

[eet]

...believe it or not, people don't spontaneously start to have perfect tech skill.

 

[MacD]

macdaddy. I based my peach. Off yours before I started learning how to be my own player. I agree this works well. But I tried kirbykaze tips and that helped a lot too. So thanks to both of u. My peach felt a lot better tonight.

haha yea, i mainly jest about my use of the DADS. actually, listen to chok commentating my matches is like fun little history lessons about me haha

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTjGcjw3-UM 2:45ish he talks about my amazing DADS strat and why i'm better now

...believe it or not, people don't spontaneously start to have perfect tech skill.

god damn, if only they did, i'd hopefully have gotten that by now and be amazing

 

[PandaCobo]

Yeah macdaddy I watched that vid and u didn't do as many DADS as I'm used to seeing in your vids. But ur peach has improved a lot. Props to that.

 

[Wake]

Wavelanding onto platforms is nice...

 

[Roboturner]

what are some tips vs sheik. her tilts seem so much faster than my DS

 

[The Irish Mafia]

wavedash back is great. Floating is less helpful than usual. You should try to combo her lots, dtilt is useful for outspacing her tilts. If you see her jump, try to punish it by getting under her, with dash attack or a low-floated aerial. If she spams ftilt, run forward -> wd back dash attack works wonders for popping her up into your combo, and dtilt is effective too. Turnips are useful. Bair is amazing.
Other advice is in the OP.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Wavelanding onto platforms is nice...

Yeah, I agree, but half the time I end up floating, cause I think I'm Fox, who has a faster jump, and I press down too early. I have to consciously tell myself that I need to wait until I'm over the platform. Then again, I never really found a use for wavelanding onto platforms (or wavelanding with her in general).

If you need to know anything about Peach, though (other than the obvious ones), wavedash back is ****.

 

[baka4moé]

wavelanding onto platforms just makes you faster imo. every little thing counts, and if u want to position urself in a particular way wavelanding is important. i guess i also use it to techchase on platforms, like if i uthrow a fastfaller on them or something. oh i use it for recovering too, like if u space it correctly u can get back onstage fast enough/harder to punish u; or, from the ledge, at least waveland briefly on stage or a platform then fall back away to get ur double jump but from higher ground, making it easier to recover. very useful esp if ur above 100 percent imo. hope that makes sense...

 

[Wake]

Yeah, I agree, but half the time I end up floating, cause I think I'm Fox, who has a faster jump, and I press down too early. I have to consciously tell myself that I need to wait until I'm over the platform. Then again, I never really found a use for wavelanding onto platforms (or wavelanding with her in general).

If you need to know anything about Peach, though (other than the obvious ones), wavedash back is ****.

Well if I'm not mistaken, wavelanding in place on a platform reduces the lag of landing on the platform... though I'm not sure about this yet. It helps her flow better I think, which is great considering she's kinda clunky. It just helps push her speed to the limits, and follow up better.

Edit: Yeah! What Baka said!

 

[Palpi]

The thing I like about peach is that I get to think more in my game. Atleast, conscious thinking. I main fox, and I still do smart things (sometimes) but when I play peach, I have to not only try hard to space, but I have to try harder to punish, read, tech chase etc. Though it is harder, because peach is a worse character, it is relieving because I have time to breath, and think rather than being a fast moving fox all day.

I also like the fact that since I practiced my tech skill a lot with fox, I don't really need to learn anything with Peach involving tech skill.

I do have a question about the Falcon match up. I know approaching with turnips is good for marth, but is this the same with Falcon? I feel like he maneuvers too easily around them, and if I choose bad timing to pick a turnip, he can get my in shield, and when I have a turnip in my shield, that is pretty bad.

 

[Wake]

I don't like approaching with turnips against Falcon... he's so darn fast.

 

[Palpi]

Yeah, a lot of time it can work, but sometimes I just try to bait and zone him and catch him with gay moves

 

[ShroudedOne]

It's good to pull turnips sometimes when he's far away, but they aren't reliable for close combat, really. Trying to pull one in his face will get you knee'd, or something leading into knee. Like knee. Falcon's nair cuts through turnips kinda easily, and they generally don't do much to phase him.

@baka: For tech chasing on platforms, I find that I like waiting underneath the platform and reacting to what they try to do with a nair/uair/fair. But I see what you mean in that instance, I just feel like her jump is too slow sometimes. As far as general positioning goes, though, I completely agree, and have been practicing wavedashing on YS/BF with her. I guess I just need to apply it better.

 

[baka4moé]

^ if im tech chasing on a platform with a wl, i try to follow up with a grab or dash attack to continue the combo. its a nice mix up, as only a uair (if u tech chase from below) can continue a combo. this is of course only if i had enough time to react, and typically on smaller stages (like not dreamland as much...). idk, just my .02, dont know if its useful. im sure there are even better applications.

 

[¿Qué?]

I got this.


Thanks, VaNz.

 

[WIDL]

I feel noobish to ask this, but how do you deal with Foxes and Falcos shining your turnips back atcha? I can never seem to punish it... it must be punishable? QQ

Oh, and worst stage vs. Captain Falcon? I get by on pretty much any neutral, but I kinda dislike Yoshi's vs. pretty much anyone.

 

[Armada]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIsrajjUTts

1.18

You can coming from angels when the turnip donsen´t hit you and then you can beat the **** out of them =).

 

[WIDL]

Oh nice! I tend to do short-hop turnip throws, which pretty much **** up my game. Maybe it's time to be more cautious with that, and rather do it like that if I see an opening!

We should talk some matchups (matchups I hate) over a game of Mario Party 5 at BEAST II.

(alle vet at det er trøndere som vinner i lotto!)