VaNz Stuff.. about Peach (Tactical Discussion)

[Wake]

Yeah! All the other Peach mains need your help! SHEESH!

Question: Do you think Peach/Marth is close to even?

 

[Armada]

I think it´s kinda close to even.

Marth has the advantage but it´s not a big advantage.
Between 55-45 - 60-40.

But yeah I guess 60-40 is a bit to big cause the MU is not bad.
The MU is hard to learn but ones you know it it becomes so much easier.

 

[Wake]

I think it´s kinda close to even.

Marth has the advantage but it´s not a big advantage.
Between 55-45 - 60-40.

But yeah I guess 60-40 is a bit to big cause the MU is not bad.
The MU is hard to learn but ones you know it it becomes so much easier.

Yeah that's what I was thinking. At least, I don't have much trouble with the Marths at my level. I think the MU is what you said 55-45 because once you learn the MU, it really isn't too difficult (except on Yoshi's Story ).

I think Fox is much much harder.

 

[Armada]

Yeah YS is the worst stage for Peach against Marth.

And Fox is also a way harder MU for Peach specially in ntsc.

 

[Wake]

Do you think Yoshi's Story or Pokemon Stadium is better for Peach against Fox? I never know which stage to ban against Fox players... they both seem pretty bad...

 

[eet]

I guess I just don't understand the Marth MU. I play it terrible when there are platforms -- I just get 'trapped' above Marth and his ground+aerial game when people are above him is stupid. ._.

 

[Palpi]

I am a fox main trying to take my peach places, and I kind of struggle with marth. It seems like I can't get enough hits in. When I get in, I do some damage, but it seems like Marth gets the better end of the stick the majority of the time.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Dash attack is my solution to all problems marth

 

[Wake]

Grab Marth, you'll have a blast I promise. Marth's shield is dumb too, so some good FC and dsmash pressure is awesome. His poor little feet always seem to get caught hahaha. Turnip edge guards are good... regrab those vegetables they will come in handy. FC Fair can lead into some good stuff, you just gotta be careful with your timing and spacing to make sure it actually lands .

Her dash attack can get under some of Marth's approaches and mess him up. Anyways, I'm sure there's a lot of good Marth MU stuff on the front page... And then there's that threshold where you're just at too high of a percent to easily kill. It's awesome.

 

[-Vocal-]

Hey, I've been browsing through the stickies but I can't seem to find anything on it - what are Peach's grab followups? The few times I've been able to actually land a grab on my friend I feel like I waste the opportunity due to not knowing how to use it properly :<

 

[Turazrok]

Dthrow usmash... wait a minute.

 

[Wake]

The first page of this thread has good Marth MU info. Dthrow to dash attack is nice. You might be able to grab Marth again if the DI is funny... or hit him with an upsmash. Anyone know if uthrow on Marth can lead to anything nice? Sometimes I can hit him with an uthrow uair.

Oh yeah, and dtilt is sooo good. I like dtilt to fc uairs or fc nair. Get really good at spacing that dtilt.

 

[Rosedemon]

We just had this dthrow options discussion.

If they dont DI, it chaingrabs almost every character in the game (besides fast fallers). I dont know the %s by heart because I use how high they go as an indicator. Its something thats very easy to test and get a feel for. If they're too high to be chain thrown, it almost always leads into a free upsmash (would should kill if they're too high to be regrabbed.

If they do DI, then you get your free dash attack.

 

[baka4moé]

fthrow to fthrow, fthrow to dash attack

 

[Armada]

Do you think Yoshi's Story or Pokemon Stadium is better for Peach against Fox? I never know which stage to ban against Fox players... they both seem pretty bad...

I think YS is way better for Peach against Fox.
Most of the fox players like a lot of space and PS gives them that. Laser camping is really good against her and works better at Stadium if you ask me. Plattform "camping" dosen´t work good at YS sience the top plattform is not high enough and your uair reach throw it.

95% of the time fox is killing you with a u-air/uppsmash so they like a low celling but want a lot of room for their recovery.

YS don´t give it to them so I think it´s easier to take them and also many times they dies before they can make a upp-b so that´s good.

I think small stages makes it easier for Peach to combo her opponents aswell.

1: Small stages means less room less rooms means more easy to combo.
It is easier cause they don´t have so much ground when they need to tech. If they are close to the edge the rull away option is much worse then if you are in the middle of the stage and they are rolling away (cause in many situations it´s impossible to catch them cause Peach is to slow).

If they are DIing into a plattform WAIT and play on reaction (in most situations and if you don´t have a really strong feeling what direction where they are going to).

Many times good DI against Peach means they DI away and small stages means they a lot of times will be off stage if they are doing that so you kinda force them to go offstage or take a couple more hits.

YS>PS

=)

 

[ShroudedOne]

Yeah, people seem to lump in defensive with campy, which I don't like, either. There is clearly a difference. Personally, I don't see a problem with either (though defensive play is preferred).

Never thought I'd see Armada in the Peach boards, though. That's kinda cool.

As far as where I feel comfortable, I'm finding that I like Battlefield and Yoshi's Story a LOT. Dreamland is okay, I guess, even though Fox can camp Peach there pretty well, and I hate FoD, no matter who I am, or who I'm up against. FD is pretty nice, too. Whenever I think "Fox," I think that I'd want to take him to a place where edgeguards would be easiest, so YS makes sense (despite the fact that you die at 60). Or to FD for chaingrabs.

 

[-Vocal-]

The first page of this thread has good Marth MU info. Dthrow to dash attack is nice. You might be able to grab Marth again if the DI is funny... or hit him with an upsmash. Anyone know if uthrow on Marth can lead to anything nice? Sometimes I can hit him with an uthrow uair.

Oh yeah, and dtilt is sooo good. I like dtilt to fc uairs or fc nair. Get really good at spacing that dtilt.

Oh yes! This is something I keep on meaning to ask - why isn't DTilt used more? For instance, Armada, I've watched a lot of your videos but it seemed like the only character that you regularly used DTilt on was Sheik, but when you did use it it led to some good followups. Why is this? Is it just a matter of pure spacing?

 

[Palpi]

I am trying to figure our times to use d-tilt and I try to use it, but often it fails. I would like to know some situations to look for concerning dtilt.

 

[Armada]

Vocal: The reason why I use it against Sheik a lot is cause her air mobility is terrible.
It´s a lot easier to use d-tilt if they can´t move fast in the air. Sheik also is one of the chars that get punished (for real) a lot from that move.

I use the d-tilt against Falco/Fox if they are approacinh and they have kinda much % cause then I can conect to a upp-smash

Against other chars diffrent things works better in most cases and that´s why I don´t use it to much (like against floatys it´s not good).

But in some situations it works against Marth when he´s approaching with fair but he´s fair have better range + he has better air mobility so it is way harder to do a good punish from d-tilt

Hopefully I could explain it good enough

 

[-Vocal-]

Vocal: The reason why I use it against Sheik a lot is cause her air mobility is terrible.
It´s a lot easier to use d-tilt if they can´t move fast in the air. Sheik also is one of the chars that get punished (for real) a lot from that move.

I use the d-tilt against Falco/Fox if they are approacinh and they have kinda much % cause then I can conect to a upp-smash

Against other chars diffrent things works better in most cases and that´s why I don´t use it to much (like against floatys it´s not good).

But in some situations it works against Marth when he´s approaching with fair but he´s fair have better range + he has better air mobility so it is way harder to do a good punish from d-tilt

Hopefully I could explain it good enough

Yea, that all makes sense. I'm new to Peach so I'm still figuring out what works best where, so I guess it will just come with time.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Hey, Armada, is there ever a good place for f-tilt? I'm looking at including it in chaingrabs, or as just something funky that they aren't expecting, but I'm not sure if there could be a place for it.

 

[Armada]

I actually think I have found (maybe someone did this before me but Im not sure cause I mostly watch my own videos) a way to use the f-tilt.

But I have to try it first to see if it works out like I hope it does (even if it does it´s not something special).

The move in general is really bad to be honest.
I have tried every move in pretty much every situaion and f-tilt is not a move I recomend

 

[Palpi]

I accidently use f-tilt all of the time and it some times works, but I would agree that its applications are way too limited and dependent on other factors.

 

[ShroudedOne]

@Armada: I see. I'll be waiting for the update, then.

I accidentally use it too, when I'm trying to dash attack. It happens soooooo much, and I was wondering if I could parlay that into anything useful.

 

[Palpi]

I am going to play Alex with sooooo much peach today. You better be scared, he's gotten a lot better

 

[ConnorTheKid]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ox_GsAiiLO8

 

[Palpi]

Connor, okay....okay.

 

[Battlecow]

Dammit

There goes my dream of being the best straight peach main in the world someday.

<3 Armada. In a "bro" kind of way.

 

[MacD]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ox_GsAiiLO8

this video is full of amazingness

still makes me laugh sooooo hard

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ox_gsaiilo8

o_o


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[Wake]

Thanks Armada. I guess I'll try banning Pokemon Stadium against Fox instead of Yoshi's Story and try it out .

Yeah I use ftilt on accident when I want to dash attack too... I don't do that with any other character though. It's so dumb because sometimes it ruins a good or easy follow up.

 

[PandaCobo]

Is there anyway to avoid the ftilt when trying to dash attack. So many times I set up combos and then I end up punished because I ftilt instead of dash attack

 

[john!]

you have to know exactly when all your moves end. it's like chaingrabbing. when you ftilt instead of dash attack, it's cuz you pressed left/right too early and started walking instead of dashing.

 

[PandaCobo]

Ok that makes a lot of sense. I will have to work a lot harder to make my peach more competitive. It seems like peachs mains are becoming a lot more technical now. Is becoming more techy making peachs better or is that just the way peachs metagame is going?

 

[john!]

"technical" is kind of a loose term. you can do things with peach that require a lot of button presses in a short amount of time, but unlike some characters, i don't think spamming tech skill with peach will get you anywhere unless you develop other skills

 

[Wake]

Does simply spamming tech skill get any character anywhere?. You have to be smart enough to use any sort of tech skill with any character. Just sitting there in a corner and doing the fastest possible fc nairs or multishining or whatever isn't going to do much...

 

[PandaCobo]

By techy i meant like tons of wd and and wave lands. My peach does some wave dashing but not a lot. I watched some of the genesis 2 bids and most peachs I saw had lots of wave dashing that wasn't just spacing or to get to a dash attack faster. It almost seemed like just random wave dashes. Or maybe I'm just a noob still

 

[john!]

you don't HAVE to wd as peach, it just helps a lot with positioning. you can definitely focus on getting used to peach's style of play, and then pick up wavedashing later on.

 

[KirbyKaze]

wavedash back cannot be replaced by any other movement technique

nothing else gives that kind of positioning (except empty pivot)

so yeah, you need to be able to wavedash

waevdash back d-smash is really good vs a lot of characters, particularly those with low range

 

[PandaCobo]

Ok I do wave dash. John! U looked at my vids and help me improve a lot. Another question is playing fast fallers easier for a peach? When I play fast fallers I think it much easier then playing a floaty character like Luigi or Zelda. But the MU shows I should be doing better against the floaters