VaNz Stuff.. about Peach (Tactical Discussion)

[mers]

So I just started trying to learn Peach for kicks, and I have a question:

Is it possible to float directly out of tumble without using your double jump? I'll get hit far offstage, hold down while in tumble, then when I hit jump it makes that double jump noise and it's gone. Am I just awful, or do I have to break tumble first?

 

[MacD]

you can either hold down before and then jump

or hold jump during your hitstun, then wiggle out so you float out of the tumble

 

[Composeur]

you can either hold down before and then jump

or hold jump during your hitstun, then wiggle out so you float out of the tumble

Huh, I never thought of that second one. This stuff is really useful to me, because I feel like tumble is one of the biggest banes of my existence. So you're saying that if you're holding a jump button when tumble ends that she'll automatically float without using her second jump, right? But realistically, at higher percents you'd have to wiggle out pretty hard in order for it to be useful. Is that ever an option when you're being comboed? I find that I want to airdodge out a lot, but it requires wiggling, or using your second jump first, if you still have one, right?

Also, thanks for answering the last questions, McCain <3

I can't remember the last time I saw so much useful advice in this forum.

KirbyKaze, you were talking about consistently being able to get out of falco's bull**** roller-coaster combos at higher percents (barring platform interference) being largely dependent on resisting nair urges. What do you do instead, if he's right below you?

 

[baka4moé]

^ yeah wiggling out when your float hasn't been used is super useful for recovering, especially if you get hit far away horizontally (like sheik's fair or something) and your upb is insufficient for getting back. i guess if you even have your double jump left you could float first then double jump later to mix things up. iono.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

^ thats a pretty good plan, wish i could pull it off

 

[DoH]

You can also toad and float out of that

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

^now that is an easy method i could take advantage of

 

[Composeur]

You can toad out of tumble? I thought the only things that did that were aerials, double-jumps, and up+Bing. Interesting. Do you think that's practical, Landon?

 

[DoH]

If you're super high up where they can't get you, yes.

 

[baka4moé]

for those who want a visual if they haven't seen something like it already, at around 6:15 in this vid is a good example of the benefits to wiggling out. if i upb'd right away edgeguarding would've been trivial.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20bkxmKSksc

also please excuse the bad gameplay, this is just for demonstrational purposes. >_< i know i made a lot of mistakes lol...

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

You can toad out of tumble? I thought the only things that did that were aerials, double-jumps, and up+Bing. Interesting. Do you think that's practical, Landon?

you can do literally anything out of tumble except airdodge (and float for peach)

 

[MacD]

So you're saying that if you're holding a jump button when tumble ends that she'll automatically float without using her second jump, right? But realistically, at higher percents you'd have to wiggle out pretty hard in order for it to be useful. Is that ever an option when you're being comboed? I find that I want to airdodge out a lot, but it requires wiggling, or using your second jump first, if you still have one, right?

the only time i wiggle out > float is like when i'm hit off stage or something and want to float high (and don't feel like toading haha). i personally never wiggle out unless i'm like 20 miles away from the stage and feel like doing it (though i'll normally uair then)

when i'm being combo'd i go for the dj airdodge, but again, that just me personally and lazyly

You can also toad and float out of that

this too, i was going to say it if someone else didn't

If you're super high up where they can't get you, yes.

just to expand, it's not necessarily high, but also far away. main point though is be OUT OF RANGE if you are going to toad > float

so maybe if sheik hit you with a fair and you DI'd poorly, you can toad at ledge grab level then float out of that if you are farish off stage

 

[KirbyKaze]

You guys gotta give up the Toad now.

 

[ChivalRuse]

You gotta be like Armada and double jump from the ledge to the stage with Toad.

 

[Zankoku]

After using a lot of default ledge options because of Peach's slow double jump, a lot of people just don't react to when you actually go for a ledge-hop, lol.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

Ledgehop isn't terrible, too. Can't say I've lost too many stocks doing it intentionally.

 

[MacD]

You guys gotta give up the Toad now.

(courtesy of alan)

You gotta be like Armada and double jump from the ledge to the stage with Toad.

***** please

i've been doing that so long that i got complements from ken at OC3

 

[thesage]

I like to ledgehop toad...

I did it first

 

[KirbyKaze]

 

[bladeofapollo]

I have vids of doing it

WRU@THESAGE!?!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbl0dQ0lj2M#t=1m2s

 

[Composeur]

rofl @ happy feet

 

[Zankoku]

More of me, I guess. I feel like I'm not playing the Falco matchup right. Comments, advice, tips, pointing out of bad habits would all be appreciated

vs trahh Fox
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VHHQwwNETQ

vs Mi Ganon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gU5l358qrAc

vs SwordSaint Falco
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8agrMZMxagI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMsZEyCyudA

 

[eet]

SwordSaint is good at laser pressure and waiting and punishing so, no johns. But I think you could have used turnips to approach more (its hard with the lasers :\), and some stocks you would kinda stay on the ground and dash attack and get shine outta shield'd -- I usually turnip pull then float above falcos dbl laser range so I have a few options.

Also, there were a few grabs you could have basically chain grabbed but you went for up throw downsmash and he DId and techd away. Alot of peach's dont like to take falco to fd but I would cg the **** outta that bird.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I feel like you're just throwing out D-smashes all the time, hoping he'll be stupid and jump into them. Same with dash attack. And you stick to the ground so hard it just lets Falco get his whole ground control going and you really can't compete with that, even with powershielding here and there. You really need to use your float aerials (and air game in general) against someone like Falco because from how you're doing stuff, you're not positioned to adequately challenge him. Very few characters can actually fight Falco head on, ground vs ground, the way you're doing it.

 

[Wake]

Have any of you used usmash oos ever? Can you think of any instances where Peach's usmash oos is useful?

 

[MacD]

i've done it before, killed a puff that was above me that way

i think if puff pounds your shield, it'll like sweat spot on her, maybe if another peach (and maybe other characters) dash attacks your shield, it'd sweat spot but who knows

 

[bladeofapollo]

It's also a decent punish for Ganon's Wizard Foot if you're in the right spot. However, I've heard a lot of people talk about Usmash OoS against Fox and Falco full-hop Dair. I haven't tried it myself, but it's an interesting choice.

 

[Wake]

Hmm that's interesting. Thanks, I think I'll test it out in some matches

 

[KirbyKaze]

I would think Uair OOS (among others) would be a better counter to FH Dairs for a lot of reasons but I guess it's also somewhat harder to time because it doesn't have the gratuitous invincibility and longer duration.

 

[Zankoku]

And you stick to the ground so hard it just lets Falco get his whole ground control going and you really can't compete with that, even with powershielding here and there.

Yeah, I'm really feeling that too after reviewing the vids. Thanks for the tips.

 

[Winston]

i've done it before, killed a puff that was above me that way

i think if puff pounds your shield, it'll like sweat spot on her, maybe if another peach (and maybe other characters) dash attacks your shield, it'd sweat spot but who knows

Is this peach boards terminology for the strong hitboxes Peach has on the side for usmash?

 

[DoH]

McCain is trying to say sweet spot, but his California education has failed him.

The sweet spot is her shoulder pads, inside of her. Usmash oos is great in dittos when they dash attack you and you can get your shield up in time, or against any other character with a laggy dash attack

 

[Composeur]

That would make her sweet spot pretty close to her sweat spot, really.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

rofl composeur

imo, usmash oos is useful for punishes, but should be used with caution in other situations, like trying to deal with someone coming in too high, such as puff or spacies. If you're using it oos, that means you're in shield, so your options are limited. Unless you're baiting them with shielding, most of the situations where you're going to usmash them give you plenty of time to prepare, so just usmash normally and be where ever you want to be. You get more control spacewise if you just don't think about it in terms of "oos". I think it's safe to say that for the most part, it'd be safter, more effective, or leaving you in a better position, to do a nair oos as oppose to usmash, but it's obviously situational. just my $0.02

 

[eet]

A lot of times if I think a spacey is about to up B/side B to the middle of the stage Ill just charge up Smash and soft hit them and pop them up into a nair. Its kinda hilarious.

 

[MacD]

McCain is trying to say sweet spot, but his California education has failed him.

The sweet spot is her shoulder pads, inside of her. Usmash oos is great in dittos when they dash attack you and you can get your shield up in time, or against any other character with a laggy dash attack

we just wanna have blonde hair, tan, and surf, is that too much to ask?

 

[xXx-NoobKing-xXx]

U ***'n ****, vanz. Mm at genesis plz

 

[Wake]

Hey Vanz, did you ever make that Peach combo video? I saw the trailer...

 

[❀W.E.M.P.❀]

Here is the first three.

I really need to play more than just when pittsburgh comes down to north houston.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Xrp-IOgqzg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WWMFdlEKHY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hw1dcBG0mRA


will upload more tonight possibly. I work tonight, so we'll see.

 

[john!]

i noticed that you have a really defensive style, which is fine except you missed a lot of punishes when they made mistakes. link realized this at the end of the first match and went more aggressive on you and made a comeback. can't let link approach you on his own terms, make him scared of you otherwise good matches, these are kind of general comments and i'll write more later if i notice anything.