Top ten at Apex 2013 predictions.

[Divinokage]

But it's not really an upset when the skill level in between the top 5 is relatively similar. But if you place them in a certain order of how they fight each other, the balance definitely tips on one way more than the other because of either matchups or the style they use. I guess that's why it would be amazing to see a pool of the top 5 fighting, I wouldn't mind to see that.

 

[leffen]

This is seriously hilarious. Hax has now realized how ****ing awful it seemed when he chickened out because of no bans.
Lets go through it.

1.

i
"stage johns"? no MM i ever play won't have bans. spacies players are already at enough of an advantage in this game, it makes NO sense to not have bans and favor them even harder.

Are you serious? Last time I checked, spacies do not like FD. Spacies suffer badly from not having a ban, and just because your matchup is not favored by the ruleset does not mean you can change it to your ****ing favor just because you're scared of losing.

2.

you act like i'm asking for some absurd ruleset; i'm asking for the ruleset that's in place at every ****ing tournament i go to (and if it's not, it's still the one we play with because getting rid of bans doesn't make any ****ing sense)

You are asking for an absurd ruleset. Not only is the principle of you OPENLY saying that it is to make it more in your favor (who the hell in their right mind would accept this with something on the line?), you're also either really ******** or outright lying to make it seem like this is the norm.

First of, "im asking for the ruleset that's in place at every ****ing tournament i go to". Lets check out how valid this is.

1. Rom 5:

For Best of 5 sets, there are no stage bans.

It was really obvious that this was also accepted, since it was featured in the m2k vs unknown522 debate.
2. NEC:

Both Melee and Brawl will be using the Apex 2013 ruleset listed here

http://www.apex-series.com/rules/rules-melee/

The link itself is not up yet, but as Alex strife has already stated, it will have bans.
3. The big house 2

1. Winner announces stage ban (except in best-of-5 sets)

Now how the **** can he still support having bans? Maybe his locals feature the ruleset he suggests? Then you could at least see where he is coming from, right?
WRONG.

While Sudden death and No johns (NYC locals) both feature this rule:

•Stage Knock Out: Each person may choose one stage to be disabled for the entire set, it must be chosen at the beginning of the set, after initial characters are chosen.

It is not what Hax is suggesting. Notice how it says "it must be chosen at the beginning of the set, after initial characters are chosen.", not after the first match.

Additionally, Sudden death has KJ64 on, and No johns has Brinstar and Rainbow ride in addition to KJ64.

Did Hax suggest this ruleset? No! He made up a brand new ruleset, specifically tailored to give him the biggest advantage possible. And boy is it a ******** RULESET.

Lets see his theory post earlier:

Falcon bans FoD, Fox bans DL64

game 1 is struck to FD (Falcon strikes Yoshi's/FoD, Fox strikes DL64/BF) - Falcon wins
game 2 - Yoshi's - Fox wins
game 3 - Battlefield - Falcon wins
game 4 - Stadium - Fox wins
game 5 - FD again

much fairer system

Falcon wins the first game, and he gets to counterpick battlefield and then go back to the stage they first striked to (in other words, he gets one real counterpick, since we have to assume that the striked stage is neutral, and that falcon just won by being better)

Fox gets 2 counterpicks, YS and Stadium.

In other words, you get punished for winning the first game.

Much fairer system? Are you ****ing kidding me? I want to give Hax the credit of just trying to lie to get his way and hope that no one notices, but since he didn't realize how NOT ONE of his previous tournaments has featured the ruleset he says they did, I'm just gonna go ahead and state the most probably truth:

Hax is just too ****ing stupid to read and remember the ruleset.




In closing, I'd like to say that if Hax is not gonna confess his multiple failures and lies regarding his proposed failure of a ruleset, AND agree to play on the official ruleset of Apex, we have no money match.

This is not me backing out, this is him first backing out of the ruleset used in EVERY NATIONAL THIS YEAR, and then coming back and trying to make me look like the one who is not willing to do the MM (which has never been the case).

 

[-Jumpman-]

Come on Leffen lol. Who gives a **** who would win. You're arrogant and delusional regardless.

 

[Metal Reeper]

Agree with jumpman. I'm with Hax. If you are better then you'll be fine leffen.

 

[Froggy]

Agree with jumpman. I'm with Hax. If you are better then you'll be fine leffen.

That's bull****, one player shouldn't be handicapped. If Hax is going to call Leffen out then he should do so as a man and play on the Apex ruleset(which more and more is the standard now)

 

[outofphase]

lol spacies arent even bad on fd. they just arent op like on other stages

 

[Landry]

That's bull****, one player shouldn't be handicapped. If Hax is going to call Leffen out then he should do so as a man and play on the Apex ruleset(which more and more is the standard now)

this

10char

 

[Hax]

oh my i didn't even BOTHER to read that post. but i'm able to get from it that leffen doesn't wanna do bans, in which case, no deal. i already made a huge compromise for him so that this MM could happen; if he's not meeting my extremely reasonable terms then forget it.

there is no possible argument for no bans making for a better test of raw skill than bans. not one. if his goal is to prove who the better player is, then he doesn't need a near-free win on FoD. Apex ruleset or not, anyone with a rational understanding of this game knows this is true.

feel free to interpret this as me *****ing out (LOL). i just want to be done with this kid. i've wasted far too much ****ing time on him.

i've got a ton on the line in my MM with S2J and couldn't care less about this waste of sperm as to be distracted by him anymore. i'm out

 

[Landry]

I can't beat Leffen without bans

10chars of quote

 

[Chroma]

ahaha Tarv's bracket:
S2J vs Armada, Round 2 Winners
it's guaranteed at this point

 

[Battlecow]

Oh my god hax **** you for making me agree with froggy and leffen

but yeah you pretty much *****ed out, if you won't play him by apex rules at apex then lol you

end of that story I guess

 

[Habefiet]

'grats on the win Leffen, I really thought you were too far behind to come back but you clutched it out. Color me impressed.

Is Plup attending Apex? Has he been practicing a lot or did he just kinda show up and snag second in doubles with HBox only to disappear into the void leaving us without hopes for a rising Samus?

Also is Hanky Panky attending Apex

 

[SonuvaBeach]

I'm annoyed of literally everyone in this thread right now.

Seriously. Hax shouldn't give a **** what all you people think, he has proven himself multiple times and when he outplaces him he will have proven it again.

Both sides are guilty. Leffen should not have any problem's with Hax's ruleset if he actually considers himself that good. He makes clear to everyone how good he ****in is and puts everyone else down, why doesn't he step up to the plate and prove it? Same goes for Hax. But Leffen is an *******, whereas Hax is the man.

 

[Biglard]

I think Hax and Leffen should play vodka smash, best of 51. The winner of the match drinks a shot.

 

[stabbedbyanipple]

For the sake of my faith in smashboards, please tell me that others also hate the people who contribute nothing to the community, talk a bunch of **** on the boards to people MUCH better than them, and probably don't even play this game.

offenders: Froggy/blistering speed/landry (AND MANY MORE)

 

[Landry]

For the sake of my faith in smashboards, please tell me that others also hate the people who contribute nothing to the community, talk a bunch of **** on the boards to people MUCH better than them, and probably don't even play this game.

offenders: Froggy/blistering speed/landry (AND MANY MORE)

Yo, for the record I was just trying to make a point. If Hax thinks he's better than he should just play Leffen. If he thinks he can't win without bans then he should just say that.

I'm not saying I could beat either of them, tho. Those dudes are both great.

 

[ShrieK1295]

Regardless of which ruleset is more standard, in this Leffen vs Hax debacle, do people think what Leffen is saying is legit about stages? In Falcon vs Fox, I don't think FD or BF offer any significant advantage to Falcon. FD gives free tech chases, but it's hard to get in on campy foxes (Darkrain vs kels STTF 5 made me tt), harder to get out of combos, and impossible to recover. BF compared to other stages lets characters get out of Falcon combos easier. Not trying to say these are particularly bad for Falcon, just that these stages don't seem bad to me for Fox against Falon. Even DL64 isn't so bad for Fox, as he is comparably fast and Falcon can't camp lasers. I feel like YS and PS shouldn't be considered so bad for Falcon either.. PS neutral gives Falcon lots of space, platforms that are easy to get kills off of, and 2 or 3 of the stage changes (3 for S2J) are pretty ok for Falcon as well. YS gives more recovery options than any other stages, the easiest kills, and the freest platform tech chases. For this matchup, the whining about stages besides FoD/DL64 seems like real garbage to me.

 

[KirbyKaze]

1. Kage the Warrior

YOU HEARD ME

 

[The Business]

This thread is so out of hand

Love it, love every part of it

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

1. Kage the Warrior

YOU HEARD ME

I support this.

also 2. Taj

 

[Metal Reeper]

1 mango
2 Pp
3 armada
4 m2k
5 pewpewu
6 hbox
7 hax$$$
8 axe
9 Cactuar
10 javi

 

[MaskedMarth]

5-6. Hax
5-6. Leffen

 

[Battlecow]

Wow not even I like PPU that much

You know what match I would love to see? PPU vs wobbles. Wobbles is an anti-marth magician, but PPU did WORK on fly

 

[Warhawk]

Are you serious? Last time I checked, spacies do not like FD. Spacies suffer badly from not having a ban, and just because your matchup is not favored by the ruleset does not mean you can change it to your ****ing favor just because you're scared of losing.

Falcon vs Fox final destination is still in Fox's favor. Spacies definitely benefit from banless sets against Falcon considering how terrible FoD is for Falcon against Fox.

You are asking for an absurd ruleset. Not only is the principle of you OPENLY saying that it is to make it more in your favor (who the hell in their right mind would accept this with something on the line?)

Even under the ruleset he stated every matchup is still in your favor though, so its not like he's put you at some disadvantage with this ruleset.

Falcon wins the first game, and he gets to counterpick battlefield and then go back to the stage they first striked to (in other words, he gets one real counterpick, since we have to assume that the striked stage is neutral, and that falcon just won by being better)

Fox gets 2 counterpicks, YS and Stadium.

In other words, you get punished for winning the first game.

Much fairer system? Are you ****ing kidding me?

I don't know where you're pulling out that the winner of the first game is punished but Falcon has to pick from the first stage again because even under this ruleset the stage selection is in Fox's favor, not because the ruleset attempts to disadvantage the winner of the first match. Why it really matters where the hell the ruleset came from anyways doesn't really matter either. The ruleset is to make sure with money on the line to try and test raw skill between you in some sort of grudge match style money match or whatever and that it is as even as possible going in so that skill alone should determine the winner. Hax's ruleset actually makes more sense in this way than any tournament ruleset (tournament ruleset is probably more fair overall but not for every matchup, Hax's ruleset makes the Falcon vs Fox matchup more even). Why do money matches have to necessarily use a tournament ruleset? They don't.

That all being said while Hax's ruleset for this particular money match makes sense from a standpoint of determining who's more skilled he definitely should have mentioned this in his terms before you both agreed on a 50 dollar money match. Adding rules after the match has already been agreed on is kinda sketchy. His ruleset definitely deviates from the normal ruleset and should have to be mentioned in advance since it wouldn't be expected to be the rules of the match, regardless of how they do things in New York tournaments or whatever. Since he didn't say it in advance Hax should just accept the deal he already made and do the money match.

 

[Deleted member]

good ppl lets get some 20 dollar+ MMs going

 

[B_AWAL]

this ha turned into a melee top 10 thread. & the hax vs leffen discussion

 

[GOTM]

I don't see what is so unreasonable about Hax asking for bans. He's literally only asking to not play on FoD, which is so free for top level spacies against Falcon it's not even funny.

Leffen, just ban your least favorite neutral and get on with it.

If Leffen thinks he can beat Hax without bans, there's absolutely no reason why he shouldn't think he can beat him with bans, unless he was counting on a free win, which supports Hax's point anyway.

To me it seems that Hax is a bit more reasonable here, and knows the set will be close, so why would he want to give away a game? I don't care how good you are, if you're playing a top level player as Falcon on FoD you're literally asking for a loss. Hax is arguably the best Falcon in the game right now and he knows it, why doesn't anyone else?

Either way, a set with FoD banned, and Leffen's least favorite neutral banned, is still a set that is just as fair to both players. Hax gets what he wants, and Leffen gets more or less the same exact thing (without a free win).

 

[KirbyKaze]

I'm gonna melt children in a cauldron.

Children soup MMs let's go.

 

[Ripple]

its unreasonable because its not fair.

It doesn't matter that fox auto wins a MU on a specific stage. That's part of falcons weakness and hax has to deal with it. He gains a tremendous advantage more than a fox player does by banning FD, where fox can still win.

Hax is asking to completely rid his character of a huge weakness that's part of his design.


I find it hilarious that hax says he wants to measure raw skill. Raw skill includes dealing with a characters flaws and not just ignoring them.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Just like banning Temple is getting rid of a huge advantage of Fox's? Why doesn't Fox deserve to have that stage legal, it's a test of raw skill after all, Falcon losing 100:0 there is a character flaw.

 

[KrazyKnux]

uh oh, I'm feeling a really bad argument is about to happen.

Great.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

The argument isn't bad at all. I'm just pointing out that Falcon doesn't deserve to lose to Fox on FoD any more than he deserves to lose on any stage.

The stage list alters the match-up and there is no "standard".

 

[Battlecow]

the standard is the apex ruleset

If I ask for a falcon vs fox mm, you say "OK, but it has to be green greens only" and I say "No," who chickened out?

 

[KrazyKnux]

I mean, while i don't think banning temple was a good example to support your argument, I'm just saying in general smashboards gets into hilarious arguments that go nowhere.

I can feel one brewing right about now.

 

[MaskedMarth]

It's just two people who hate each other enough both to want to crush each other and to be super-stubborn when it comes to rules.

Except Leffen really comes off better because money johns are legit and he's demanding a more standard ruleset.

Also heavy words are being thrown on both sides but Hax is being more abusive.

Anyways I'll root for Axe, he's a polite guy..

 

[Dr Peepee]

guys do you not believe in the warrior spirit anymore wtf

KK I believe in you and your love of canada dw baby



ps my marth says hi to everyone
he's soooo funnnnnnn and goooodddddd


someone MM him

like anyone

 

[KirbyKaze]

Oh Kevin I know you've got my back <3

 

[Divinokage]

Ill MM that Marth, if I can go..

 

[Battlecow]

ps my marth says hi to everyone
he's soooo funnnnnnn and goooodddddd


someone MM him

like anyone

Where you at armada? scared to lose your socialist welfare-money?



but seriously that's a MM I wanna see.

 

[Hax]

the MM clearly isn't happening, so forget it. no amount of arguing is gonna make either side budge

the intense hatred that's both come out of my mouth + been directed at me by leffen in the past few days isn't good for my health. it's done nothing but stress me out, and i'm done with it quite frankly. the last thing i need is for a huge argument over a ruleset to erupt.

leffen, i don't like you one bit but i'm done beefing with you. lol @ any claims you've made about me being scared to play you, though. i can respond to any claims just as easily by saying you're scared to play me with bans on, but i wouldn't do that because i don't think either of us are scared to play each other. we're just 2 sides that hate each other and are unwilling to compromise for each other. neither of us are asking for anything outlandish; my ruleset is reasonable because it's what i genuinely believed the Apex ruleset was, it's what i play with at all tournies i go to, and i'm positive that it makes for the fairest version of Melee. your ruleset is reasonable to ask for because it's the Apex 2013 ruleset.

i'll gladly play you in several friendlies at Apex to see who the better player is (me ). but all this tension/hatred? it's dumb, and i'm done with it.