The Unity Ruleset: Discussion

[Supreme Dirt]

Wait, why would you "replace" picto? That implies that the stage you're going to add is as competitively viable as Pictochat, and I for one don't feel like playing on Warioware.

 

[Life]

SD, you're reading into that too much.

It's most likely Japes, but I'd be unsurprised if a fledgling Norfair thread is hanging around in there too.

 

[WindMajor]

My guess on the next added stage to the ruleset is either Japes or Pirate Ship.

 

[Tin Man]

Off topic, I made a stage list picture for my tournament tomorrow, and I thought I'd post it here in case others wanted to use it:

I figure it would help newcomer players grasp the idea of neutrals and counter picks.

Thanks for this, I'm using this in the OP of my thread as well.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

My guess on the next added stage to the ruleset is either Japes or Pirate Ship.

Here's hoping its Pirate Ship.

 

[DeLux]

I would overwhelmingly hope that it's japes over pirate ship

 

[Tin Man]

So far it seems like the alleged Picto chat replacement could be either Japes, Norfair or pirate ship given the opinions of those in this thread. I wonder what other stages could be in the running. Perhaps green greens, and PTAD.

 

[Browny]

i call bull****. if they won, according to what it says at the beginning of every tourney thread

"payout will like
1. 60% of entry fees
2. 30% of entry fees
3. 10% of entry fees"

or however they divide it up. the fact is it always clearly states that the reward for winning the tournament is a set percentage of all the entry fees. people aren't gonna go if there is no money involved in the win. the winner has absolute claim to the entry fee percentage he won because it says so. if i were jipped out of my winnings for entering a tournament where it says ,"you will get this percentage of a filled pot for winning" i'd definately beat the **** out of whoever it is that jipped me because more than likely i paid good money to go out to that tournament to begin with so jipping out of the money would legitly cost an arm and a leg for them and probably make some extreme financial dilema for myself if i were counting on those winnings. saying it isn't the winner's money is load of bull**** because if they had known they would be jipped out of their money they definately wouldn't have paid to go

Wow lol you couldnt be more misguided. Heres the situation. Assume top 3 pay-out, and you placed third while 2 randoms placed 1st and second. With a $100 pot, you would win $10 and no one below you wins anything. Now same situation, but this time you place third and 2 friends who split placed first and second. You win $10, and no one below you wins anything.

Funny that... the EXACT SAME results for every single person in the tournament, except the people who split. Why do you care? If you and every in the tournament paid an entry fee and the top 2 players split, what difference does it make? How about if the top 2 players took their money, gave it all to the guy who placed second, and he burned it in front of everyones faces? Has ANYTHING changed?

Nope. It is the exact same situation. As ADHD said, splitting and intentional forfeitting are completely different. I implore BRC members and whoever else feels like being smart to judge a situation I found myself in often.

When I actually went to tournaments, me and my brother would almost always place first and second. Both times we agreed to split any prizes beforehand because we would win things like console games we could share. In fact multiple times I actually gave my prize to my brother coz he couldnt afford the things I could.

So tell me, is that splitting illegal? Nothing was kept secret from anyone. The next point then, is comparing splitting in the above scenario, to intentional forfeitting. I'll leave that one out for now.

I... I hope no one here is that deluded to actually think what we did would be 'illegal' by this new unity ruleset. I'll go on if people actually deem that illegal.

 

[stingers]

pirate ship? omg hell yeah

 

[san.]

(Pirate Ship = Japes ) > Norfair > PTAD for me.

Anyways, I think people have issues with the sandbagging during late bracket matches than the actual splitting by itself. It's just that splitting is most likely the main cause to that degenerate mentality.

I only split once because I was not feeling well, it was really late, and my region prevented another region from getting top 2 at a dual-region tourney. Oh, and another time since the whole power went out in the whole town while I was comfortably waiting in Grand Finals.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

I'd be so happy if it was Pirate Ship. Favourite stage and all.

 

[WindMajor]

Toon Link's stage and all.

 

[Flayl]

I don't like offscreen bombs.

 

[WindMajor]

They make a loud sound effect though.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Why did we drop Picto, when we should have been dropping Brinstar?

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I don't like offscreen bombs.

Loud sound effect and smoke trails give you some amount of warning still. Not to mention the King of Red Lions moving off screen before they can fire.

 

[Chuee]

Here's hoping its Pirate Ship.

This is how I know you're an ike main.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

This is how I know you're an ike main.

Hey, it's not just Ike mains saying that.

Technically, it's the stage with the most support for the last few pages. :D

 

[Jack Kieser]

Pirate Ship is a good stage to add, but only if the BBR-RC mandates that tournaments running the Unity Ruleset have to hack "I'm On a Boat" as it's only song if they want a sticky.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

ummm browny.... did you actually read my post? it had nothing to do with splitting. it was in response to someone saying even if some1 wins a tournament the money isn't there's until they get it in there hand, in which case i posted that earlier statement. it says nothing about splitting, it is defending those who earned their money and should be payed it no matter what and if they are jipped out of it then those who jipped them should get their ***** kicked. how did you even get a "split" arguement form reading that post anyways?

also.... pirate ship? isn't that stage hella broken and gay? im asking because i literally have not played on that stage since 08

 

[WindMajor]

No.

Rudder camping is pretty bad, and the only relatively intrusive hazard are the bombs that are super telegraphed.

 

[Raziek]

also.... pirate ship? isn't that stage hella broken and gay? im asking because i literally have not played on that stage since 08

The only issues with the stage are:

- The bombs, which are telegraphed, easy to avoid, and there is a safe zone (The mast)
- Water camping, which has yet to actually be proven a problem.
- Rudder camping, which is incredibly risky, apparently circumventable via hoop damage, affects only 8 characters, and can be easily and discretely banned if necessary.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

wats rudder camping? like obivously it's camping the rudder but like wats the whole deal that makes it good? who can do it?

also, don't sound that broken when you put it that way. of course like i said i haven't played there in years so im not one to judge it

 

[Raziek]

Put simply, it's the act of using a move that directly alters momentum (such as Toon Link's dair, or even Marth's counter) to pop yourself into the water next to the back rudder, eventually going underneath it.

If done correctly, your character will becoming trapped in the "swimming upwards" animation, and remain there as long as you stay in the correct position. If you fail you either slide under the boat and die, or you pop back up and are at the mercy of your opponent. Some characters are capable of combatting it using a projectile or attack.

Others can rudder camp themselves, and push their opponent into the ship. Around 8 are incapable of doing anything about it. For those who can't do anything about it, it's effectively perfect planking until the stage interferes.

Apparently going to the top of the mast can cause the camper to take hoop damage, but I have not tested this, and consider it unverified.

All said, it's a gimmick. It's difficult to do consistently due to the rocking of the boat, and the events (such as the Tornado and the rock crash), and doesn't really ever affect matches.

Edit: And, since the Unity ruleset has a LGL and a "No scrooging" rule, they'd almost certainly ban this tactic.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Um...there isn't a ban on scrooging...

 

[Judo777]

I still think the intentional forfeit rule needs to be reworded. It makes it sound like I can't forfeit if I get sick or something.

 

[C.J.]

/waits for someone to be "late" and lose the set in replacement for intentional forfeiting.

 

[Jack Kieser]

You know, all of these "ways to game the system" that people are posting aren't actually well-reasoned arguments against the Yellow / Red Card system. And I can prove it with two words:

Law Enforcement.

We have laws in this country, and entities exist to uphold and enforce those laws. Are the laws without loopholes? Of course not. And do people escape detection by the enforcement agencies tasked with upholding the laws (or do people escape punishment by acting just ambiguous enough so that courts aren't sure whether the law was broken)? Of course people do.

That does not mean we shouldn't have laws.

And that does NOT mean that this infraction system shouldn't be in place.

This system is to deter legitimate abuses of the tournament system for financial gain and / or to preserve the full integrity of the tournament system and what that system stands for, as well as strengthen the community though the creation and regulation of role models at the highest level of play (tangentially, of course). Yes, people will escape once in a blue moon and will sandbag just well enough to get away with it. And yes, once in a very long time, someone with a legitimate reason to forfeit may get caught under the banner of the rules. But, that's a calculated risk, and one the BBR-RC did not make lightly or without thought.

And, it's one that is wholly necessary.

 

[Raziek]

Um...there isn't a ban on scrooging...

My mistake. Could have sworn I saw that in Keitaro's ruleset, but I guess not.

Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Oh my god I ****ing love you Jack Kieser.

 

[Tesh]

You know, all of these "ways to game the system" that people are posting aren't actually well-reasoned arguments against the Yellow / Red Card system. And I can prove it with two words:

Law Enforcement.

We have laws in this country, and entities exist to uphold and enforce those laws. Are the laws without loopholes? Of course not. And do people escape detection by the enforcement agencies tasked with upholding the laws (or do people escape punishment by acting just ambiguous enough so that courts aren't sure whether the law was broken)? Of course people do.

That does not mean we shouldn't have laws.

And that does NOT mean that this infraction system shouldn't be in place.

This system is to deter legitimate abuses of the tournament system for financial gain and / or to preserve the full integrity of the tournament system and what that system stands for, as well as strengthen the community though the creation and regulation of role models at the highest level of play (tangentially, of course). Yes, people will escape once in a blue moon and will sandbag just well enough to get away with it. And yes, once in a very long time, someone with a legitimate reason to forfeit may get caught under the banner of the rules. But, that's a calculated risk, and one the BBR-RC did not make lightly or without thought.

And, it's one that is wholly necessary.

i find it sad that alot of people can't seem to understand this and will just complain about the rule not perfectly solving everything

 

[Reizilla]

It's not that the rule doesn't solve everything, it's that it's a bad rule. And that it's based pretty much entirely on word of mouth and what people think without any real evidence.

 

[ADHD]

The rules should actually be known by all TO's, instead of permitting the players to break them and then become angry after they find out of the rule's existence, don't you agree Jack?

I hate this ****.

Also, I would like to add that the only real casualty (dabuz) was not given any means of relief, because mew2king was punished for splitting, and NOT forfeiting/manipulating the bracket (I can dig up Alphazealot's specific post on this if you like). They are two completely different subjects.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Maharba, Pirate Ship is a perfectly reasonable stage.

Also if somebody rudder camps, I'm just going to let them be there for about a minute. If they decide to stay there for a full minute, I'm calling a TO over and claiming stalling. Otherwise it's a perfectly fine stage.

Oh, and I'm on a Boat is only one of many songs that should be mandatory. He's a Pirate should also be mandatory.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

+1 to Jack Keiser

Again, it isn't like we will see OMG THIS PERSON LOST WHEN THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE YELLOW CARRRDDDDDD

We will be examining every single claim, and coming to a decision then. We aren't throwing down ban hammers where they aren't necessary.

ADHD: It is also the fact that you guys have been notorious for splitting as well, so it isn't like there is no truth to the allegation. Keitaro did things wrong, but you guys still need to be punished for your excessive abuse of bracket manipulation AND splitting.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Oh, and I'm on a Boat is only one of many songs that should be mandatory. He's a Pirate should also be mandatory.

We're the Pirates That Don't Do Anything?

Also: I would have thought that after MLG ADHD and M2K would have realized that this community doesn't like splitting/bracket manipulation: regardless of if they "actually" did so or not at MLG

Spoiler

*coughtheydidcough*

, the out roar should have made that clear. >_> You want to keep going to big tournaments with large payouts, knowing that many of them are going to be following this ruleset now? Don't talk about splitting.

 

[Player-1]

I don't see why they're even complaining, they got off pretty easy IMO considering that worse things could have happened.

 

[Tesh]

Clearly they didn't learn anything from missing out on THOUSANDS of dollars for what they did at MLG. Its hard to believe they will behave better now for only hundreds.

 

[Dabuz]

I still think the intentional forfeit rule needs to be reworded. It makes it sound like I can't forfeit if I get sick or something.

Well, im pretty sure you can still forfeit without penalty if your feeling sick, you just have to forfeit the whole bracket

The rules should actually be known by all TO's, instead of permitting the players to break them and then become angry after they find out of the rule's existence, don't you agree Jack?

I hate this ****.

Also, I would like to add that the only real casualty (dabuz) was not given any means of relief, because mew2king was punished for splitting, and NOT forfeiting/manipulating the bracket (I can dig up Alphazealot's specific post on this if you like). They are two completely different subjects.

Well, what means of relief can i get? The money m2k won? nope because it was put into his hands or the TOs hands. Should i get an auto win on m2k if i see him in bracket? NO, that just isn't fair. There isn't much that can be done after the tournament that specifically makes it up to me besides m2k teaming with me at a a big tourney (if he really wants to show he is sorry)


On the subject of pirate ship, i wouldn't mind seeing it in tourneys to test it out, but i feel it won't become a CP in most regions because the bombs can be too random and are deceiving in where they appear to be going, the time when the boat is lifted into the air is just like PS2's wind transformation and it leads to dumb kills and frame traps, and finally, the little catapult near the left of the boat seems too random and its too powerful.[/COLOR]

 

[Tesh]

Dabuz, the catapult isn't random.... if you stand on it, it launches you, its that simple. You can just shield the bombs if you aren't sure where they are going, or jump and airdodge or grab the ledge or learn how things look on the stage. As for the wind.....if Ps2 made it into the stagelist despite that reasoning, why would 5 seconds of high gravity + 5 seconds of low gravity make a difference?