The Unity Ruleset: Discussion

[WindMajor]

Inactivity?

I don't like the sound of that tbh.

 

[Tesh]

You know AZ, I think once we ban Metaknight, people will realize I was right about Diddy Kong. All we really need to do is get rid of Diddy, Snake and Metaknight. Snake might be able to stay if people can master DDDs infinite and Falco has the pika and shiek matchups so he is fine. Diddy Kong however is only being held in check currently by Metaknight.

 

[BSP]

Maybe that would change if people could CP brinstar on him without fear of MK

I could see brinstar being one of Diddy's weaker stages, since it focuses on the air, but no one dares to try that in our metagame now because of MK.

 

[AlphaZealot]

If you actually main Diddy Kong you know that is not true. Diddy can be held in check by a lot of characters he has more than a few even matchups or slightly negative ones.

 

[Reizilla]

Only if you're bad.

 

[Count]

For the average diddy, Mk helps more than hurts. It's only the outstanding diddy kings that Mk holds back. To think of diddy being anywhere near Mk's dominance is laughable.

 

[Tesh]

AZ, I've seen MKs lose on Brinstar as well. There is a difference between a player issue and a character issue. HE HAS INFINTIES! FROM A FREAKIGN PROJECTILE

 

[Heartstring]

Only if you're bad.

there are a few, just obscure characters
like luigi XD typically, we have an amazing luigi in the uk (i wouldnt call it unfair to say possibly best in the world, but we got no solid comparison for that XD) to hold them all back for us XD

i dont think diddy will dominate as much as meta does, but neither deserve a ban still

 

[-Ran]

Spoilers: We were discussing the possibility of removing Brinstar. Esam was too against it, so he left without warning, even though there wasn't even a full discussion on it yet. What's worse is he's using that as a reason for leaving when he already posted a couple days ago that he was leaving anyway because he can't host anymore....

So two BBR-RC members left because they're not hosting anymore anyway. /shrug

This is depressing that he would misrepresent his reasoning during a very public meltdown.

 

[Reizilla]

orrrr, he was planning to leave eventually, but the atrocities back there made him leave NOW. Which is accurate to what he said.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Give everyone six bans after the first match. the loser can choose from the remaining seven stages. Banning will go a lot faster with more bans since you will have less stages to worry about

 

[BSP]

i dont think diddy will dominate as much as meta does, but neither deserve a ban still

http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/5167/unledjpf.png

That's not exactly the "healthy" road (+50% MK alone ). He's getting there if you don't think he is already. He takes the most money each week as well, so no one will be catching him.

 

[Heartstring]

http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/5167/unledjpf.png

That's not exactly the "healthy" road. He's getting there if you don't think he is already.

i see, thats fairly interesting data tbh

i think its a case of superblocks, a bit like meta and snake in the earlier areas of the metagame. if one goes, the other will absolutely dominate hard.
okay so mk dominates anyway. but i dunno, we dont have much of a meta problem here so i cant say really

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

Diddy Kong is incapable of dominating the scene if Metaknight was gone.

Back on topic b4 mods have another hissy fit.

 

[Bizkit047]

AZ, you are backwards. I don't think the people saying "If it isn't broken, don't ban it" are the ones in the wrong. I think it is the other way around. I would much rather have Distant Planet, Luigi's Mansion, Japes, Green Greens, Norfair, and PTAD legal than ban Brinstar or Rainbow Cruise.

You say that "It isn't enough" to convince the BRC? As if half of the people in there talk about anything. I'm sick of the inactivity in something that could've been so ****ing great, and it was thrown to waste. **** that.

Unsubscribing to this thread. Have fun keeping up Public Relations without me. ****ers.

We're not that inactive...especially not lately. You were in CA for like a week, and didn't post much on the threads while you were gone. The activity dies down when there is less to be discussed. Obviously when our ruleset was released and updated a couple times, there was less issues that needed attention than there were originally.

I don't see how you're so angry that the rest of those stages weren't added, but yet flipped a **** when Brinstar was brought up in a discussion.

Also, TC does just fine with public relations for the whole group.

 

[WindMajor]

Well now that the BRC is being put on blast, and they are all watching this thread


Can someone update the member list in the locked Unity Ruleset thread to include all the new members? I know Yink made it in, but I don't know who else.

 

[Bizkit047]

Can someone update the member list in the locked Unity Ruleset thread to include all the new members? I know Yink made it in, but I don't know who else.

AZ working on it I believe. Yink made it in, Za'gashi or whatever made it in (hasn't posted yet), Mike Haze been in, and we got a new member today as well. I think two other people are being looked into.

 

[WindMajor]

Sweet. Hopefully those few new members can at least put a bit more activity in there.

The whole inactivity bit is all that's worrying me atm.

 

[Heartstring]

AZ working on it I believe. Yink made it in, Za'gashi or whatever made it in (hasn't posted yet), Mike Haze been in, and we got a new member today as well. I think two other people are being looked into.

i didnt even realise they were doing applications for it lol

im honestly curious, is it a serious sin to have optional rulings included in the unity ruleset? i find it to be a nice middleground for certain stuff which would get a bit too heated

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Damn, ADHD with that burn.

Psyco, it isn't the fact that he used somebody other than MK. He used a secondary in ONLY ONE SET. He used MK every other set in that tournament, and he didn't in ONE SET to, idk, get his **** rode or something. That is what makes it intentional under-performance as opposed to just under-performance.

Oh, and guys, I'm not part of the BRC anymore. They were discussing something really ****ing stupid in my opnion, so I quit before that decision was made. I don't want to be part of something that the entire MW and pretty much every non-conservative will be upset about. So ****ing stupid.

IT'S ALL BOUT DAT JAPES, NORFAIR, DISTANT PLANET, GREEN GREENS, LUIGI'S MANSION, AND PICTOCHAT BABY

<3

Why is ESAM so mad? Is Brinstar good for pikachu or something?

Why was I so pissed when the german ruleset banned Brinstar as well? Why was I so angry when APEX didn't have Pokemon Stadium 2 (a fairly mediocre MK stage)?

It's a matter of principle. The idea that sometimes, the majority is not always right. The idea that certain intelligent, powerful people in the community would be willing to hold themselves to slightly higher intellectual standards than the average ******* when talking about nation-wide rulesets.

Banning Brinstar is ********. There's no good reason for it (inb4"people don't like it"), and if it goes, it'll go because our community is full of whiny little *****es. No other reason.

 

[Bizkit047]

Sweet. Hopefully those few new members can at least put a bit more activity in there.

The whole inactivity bit is all that's worrying me atm.

It's not as bad as you think. It's just that with all of us being so busy it's tough to get us all together to discuss things as quickly as some would hope, so it spans over days, sometimes weeks. For example...extra stage addition discussion sort of took a backseat to other stuff going on lately.

i didnt even realise they were doing applications for it lol

im honestly curious, is it a serious sin to have optional rulings included in the unity ruleset? i find it to be a nice middleground for certain stuff which would get a bit too heated

Yes, we've always accepted Applications, pretty sure it says that near the top of the Unity Ruleset. Requirement is to run one Unity Ruleset tourney.

As AZ said, it would defeat the purpose of it being a universal ruleset if things were optional, and turn it into a true recommended ruleset, which we don't want. I can see how some of the problems could be solved by this, but it would just create more. The idea is to get as many people to run the same ruleset as possible. Think of this: If MK were optionally banned in Unity, that means most probably would choose to ban, but not all. It would hurt regions that try to go compete in other regions that allow MK against the ones that don't.

 

[Heartstring]

It's not as bad as you think. It's just that with all of us being so busy it's tough to get us all together to discuss things as quickly as some would hope, so it spans over days, sometimes weeks. For example...extra stage addition discussion sort of took a backseat to other stuff going on lately.



Yes, we've always accepted Applications, pretty sure it says that near the top of the Unity Ruleset. Requirement is to run one Unity Ruleset tourney.

As AZ said, it would defeat the purpose of it being a universal ruleset if things were optional, and turn it into a true recommended ruleset, which we don't want. I can see how some of the problems could be solved by this, but it would just create more. The idea is to get as many people to run the same ruleset as possible. Think of this: If MK were optionally banned in Unity, that means most probably would choose to ban, but not all. It would hurt regions that try to go compete in other regions that allow MK against the ones that don't.

i'll be honest, i skipped straight to the ruleset, i want to read the important parts

well, things like character bans are a bit big for a unity ruleset, i meant more minor things that would be useful for optional stuff

for example, lets say california is riddled with MK (i dont know the character usage facts, so dont kill me on this). from this any TO's may want to not have brinstar on their stagelist in california, on the flipside, lets assume texas has no extremely good MK present. they would probably like to have brinstar on the list. its situations like that where minor options would be helpful
i know-for now- this isnt so much of a case in america, as all of america mains mk (or close enough to) but everywhere else is part of the community aswell, and although the unity ruleset may only be meant for america, its being received as if the entire world is wanted to use it

 

[Chuee]

Oh god ESAM lmfao.
I've never seen so many f***s and s***s in one post since the days where BPC used to call everyone who disagreed with him a scrub.
Oh, and BPC I can give you a good reason to ban brinstar.
It's easy to run away on brinstar.
There!

 

[Juushichi]

Oh, and BPC I can give you a good reason to ban brinstar.
It's easy to run away on brinstar.
There!

 

[Heartstring]

Oh god ESAM lmfao.
I've never seen so many f***s and s***s in one post since the days where BPC used to call everyone who disagreed with him a scrub.
Oh, and BPC I can give you a good reason to ban brinstar.
It's easy to run away on brinstar.
There!

its because BPC likes taking pictures of sleeping ike mains at dogusch smash...
really man, that wasnt cool

 

[Chuee]

So BPC likes taking pictures of sleeping men?
ooooh now I have something to use to counter his arguments!

 

[Bizkit047]

for example, lets say california is riddled with MK (i dont know the character usage facts, so dont kill me on this). from this any TO's may want to not have brinstar on their stagelist in california, on the flipside, lets assume texas has no extremely good MK present. they would probably like to have brinstar on the list. its situations like that where minor options would be helpful
i know-for now- this isnt so much of a case in america, as all of america mains mk (or close enough to) but everywhere else is part of the community aswell, and although the unity ruleset may only be meant for america, its being received as if the entire world is wanted to use it

Doesn't change the fact that making things optional mean it's not universal. Not everyone will be playing the same ruleset. Even if it's one extra stage, it's still not the same. And Unity ruleset is mainly for America, yes. Other countries are welcome to use it, though.

Oh god ESAM lmfao.
I've never seen so many f***s and s***s in one post since the days where BPC used to call everyone who disagreed with him a scrub.
Oh, and BPC I can give you a good reason to ban brinstar.
It's easy to run away on brinstar.
There!

The main arguments tend to be how ridiculous MK is there compared to any other stage, which with RC means that opponents are nearly forced to ban one or the other to avoid pocketnites. Personally, I don't see a problem with Brinstar, but I don't see how someone can say MK isn't a problem there...I find MK more managable on RC than Brinstar, so I'd ban Brinstar, but it still essentially sounds like a "hope you won game 1 or secondary MK" situation.

 

[Ussi]

Is there a set citeria to anything being banned?

 

[Heartstring]

So BPC likes taking pictures of sleeping men?
ooooh now I have something to use to counter his arguments!

Yeah, i woke up to find him pointing him camera at me, was not happy
althoug

Doesn't change the fact that making things optional mean it's not universal. Not everyone will be playing the same ruleset. Even if it's one extra stage, it's still not the same. And Unity ruleset is mainly for America, yes. Other countries are welcome to use it, though.

optional and universal arent total opposites. its just that different circumstances will requires ever so slightly different rulings
anyway, im just going to drop this i think

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

It seems people are not listening to me when I said knock off the spam.

Cut the trolling and spam, gloves are off on me being nice about it.

 

[BSP]

So BPC likes taking pictures of sleeping men?
ooooh now I have something to use to counter his arguments!

Best one so far lol

The main arguments tend to be how ridiculous MK is there compared to any other stage, which with RC means that opponents are nearly forced to ban one or the other to avoid pocketnites. Personally, I don't see a problem with Brinstar, but I don't see how someone can say MK isn't a problem there...I find MK more managable on RC than Brinstar, so I'd ban Brinstar, but it still essentially sounds like a "hope you won game 1 or secondary MK" situation.

If you ban 1, you might as well ban both. If we're avoiding pocketnites, they'd still get their win if they went some other character game 1, and then CP'd whichever one remained legal. (Like, if it's not in your character's best interest to insta ban the usual MK CP)

But seriously, the only reason we'd be banning Brinstar is because "MK is too good there/We don't like it." What happens when he finds another CP and it becomes "RC/Brinstar or X stage". Are we just going to keep banning because of MK?

 

[NO-IDea]

Doesn't change the fact that making things optional mean it's not universal. Not everyone will be playing the same ruleset. Even if it's one extra stage, it's still not the same. And Unity ruleset is mainly for America, yes. Other countries are welcome to use it, though.



The main arguments tend to be how ridiculous MK is there compared to any other stage, which with RC means that opponents are nearly forced to ban one or the other to avoid pocketnites. Personally, I don't see a problem with Brinstar, but I don't see how someone can say MK isn't a problem there...I find MK more managable on RC than Brinstar, so I'd ban Brinstar, but it still essentially sounds like a "hope you won game 1 or secondary MK" situation.

I dislike the idea of giving the majority what they want if they're wrong.

Quite frankly, I'm sure the majority of the community wants MK banned. If this ruleset is all about unity, then logically you should ban MK. You certainly can't make it optional.

I can see why ESAM would want to leave iif this is the kind of unity the BRC is moving towards.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Like I said, knock it off.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

No comment from the BRR-C about if you're trying trying to appease the majority, you would be banning MK, and thus as you're obviously not doing that, "appeasing the majority" doesn't work as a reason to ban Brinstar?

 

[Ussi]

I think BBR-RC should first make up some citeria for banning anything to base everything off :x

 

[-Ran]

I believe that the inclusion of Brinstar/RC has taught countless players how to use Meta Knight in a counter-pick capacity. Due to the effectiveness of the levels [and the synergy they have with MK], they eventually realized that MK was their best option as a character as they learned the character either to defend against the use of the stages, or to use them as methods to win match ups they couldn't before. I do not not feel that removing the stages at this point will alter Meta knight usage [or dominance] since the gateway drugs have already been consumed.

 

[Heartstring]

agreed with niddo/ussi

 

[Bizkit047]

Is there a set citeria to anything being banned?

Not really, just discussions that lead into voting. I feel as if we did have a set criteria, the stage list would either be far too liberal or far too conservative.

optional and universal arent total opposites. its just that different circumstances will requires ever so slightly different rulings
anyway, im just going to drop this i think

I'm going to be honest, it's just not going to happen. Don't forget, before Unity, most of us already ran rulesets that were very similar to Unity, maybe a stage or two difference, maybe a LGL or infintes rule difference. It would make Unity Ruleset virtually pointless to bring that back by letting each region's TOs decide which parts of the rules they want to follow.

But seriously, the only reason we'd be banning Brinstar is because "MK is too good there/We don't like it." What happens when he finds another CP and it becomes "RC/Brinstar or X stage". Are we just going to keep banning because of MK?

Which is why it's so controversial. Delfino could be argued his 3rd best stage, but I don't find it nearly as difficult as RC/Brinstar vs MK. Either way, it'll be interesting to see how Ktar6 goes with Brinstar banned, which is what I'm waiting on before I start throwing out opinions.

 

[Chuee]

I'd argue that other characters can run away on RC and Brinstar too, but MK just takes it to an extreme.
Watching some of the videos of top MKs running the timer on that stage is ridiculous.

 

[Ussi]

People are switching MK even in MMs