The Unity Ruleset: Discussion

[Reizilla]

That's completely wrong, nidtendo. It was a Phase tourney and it wasn't that big.

 

[John12346]

Then have the mods lock the thread and just have the poll open >.>

thisthisthisthisthis

Give 1 month for both sides to create arguments
Open thread
Insert arguments
Lock thread
Allow 2 weeks for arguments to be advertised and read thoroughly(in the case of on-the-fence parties)
Insert poll(with the voter filter that I keep reminding you all about)
???
PROFIT!!!

How much damage could an arrangement like this possibly cause? Little to none, I'd bet...

 

[Bizkit047]

I think he meant one of the really early MK banned tourneys Xyro ran. As I said, naturally that would be hype. Repeatedly doing it, however, probably wouldn't change that much IMO.

 

[Deleted member]

Bizkit, I edited in more to my previous post.

 

[Player-1]

I'd really like to see recent results of an NJ/NY MK banned tournament as well as turn out.

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

You remove MK, who is many peoples mains

People use him for different reasons.

I could use him to convince people that he needs to leave.

I could use him cause he's the best character and want money.

I could use him if I sucked at the game and want things to be easier. In that case, "Do not pray for easier lives. Pray to be stronger men." - JFK

If anyone uses him for those reasons I want to see a constructive argument against MK's removal that cannot be ripped apart.

 

[Allin]

I know im not a usual, (Not even a brawl player actually just a hopeful future T.O.), but why don't some T.O.'s from the BBRC run Test Events? I don't see what wrong with Test Unity Sets. I feel like they would allow you to experiment alittle more and get much more accurate data on the things you need. (Obviously the MK ban one, stage bans, stage unbans, etc)

Just something to ponder.

 

[Bizkit047]

I know im not a usual, (Not even a brawl player actually just a hopeful future T.O.), but why don't some T.O.'s from the BBRC run Test Events? I don't see what wrong with Test Unity Sets. I feel like they would allow you to experiment alittle more and get much more accurate data on the things you need. (Obviously the MK ban one, stage bans, stage unbans, etc)

Just something to ponder.

Interesting. Believe it or not, I brought up this exact similar idea in the BBR-RC. I don't want to go into too much detail yet, but it seems as if everyone is for the idea I proposed, so we just need to get it sorted out on how to approach it. It would help solve the problem of situations such as not having tourneys to go off of with controversial stages, since they're banned.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I think he meant one of the really early MK banned tourneys Xyro ran. As I said, naturally that would be hype. Repeatedly doing it, however, probably wouldn't change that much IMO.

Correct, it was Xyro's tournaments. Back when he was doing "every second tournament is MK banned", or w/e it was. From what I remember, first MK banned tournament was his biggest turnout ever, and the other ones kept higher numbers.

 

[-Ran]

I usually use my Novice bracket events as a test bed for different rules/procedures. For Xyro, the MK banned tournaments did bring in larger numbers. Also, UTD Zac is now running MK banned events in Dallas and is seeing a nice turn out and response from the community which had been notoriously MK centralized.

 

[Ussi]

I lol'd at the banning MK for low tier mains.

How about the high and mid tier mains who want MK gone?



also Niddo, for booing during G2 GF, look for a genesis 2 highlight video, when they showed brawl GF, it was a MK ditto on brinstar. You'll find it in the locked thread about Ally cheating

 

[Tesh]

Banning MK won't make most MK mains quit immediately. Most of them will stick around and try to prove that they can still do well without him. After a few tournaments, they will quit though.

 

[Life]

thisthisthisthisthis

Give 1 month for both sides to create arguments
Open thread
Insert arguments
Lock thread
Allow 2 weeks for arguments to be advertised and read thoroughly(in the case of on-the-fence parties)
Insert poll(with the voter filter that I keep reminding you all about)
???
PROFIT!!!

How much damage could an arrangement like this possibly cause? Little to none, I'd bet...

This. May I claim credit for it, actually?

 

[Bizkit047]

I lol'd at the banning MK for low tier mains.

How about the high and mid tier mains who want MK gone?

Yea yea, extreme example. All it says IMO is that high tiers will just win instead of mostly MK. Pretty sure most mid tiers will still get curb stomped by most high tiers.

I usually use my Novice bracket events as a test bed for different rules/procedures. For Xyro, the MK banned tournaments did bring in larger numbers. Also, UTD Zac is now running MK banned events in Dallas and is seeing a nice turn out and response from the community which had been notoriously MK centralized.

Novice brackets/side events are a nice little way to test rules/stages/etc, however, I feel as if it won't really matter, because top level play will be missing, which is most important for these things. That's why a full tourney should be dedicated to these rule testings. The incentive to try really hard or play super gay isn't as meaningful in a novice or ammy bracket compared to winning $200+ in a regular tourney.

 

[-Ran]

We can't really speculate. The only evidence that we have speaks that MK mains will show up to MK banned events and participate. We don't know how long they'd stay. Nor can we place a number on individuals that main Meta Knight out of the necessity represented in the current metagame.

 

[John12346]

This. May I claim credit for it, actually?

Yeah, the basic plan was Inferiority's idea, I just polished it up some with the cooperation of some other people.

Seriously, though, what is the precedent against this idea? It gives us a way to not only get an accurate estimation of people who are in favor of/against the ban, but also, and more importantly, it allows us to present our arguments without any flaming/trolling nonsense occurring...

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

We can't really speculate. The only evidence that we have speaks that MK mains will show up to MK banned events and participate. We don't know how long they'd stay. Nor can we place a number on individuals that main Meta Knight out of the necessity represented in the current metagame.

inb4tempbanproposals

 

[Ussi]

Pro-ban is more vocal.

 

[Tesh]

Thats because anti-ban is nothing but cowards hiding behind a bat.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Yea yea, extreme example. All it says IMO is that high tiers will just win instead of mostly MK. Pretty sure most mid tiers will still get curb stomped by most high tiers.

idk, you get characters like Ike, Peach, and Toon Link who's hardest MU is MK, and then suddenly that MU is gone. I think a good number of mid tiers could have a stronger showing in that situation.

Novice brackets/side events are a nice little way to test rules/stages/etc, however, I feel as if it won't really matter, because top level play will be missing, which is most important for these things. That's why a full tourney should be dedicated to these rule testings. The incentive to try really hard or play super gay isn't as meaningful in a novice or ammy bracket compared to winning $200+ in a regular tourney.

Winner of the novice/side event tournaments gets a free entry into the next tournament/bye if the brackets require one?

@Ussi: Thanks.

@Bizkit: I know it's speculation based on both old and very new data, but currently it would appear that banning MK would not have a negative impact on tournaments. From what we do have, it would appear that MK ban tournaments would be just as active as normal, if not slightly more active.

 

[John12346]

Then have the mods lock the thread and just have the poll open >.>

thisthisthisthisthis

Give 1 month for both sides to create arguments
Open thread
Insert arguments
Lock thread
Allow 2 weeks for arguments to be advertised and read thoroughly(in the case of on-the-fence parties)
Insert poll(with the voter filter that I keep reminding you all about)
???
PROFIT!!!

How much damage could an arrangement like this possibly cause? Little to none, I'd bet...

This. May I claim credit for it, actually?

Yeah, the basic plan was Inferiority's idea, I just polished it up some with the cooperation of some other people.

Seriously, though, what is the precedent against this idea? It gives us a way to not only get an accurate estimation of people who are in favor of/against the ban, but also, and more importantly, it allows us to present our arguments without any flaming/trolling nonsense occurring...

Sorry if this seems a bit rude, but I'd like to just reiterate this for the next page. What is fundamentally wrong about this idea?

It truly does seem like a plan that meets no real oppression or issues during the entire execution...

 

[Life]

ATTN: BBR-RC MEMBERS AND/OR STAFF
(wow, I actually used the full acronym, must be important)

Read John's post above mine.

Spoiler

never underestimate the power of size tags

 

[Deleted member]

I added to that as well, John.

 

[vVv Rapture]

I vote for John's post. Go read that, people.

Because once MK is banned, people will understand they've made a mistake...

vVv Rapture's Game & Watch will be on the loose.

 

[Ussi]

I'd say a month is not what we need. We need like 1 week to put together all the argument points we already have together.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

*votes for John's/Inferiority's/Auspher's plan*

 

[Allin]

Interesting. Believe it or not, I brought up this exact similar idea in the BBR-RC. I don't want to go into too much detail yet, but it seems as if everyone is for the idea I proposed, so we just need to get it sorted out on how to approach it. It would help solve the problem of situations such as not having tourneys to go off of with controversial stages, since they're banned.

Great minds think alike I suppose. It seems like it would be a good idea and would allow you to back up your claims to the community, rather than just seemingly basing everything on theory.

Another Idea, on the MK ban pro,anti, why not do a mass T.O. poll using the road to Apex. When every player that goes to one of these has to pay the venue fee they also will be required fill out a ballot.saying for or against and that will give you an accurate view on where the REAL community stands toward the MK ban before the next big international tournament.

 

[Bizkit047]

I'm completely for that idea, but it isn't up to someone like me to do anything about it. Contact AZ about it honestly, he has actual pull on this site.

However, I think it'd be best to wait until MK banned test tourneys are run if my idea goes through, so don't rush it IMO. Not like Smash 4 is coming out anytime soon (2+ years).

I vote for John's post. Go read that, people.

Because once MK is banned, people will understand they've made a mistake...

vVv Rapture's Game & Watch will be on the loose.

yo but...G&W gets bodied by Snake harder than MK.

 

[vVv Rapture]

I'm completely for that idea, but it isn't up to someone like me to do anything about it. Contact AZ about it honestly, he has actual pull on this site.

However, I think it'd be best to wait until MK banned test tourneys are run if my idea goes through, so don't rush it IMO. Not like Smash 4 is coming out anytime soon (2+ years).



yo but...G&W gets bodied by Snake harder than MK.

I'll hit up AZ, he's my boy.

And **** you, that's why I moved out of New England. xD

 

[ADHD]

Metaknight.
-best onstage game
-best offstage game
-best air frame traps
-frame 2 aerial
-necessary to win doubles
-worst matchup is 60-40 in his favor
-best on every stage
-best counterpicks
-every button is a recovery move
-best time out game
-best ledge game
-dumb forward roll
-moves cannot be clashed with
-b button alone makes matchups unviable
-impossible to gimp (this defies smash)

Only con is that he doesn't have a projectile and has REASONABLE aerial mobility and an average standing grab range/backwards roll.


Now, let's compare Marth's dolphin smash to Metaknight's shuttle loop.

Dolphin Slash-has a single hit with good knockback and invincibility, then several seconds of lag in which Falco can hit him with an fsmash.

Shuttle Loop-has a single hit with good knockback and invincibility, can be followed up with another invincible move that clashes with almost everything in the game and kills, can be canceled into a lagless landing, can continue to glide to escape punishment, or can immediately be canceled to grab the ledge. Not to mention it kills offstage at ******** percentages because you attempted to avoid that frame 2 spammable aerial.

 

[-Ran]

Smash = King of the Hill game.
MK = Ignores the entire statement, except 'King.'

 

[John12346]

I've already contacted AZ about this entire ordeal, so if you want to show support for our plan, say so now!

This is our chance!

 

[Tesh]

The MK ban discussion has flooded into 90% of the active topics in this sub forum. Preventing an MK ban poll now is pointless as all the flaming, trolling and whining is already EVERYWHERE.

I do have an easily enforceable rule to balance him though. Just remove his special buttons. It makes planking beatable, scrooging is limited, his gimp game isn't as strong, no more 0-death combos and he is gimpable.

 

[ADHD]

He should be banned at this point in time because seriously, his metagame is only about half-way done.

 

[vVv Rapture]

And if MK gets unbanned...

vVv Rapture's Mr. Game & Watch.

Watch the **** out.

 

[Life]

So can we get a list of names behind the plan? Well, it needs a good name first... The Silent Poll perhaps? Since it can gauge pro-ban's strength without having to revoke the MK discussion rule.

List of names behind Silent Poll Plan:
1. InferiorityComplex
2. John12346
3. Auspher
4. vVv Rapture
5. Niddo
6. Bizkit
7. Ussi
8. M@V
9. ADHD
10. ChKn
11. Allin
12. Player-1
13. BSP
Didn't add those of you who expressed proban sentiment but didn't mention our post specifically.

Anyone else in favor, speak now or forever momentarily hold your peace! Alternatively, if I added you in error (like Bizkit) I'll remove you, too.

EDIT: That's ten people in like three minutes. Impressive?

 

[Bizkit047]

Hey I said I was for the idea, not that I want it to happen like...today. I said wait IMO.

 

[M@v]

I'm down for a vote.

And I fully agree with ADHD's post. Everything about mk is good, but his shuttle loop is probably his best move, and probably the best move in the game.

I also go mainly mk now. Why risk a bad mu when you can start with mk? I pretty much only not go mk when I know someone's bad vs another one of my characters, or my mk got completely shut down because the other guys that good.

 

[Ussi]

I'm for the poll.

You also forgot shuttle nets early gimp kills

 

[ADHD]

Yeah sure.