The new top tier?

[SDC]

*sigh* 9-7=2

just sayin

 

[Mike G]

Smash kids these days.

pro tip for this thread: Ignore option is your friend. =D

 

[`Jammin' Jobus]

virus blue mage i kind of actually appreciate that you're keeping it up

maybe one day you will actually be a great debater, ruling melee discussion with an iron fist
i've seen a good amount of improvement, actually
now as soon as you get your facts straight (it takes time) you'll maybe be a great poster even

hahaha. wow. well put

 

[Blatt Blvd]

ignore this post

 

[Virusbluemage]

virus blue mage i kind of actually appreciate that you're keeping it up

maybe one day you will actually be a great debater, ruling melee discussion with an iron fist
i've seen a good amount of improvement, actually
now as soon as you get your facts straight (it takes time) you'll maybe be a great poster even

Go away.

When did I ever say he was just as good? I said he was different. I'll bet you've never even seen Taj's marth lol. And if he puts the time into it, and plays his best, Taj's marth (and mew2 by the way) can go toe to toe with any of the great players. I'm not going to say "hez just az good" But I will say that when he plays in top form he more then holds his own against the best.

You said that it was just my opinion that he was worse, therefore implying that you believe Taj was either equal or better than they were. And Taj is a good player but C'mon, he got 33rd place at Genesis. He can't go toe to toe with the greats if that's the best he can do.

 

[Strong Badam]

taj used marth a lot.....

 

[SDC]

And Taj is a good player but C'mon, he got 33rd place at Genesis. He can't go toe to toe with the greats if that's the best he can do.

So wait, if somebody ****s up and finishes below their talent that automatically makes them not as good? SilentSpectre finished 25th, does that make him bad?
Just because somebody finishes lower then expected for one tournament that automatically makes them unable to compete at the highest level? When Tom Brady doesn't make the playoffs that makes him any less of a QB? You can't win em all lol, its part of competing, its, you know, REALITY.

 

[NES n00b]

You don't understand sean...this is GENESIS. The only tournament results that matter ever in the history of smash bros.

 

[tubes]

Also Darkrain > SS all dai, erry dai.

 

[strawhats]

You don't understand sean...this is GENESIS. The only tournament results that matter ever in the history of smash bros.

Until Pound 4 that is

 

[Strong Badam]

So wait, if somebody ****s up and finishes below their talent that automatically makes them not as good? SilentSpectre finished 25th, does that make him bad?

ummm 25th at a tournament with nearly 300 people in it isn't bad at all. but ss is/was overrated and his result shows it; if he cares enough to prove otherwise he'll go to pound 4, or if he's too silent to travel OoS he can just wait until genesis 2 or something.

 

[SDC]

ummm 25th at a tournament with nearly 300 people in it isn't bad at all. but ss is/was overrated and his result shows it; if he cares enough to prove otherwise he'll go to pound 4, or if he's too silent to travel OoS he can just wait until genesis 2 or something.

Of course its not. 33 out of 290 isn't bad at all either. It wasn't as high as expected, but **** happens. It's reality, you don't always finish as well as you are expected to. SS isn't overrated, he just, ****ed up. He had a bad match against Falcon's worst matchup: sheik. **** happens
If SOME PEOPLE can't realize that, then that's their problem.

 

[Skler]

I didn't retire ****it! I just couldn't make it to nationals over the summer.

I might be making it to RoM, and since it's outside of NE I'll do 100000x better than I usually do at tournaments.

Some low tiers aren't viable at all (Pichu, Kirby, people who can get camped way too easily). I feel like Link is a semi-exception to this, I'll have a coherent reason as to WHY later. I will say he has the tools to deal with every character's approach (except Marth) and, while campable, can usually sneak some attacks through camps. Link just needs to make far fewer mistakes than high tiers.

I sound like one of those psycho "tires don exits" people don't I? ****.

 

[JesiahTEG]

For instance, I think mastering pikachu's up-b for offensive purposes could have some devastating results.

What do you guys think?

Holy jesus, I never thought I'd see anyone say something like that.

 

[NES n00b]

I didn't retire ****it! I just couldn't make it to nationals over the summer.

I might be making it to RoM, and since it's outside of NE I'll do 100000x better than I usually do at tournaments.

Some low tiers aren't viable at all (Pichu, Kirby, people who can get camped way too easily). I feel like Link is a semi-exception to this, I'll have a coherent reason as to WHY later. I will say he has the tools to deal with every character's approach (except Marth) and, while campable, can usually sneak some attacks through camps. Link just needs to make far fewer mistakes than high tiers.

I sound like one of those psycho "tires don exits" people don't I? ****.

Skler, stop lying to yourself. You know every time you see someone pick Sheik or Fox you just feel the depression set in.

 

[LoganW]

Melee is constantly changing when new things are discovered, so i have one question: what character do you think has the most potential to become top tier?

For instance, I think mastering pikachu's up-b for offensive purposes could have some devastating results.

What do you guys think?

LOL Watch the AXE effect. This guy was right

 

[ru5514n]

Melee is constantly changing when new things are discovered, so i have one question: what character do you think has the most potential to become top tier?

For instance, I think mastering pikachu's up-b for offensive purposes could have some devastating results.

What do you guys think?

Well, how much is there left to be discovered, really? I mean sure, we'll find some minor improvements for a character now and then, but I doubt there is any major discoveries left in Melee.

As for any new viable character, the most probable choice to me seems to be Doc, because pills control the stage, he's a decent edgeguarder, has no problem killing, can CG some of the cast, and has decent wavedashes.

 

[keeper]

I have seen Doc **** me. The guy above me speaks truth.

Vulcan, you know exactly what I'm talking about.

 

[SDC]

Doc also has some of the gayest hitboxes I've ever seen. Just sayin

 

[Blatt Blvd]

melee has hit circles.

 

[Marie Antoinette]

Replace Peach with Falco, please. Actually, I'd alter the list quite a bit. Jiggly should have leaped forward a bit, he's getting to a point of being god-like. Contemporary Melee is actually so much different than that of 2 years ago. Keeps getting better.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Go away.

this has to be the best argument here.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

J-puff should above falcon but that's it. And Have you ever fought a good falco? Their really good.

But yeah peach is as high as she will ever go. She is way to slow to move up and getting waveshined and camped really easily it's a good trait. marth is too but not as bad and his range is to good. Some of the most common people counter her.

Maybe if the ice climbers get as good with their tech skill as fox players to fox they would rise a lot and even then it's a big if

 

[Blatt Blvd]

. . . .

wait, whos gonna believe an insane crazy guy?

 

[AprilShaw]

I really don't think it's unrealistic for a low tier main to place top 10 in a national tournament. If Kage and Hugs can do it then why can't someone else do it using a slightly worse/under develop character? It just takes talent and hard work which unfortunately is something hard to find in someone willing to main a low/bottom tier character. It's too bad Skler retired, he has massive potential and his rate of improvement was amazing.

First, Ganon and Samus aren't low tiers. Second, Kage got 17th at Genesis if that's what you're talking about and I doubt HugS would have gotten top 10 even if he'd still been playing the whole time leading up to it. Samus as a character has a lot of weaknesses.

Also, HugS is a great player but most of his game is just spacing and timing. Watch his match against Waffles on Pokemon Stadium, it's pretty hilarious, he practically only uses jabs, ftilts, and nairs lmao.

Go away.



You said that it was just my opinion that he was worse, therefore implying that you believe Taj was either equal or better than they were. And Taj is a good player but C'mon, he got 33rd place at Genesis. He can't go toe to toe with the greats if that's the best he can do.

33rd at Genesis means he placed among some very good players. Who are you to be criticizing that? I still wanna know how good Taj would have been if he had never played Mewtwo. Nothing against Mewtwo but dedicating so much time to a character that can't keep up with the game really takes away from you competitively I think. So while I wouldn't want him to not play Mewtwo, I just have to wonder if he'd be better/how much better he'd be.

Anyways, you need to stop insulting some great low/mid tier players who do develop the metagames. My point before was that they just don't develop the metagame as fast, which makes sense. The characters are inherently limited in what they can do so it takes a lot more innovation to get around simple things that Fox/Falco can shine out of, Marth/Sheik can F-air out of, etc. But if you go through and watch the videos of those low tier players, you'll see that they all play very differently. Also Pakman's been pretty good for awhile <.<

Smash kids these days.

pro tip for this thread: Ignore option is your friend. =D

Hey :D arguing with people like this guy is better than sitting talking about nothing, lol.

 

[Proverbs]

I really didn't want to say this because I don't like being offensive, but Virus, this calls for it:

Don't critique pros unless you can beat them. You talk about how Taj hasn't added anything to Marth's metagame or anything like that. Tell me, what have you contributed to any character's metagame or to Melee at all? You're critiquing Taj of all people for not contributing to Marth's metagame and completely ignoring what he's done for Mewtwo's. This is absolutely ridiculous. Have you even met any of these people or played any of them? Or been to even one tournament?

Sorry man, but you make a ton of crazy claims for a person with absolutely no credibility. You've given us no reason to respect your opinion or listen to it at all. Instead of arguing with us, why don't you go and work on a character and really contribute something as opposed to pointing fingers at GOOD players who have contributed to the growing metagames? It's easy to critique from your armchair, but I'd like to see you practice what you preach.

Again, I wish I didn't have to do that, but really, this is ridiculous.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

*sigh*'

Oh virus, what a funny little man you are.

 

[Taj278]

I'm retired... Why are people throwing my name around?

First, I lost to two Falcons at Genesis... I have a Falcon problem if you haven't seen that onevideo already. I'm an old player, most of my credentials are from 2006-2007, not 2008-2009 when I only went to like two tournaments. I placed 5th at FCD 7th and Pound 2, 12th at OC3 because I forfeited to Wobbles, then I pretty much "retired" and played WoW.

If you want to have a list of pros I've beaten in and out of tournament, let me know.

What have I done to Marth's metagame? Well... that's a tough one, because my Marth was first recorded at Phoenix Graveyard against King, then AZOne shortly after that. I've been using Marth for a long time though. I never read/posted on the Marth forum, I never uploaded any combo vids or anything on Marth, the only contributions I've made in regards to Marth's metagame would probably be with people I've played directly.

@CABC- Had I not played Mewtwo, and instead made a Marth combo video, or a Fox video, I would probably still be about the same in overall skill. I would only hope there would have been less misconceptions of my skill level with other characters.

There is a slight possibility I'll appear at Pound 4, but no promises. :D Thank you guys for the praise and support.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

All I know is Taj just made more hype for m2 players for going to pound4. But proverbs is 100% right you can't really put people's skill on trail if you can't beat them or worse haven't even played them.

I was bashed to no bash and still being bashed on youtube for putting up my idea's on pichu the only thing they can think of bashing is I noticed you can hit people from under battlefield with pichu's up-air.

I heard what's the point? To stop them from punishing you for jumping on.

Well they can just dair you when your under the stage. Um people normally don't dair people who are hanging on the edge trying to get back up and if they think you are you can mix it up.

You suck. What's your reasoning behind that?


I heard all this for coming up with a way on how to safely get back on the stage as pichu. And I gave a much nicer way to say it.

Video were they bash me, the editing is terrible but, there are some ideas that are somewhat useful and the up-B thing works I've used it in real matches vs good people.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mt6tshPRJIY

 

[HugS™]

First, Ganon and Samus aren't low tiers. Second, Kage got 17th at Genesis if that's what you're talking about and I doubt HugS would have gotten top 10 even if he'd still been playing the whole time leading up to it. Samus as a character has a lot of weaknesses.

Top 10? Why would you doubt it? Because of Samus?
I've beaten almost every single player there is to beat. Why would this be any different, especially if I remained in shape?

Also, HugS is a great player but most of his game is just spacing and timing. Watch his match against Waffles on Pokemon Stadium, it's pretty hilarious, he practically only uses jabs, ftilts, and nairs lmao.

My game is "just spacing and timing"? You say it as if there's something wrong with that.
My game isn't only about that. I just happen to excel at spacing and timing.

It sounds like you really don't know what you're talking about.

 

[unknown522]

holy crap, hugS posted

 

[AXE 09]

tell 'em like it is, hugS and Taj!

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

hugo invented today's level of spacing, IMO

 

[Virusbluemage]

So wait, if somebody ****s up and finishes below their talent that automatically makes them not as good? SilentSpectre finished 25th, does that make him bad?
Just because somebody finishes lower then expected for one tournament that automatically makes them unable to compete at the highest level? When Tom Brady doesn't make the playoffs that makes him any less of a QB? You can't win em all lol, its part of competing, its, you know, REALITY.

It's not just Genesis, for almost 2 years Taj has consitently showed us that he can't get top 10 at a national tournament. I'm in no way calling hima bad player, but to say he's great is an overstatement(it also depends on how you ''define'' great. I'm using ''great'' as someone who is able to get top 10 at major/national tournaments)

I didn't retire ****it! I just couldn't make it to nationals over the summer.

I might be making it to RoM, and since it's outside of NE I'll do 100000x better than I usually do at tournaments.

I doubt you'll make it to rom2. And even though I'm a fan of yours and I'm routing for you; you haven't been to the past 2 national tournaments. You're out of major tourney practice; so if you came I don't think you could place particularly well.

 

[lordvaati]

All I know is Taj just made more hype for m2 players for going to pound4. But proverbs is 100% right you can't really put people's skill on trail if you can't beat them or worse haven't even played them.

I was bashed to no bash and still being bashed on youtube for putting up my idea's on pichu the only thing they can think of bashing is I noticed you can hit people from under battlefield with pichu's up-air.

I heard what's the point? To stop them from punishing you for jumping on.

Well they can just dair you when your under the stage. Um people normally don't dair people who are hanging on the edge trying to get back up and if they think you are you can mix it up.

You suck. What's your reasoning behind that?


I heard all this for coming up with a way on how to safely get back on the stage as pichu. And I gave a much nicer way to say it.

Video were they bash me, the editing is terrible but, there are some ideas that are somewhat useful and the up-B thing works I've used it in real matches vs good people.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mt6tshPRJIY

OK, so he insulted you for making a Pichu AT vid, when other people can make brawl ganondorf vids and Dan Hibiki combo vids with no complaints?

wow, that clitoriss guy is an ***hole.

 

[ZoSo]

I doubt you'll make it to rom2. And even though I'm a fan of yours and I'm routing for you; you haven't been to the past 2 national tournaments. You're out of major tourney practice; so if you came I don't think you could place particularly well.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

I declare the virus guy dumb jerk of the day will anyone 2nd that?

 

[Virusbluemage]

First, Ganon and Samus aren't low tiers. Second, Kage got 17th at Genesis if that's what you're talking about and I doubt HugS would have gotten top 10 even if he'd still been playing the whole time leading up to it. Samus as a character has a lot of weaknesses.

Also, HugS is a great player but most of his game is just spacing and timing. Watch his match against Waffles on Pokemon Stadium, it's pretty hilarious, he practically only uses jabs, ftilts, and nairs lmao.

Kage got 5th at rom. Did you not know this? Don't argue with me if you don't know your facts. I said in my previous posts that if mid-tiers can get top 10 then low tiers can to. You believing hugs couldn't get top 10 is just stupid. Hugs placed top 10 at the last two national tournametns he attended before he retired, there is no logic to your belief that he couldn't keep it up.

Hugs played that way against Waffles because waffles is a defensive player. If you want to seey Hugs use mind games, combos, tech skill, ect. Then watch his matches against Ka-Master, Silent Spectre and Zhu from UCLA V.

33rd at Genesis means he placed among some very good players. Who are you to be criticizing that? I still wanna know how good Taj would have been if he had never played Mewtwo. Nothing against Mewtwo but dedicating so much time to a character that can't keep up with the game really takes away from you competitively I think. So while I wouldn't want him to not play Mewtwo, I just have to wonder if he'd be better/how much better he'd be.

Anyways, you need to stop insulting some great low/mid tier players who do develop the metagames. My point before was that they just don't develop the metagame as fast, which makes sense. The characters are inherently limited in what they can do so it takes a lot more innovation to get around simple things that Fox/Falco can shine out of, Marth/Sheik can F-air out of, etc. But if you go through and watch the videos of those low tier players, you'll see that they all play very differently. Also Pakman's been pretty good for awhile <.<

If Taj didn't play mewtwo then he wouldn't have been a much better player. Taj himself has admitted this. You can call someone who got 33rd place at a tournament ''very good''(if even that much), but it's not enough to call them ''great'' which was my point from the begining.

I don't remember ever insulting anyone who has been advancing the metagame of any low/mid tier player. I'm very greatful to all of them. My point is that a lot of these new mid/low tier mains, aren't as good as the old ones and we need the old ones back. Pakman got like 60th something place at Genesis. You're using the word ''good'' far far too loosely.

 

[NES n00b]

Why does this have to be a particular day? It could be year at least.

 

[Nø Ca$h]

u know y most ppl dont play bad characters? BECAUSE THEY SUCK.

higher tiered ppl just have SOO many more options. link is iight, but his OoS options bring him down. ALL LT chars just dont have enough options to compete. get over it.