The new top tier?

[The Irish Mafia]

Well I'm gonna play some more falco now

 

['V']

Fox, Falco, then Marth...

 

[SDC]

M2k is right, jiggz should be higher up, I've said this for a while now.

However, higher up then the current top tiers? Do fox, falco, marth, or sheik move down to make room for jiggz? Do marth, fox, or marth move down for falco? I don't think so, right now we should atleast wait for pound 4 results.

I do however think that jiggz should be above CF and Peach on the tier list: she should be at the top of high tier.

 

[TheManaLord]

falco jiggs fox sheik marth peach cf ic ganon doc

i said it f jiggs m2k is so right

 

[MarkLoo]

Falco does not get gimped unless you're stupid (see Ally's Snake in Brawl), and combos marth guaranteed 0-55 with GOOD DI on the initial shine no matter what. Just waveshine the first shine then full jump over Marth and make it inescapable that you Fast fall Dair him, then do either another shine or some up tilt combo.

why don't you try playing these characters first. falco gets gimped like it's nobody's business. you of all people should know that. what good falco player have you been unable to gimp except mango? falco in melee isnt even comparable to snake in brawl. also shine dair does not combo at 0%.

 

[Figgz]

I would say I agree with M2K, but then I'd get a lot of hate for being a kiss-up.

Anyway, the only thing I don't agree with from his quick little list is the placeme-Wait, I agree with the placement of Falcon. I do think that the ICs should be used more/used better (if possible) than they are. I'd like to see a consistent IC player get first a lot that isn't Chu Dat (Wobbles wobbling doesn't count imo >_>). Fly Amanita is good, but I don't know that he places top 3 in his region consistently.

The only real change I'd make is to move Marth to the third spot. He's too good.

Note: I hate Falco.

huh, im hungry

 

[otg]

Falco can outcamp every character, does not get gimped unless you're stupid (see Ally's Snake in Brawl), and combos marth guaranteed 0-55 with GOOD DI on the initial shine no matter what. Just waveshine the first shine then full jump over Marth and make it inescapable that you Fast fall Dair him, then do either another shine or some up tilt combo. Falco does not lose to Marth it's even at WORST if not Falco's advantage at the highest level of play. I think Falco goes even at worst with every char and is better than Fox in singles slightly, although Fox is better overall because of teams being a factor. IDC what the rest of you think I'm going to say what I think is true.

I agree with most of this, Falco has the best matchups vs. the elite 4, BUT he has a hard time vs. Jiggs/Peach that I don't think can be ignored. Besides that, the rest of this thread has been such fail its almost painful to watch. If I was a mod I would lock this **** so fast.

 

[Archangel]

I think Jiggs should at the very least be the Ruler of High tier. So yeah I side with M2K. Playing Falco at the highest level is more difficult then people think because you can't make a mistake. If you do you are doomsdayed my friend. Falco's recovery is butt crack. Those that don't make technical mistakes quickly rise to the top. It takes dedication to get that good though. Falco would have my stamp as the best player in the game without challenge if he had better recovery. For instance if he had Fox's UpB he'd be completely broken IMO

 

[HawaiianJigglyPuff]

if mango were in this thread, he'd be like:

Falco Fox Jiggs Sheik Marth Peach CF/ICs Doc Ganon imo

falco and jiggs top tier?

raaaaaaaaaape

 

[SDC]

if mango were in this thread, he'd be like:



falco and jiggs top tier?

raaaaaaaaaape

where is that excessively cheerful fruit when you need him?

 

[Wschl]

I dont think falco is 2 good.
Sure, he got some nice combos, but his recovery is one of the most sucking at the entire game. He can be gimped by nearby every character, especially @ the higher tiers ( fox outshin, peach everything, jiggs/marth/shiek bthrow to random attack,falcon edgehog to knee, ganon reverse uair... even Chu can gimp easily with neutral b or upair).

Sure, the correct useage of mindgames allows you to recover sometimes, but this wont go 2 well often.
Jason just look at ur match against shizwiz on YS. Last stock ...he could do nothin after combod u soo well.
So what ? Falco can surely combo great, but he can be gimped even greater. Thats why i dont see him @ top tier.

Marth needs to sweetspot well, but his recovery isnt nearly @falcos low level. Also he can kill THAT easy. Rly, im Pal player and i get SO many combos where the enemy couldnt do anything and BÄM! dair, and he just rejumps out of it =(. IN Ntsc Marth is even better, and he is able to kill every Char very easily. Thats off course though his amazing egde guard ability.

As a Jiggs player, im still thinking about her position at the tierlist. Sure , best recovery, great combos, nice edgeguard ... hard to combo, hard to edgeguard etc... The main reason why i still think shes not top tier is obviously, fox.
Miss a Rest > dead
over 70%> dead
camping fox > gay.
fox of stage > yay
but srsly, against shiek edgehog 2 rest is rly 2 good haha :D

 

[Criosphinx]

try beating me with marth then say marth's that good I only use him cuz I'm good w/ him but even when I sucked I always ***** the best marth's he's too easy to **** with so many **** like combos and gimps and stuff

People don't need to be better than you at the game to know that you're wrong.

Falco as the best character is laughable, at best.

 

[stingers]

m2k u really think falco goes even at worst with jiggs?

 

[strawhats]

where is that excessively cheerful fruit when you need him?

lol, I know... mango where r u?
And m2k is saying this now because he cant beat mango's falco and jiggz. Trust me m2k ***** spacies...just ask PC Chris, could never beat Jason's marth w/. his falco.

Based on the characters that are being used at the highest level falco and jiggz are right there.

Jiggz ***** falco's...just ask shiz who [played mango and couldn't beat mango's jiggz ar RoM

 

[stingers]

i think the only high level falco that hasn't lost to a jiggs is mango...for obvious reasons

zhu, shiz, pp, get *****

where's pc chris when we need him...

 

[Pi]

Shiz is a great player, no doubt, he's got a sick style and he's way2good
but that doesn't mean he doesn't do some stupid ****
so don't use his match with M2K as an example of why falco isn't viable for the #1 tier spot.


Falco as #1 tier isn't laughable, I'd say it's between him and Jiggs, accounting for human ability.


And I would have to say that jiggs does in fact **** falco pretty bad ._.

 

[Archangel]

if mango were in this thread, he'd be like:



falco and jiggs top tier?

raaaaaaaaaape

You know him too well

lol, I know... mango where r u?
And m2k is saying this now because he cant beat mango's falco and jiggz. Trust me m2k ***** spacies...just ask PC Chris, could never beat Jason's marth w/. his falco.

Based on the characters that are being used at the highest level falco and jiggz are right there.

Jiggz ***** falco's...just ask shiz who [played mango and couldn't beat mango's jiggz ar RoM

This is probably true. Lets not Forget Hbox beats up spacies also.

 

[voorhese]

this will explain my first post, and why it is true/false... you be the judge

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9o5_W6hn9k

Who is top tier?

 

[joeplicate]

lol @ all the people saying that falco sucks

honestly i think it's just that the new tier list came out and everybody did a little jumping on the bandwagon. who was the best falco a year ago, when they were gathering data for the new list? a rusty shiz, and eggm, and maybe lambchops. not very impressive representation, anyways

all these people with 09 join dates seem to forget that falco was considered one of the best characters in the game for a very long time--2nd on the previous tier list was not a coincidence.

"But his recovery sucks, everybody can gimp him!"
has there been some drastic development since 06-07 that suddenly ***** falco's recovery? not at all; korean dj wh0red the **** out of his shinespikes on falco even back in the day, jigglypuff's bair still existed, ken still gimped space animals with his sword.

on the previous tier list, they even said that he was the 2nd best by a small margin. it's not ridiculous in the least to think of falco as a top contender. why has everyone forgotten that he's still a good character?

edit: dam i got ***** by the thread moving past me

 

[stingers]

pc chris *****

best foreva

 

[2001]

Fox=The best character in the game by FAR, but only at a level of play that cannot be reached humans. I know it sounds corny but it's true.

Falco=Extremely campy, very great at comboing, lacks in recovery but his offensive makes up for it big time. Arguably best projectile in the game only being compared to fox's laser or doc's pillz. Needlez are only good for messing with your recovery imo.

Marth=It seems like marth has an answer for almost every characters strengths such as his chaingrabs on spacies, his range against floaties, or his overall insanely easy ability to gimp every character. But at the end of the day, he lacks a projectile, and sheik gives him a pretty tough time. Not having a projectile really holds him back.

Sheik=Unbelievably easy combos, a great semi-spike combo finisher, a good recovery, and a down throw that wipes out more than half the cast, sheik seems like the best over all character in the game, and may be the best. However a smart fox, a campy falco, and maybe even an amazing doc, can give sheik a run for her money.

Purin=Wall of Pain is a ***** along with Bair by itself, the REST, and tons of combo into rest, shoots jiggz way up on the tier list. But really, you have to be careless to get stuck in the wall of pain. Getting gimped when playing as fox or falco is understandable to a certain extent, but you should never lose stock due to bair combos. The rest is high risk high reward plain and simple. If it hits it takes a stock away, possibly one of yours as well. If it misses, only you lose a stock. As for the setups into rest, be patient. Fox&falco can camp, marth has range, and sheik has overall ability to hit and run. Yes, jiggz does die at 70-80 percent.

IMO, the list goes

1.Fox
2.Falco
3.Sheik
4.Marth


After that is just so hard.

Maybe,

Peach
Jiggilypuff
Falcon
Doc
Samus

idk,

 

[stingers]

Bowser and Fox are top tier in perfect play...***.

 

[SDC]

As much as I love m2k, I gotta side with the people saying that he's just saying that you can't beat falco cuz he struggles with mango. We've seen this before. Take brawl for example, when he's beasting everyone with MK, and all of a sudden ninjalink beats him with diddy, he says that diddy is the ultimate mk counter. Then he gets some confidence, learns the matchup better, and kicks ninjalink's ***.

As I've said, we've seen this before: m2k jumps to negative conclusions when he has trouble beating an opponent with a character that he hasn't figured out yet.

Give it time, m2k will get back some confidence, get back to the drawing board, gameplan better, start ****** falco, and change his statement.

In the meantime, falco is top gay tier, but not #1, he has his weaknesses. Ex: Look what Armada did to falco users at genesis (mango, shiz, zhu, etc. and I know it's not like Armada ***** them all, but he did very well). Mango switched back to jiggz for a reason.

 

[joeplicate]

the magus "perfect play" idea is absolute garbage; it's 100% theorycrafting, and i despise you for bringing it up

 

[SDC]

the magus "perfect play" idea is absolute garbage; it's 100% theorycrafting, and i despise you for bringing it up

I think he was jokin lol

 

[NES n00b]

Needlez are only good for messing with your recovery imo.

Needles are better than doc's pills real talk. Fully charged can do 17% damage or something and if done right, can lead into grab which leads into......you know the rest. It forces characters to approach, cancels almost ever projectile including Samus charge shot with just a single one, and can lead to grabs when aerial needles are used. Her platform camping game is definitely complimented by needles, too.

Not to mention it messes with recoveries as you said.

I may not know too much about stuff like this, but I say it is one of the best projectiles in the game behind lasers. In addition, I think Peach's turnips are better than Doc's pills for the most part.

 

[Proverbs]

Falcon is top tier. Seriously, he messed up my friend's Brawl game. Anytime Falcon is in any match, the game freezes--even 1p mode. What other character destroys Brawl like that? He's too good.

 

[joeplicate]

I think he was jokin lol

but STILL

 

[LLDL]

Falco Fox Jiggs Sheik Marth Peach CF/ICs Doc Ganon imo

In that exact order, Falco 2 good.

 

[stingers]

but STILL

get trolled...nov 2008

 

[SDC]

In that exact order, Falco 2 good.

cmon chain don't kid yourself here

 

[Anth0ny]

Falco the best in the game? I don't know about that, but I'm not one to argue with M2K.

What I DO know is that Jiggs is undeniably top 5 at this point. Also, I don't want to jump the gun or anything, but I think it's definitely possible that Fox could drop a spot in the future (read: not neccesarily the near future). The highest placed Fox main at Genesis was Jman at #13. I know his controller was ****ed, but let's say he got top 8. That's ONE Fox main in the top 8. I think the game has evolved to the point where the top players know that matchup INSIDE AND OUT exponentially more than any other character in the game, and this is hurting Fox real bad.

I think the results at ROM2 and Pound 4 will speak volumes about the next top tiers. I personally think it's gonna look like this after Pound:

Top:
Fox
Falco
Sheik
Marth
Jiggs

High:
Falcon
Peach
Ganon
Iceys
Doc
Who cares

 

[keeper]

I think the results at ROM2 and Pound 4 will speak volumes about the next top tiers. I personally think it's gonna look like this after Pound:

Top:
Fox
Falco
Sheik
Marth
Jiggs

High:
Falcon
Peach
Ganon
Doc
Who cares

I know I'm totally nitpicking, but Ice Climbers?

 

[SDC]

I think the results at ROM2 and Pound 4 will speak volumes about the next top tiers. I personally think it's gonna look like this after Pound:

Top:
Fox
Falco
Sheik
Marth
Jiggs

High:
Falcon
Peach
Ganon
Ice Climbers
Doc
Samus
Mewtwo somewhere way down there lol
who cares

fixed post is fixed

 

[Llumys]

Fox
Falco
Jigglypuff
Sheik
Marth
Peach
Captain Falcon
Ice Climbers
Ganondorf
Samus
Doctor Mario

 

[Anth0ny]

I know I'm totally nitpicking, but Ice Climbers?

Right after Doc lol

Or maybe right before. Yeah, probably right before Doc

 

[voorhese]

idk this whole thing is weird, basicly the tier list has marth at like bottom of top?

i still think it top 4 wont change

 

[HawaiianJigglyPuff]

Can we see a formula for how the tier list is compiled?

In any case, tier lists are about how well the character does in tournaments, how many play them and do well, etc.

That said, Jiggs and Falco moving up is COMPLETELY possible if not probable. I really wish I had the statistics on people who have eith Falco as a main or Falco as a secondary. I think seeing Falco on top is POSSIBLE.

How many straight up fox mains were in the top 16 at genesis??
ONE. JMan.

4 Jiggs mains, 3 falcos plus another for mango if you count him?

 

[-ACE-]

Top 4 are correct. I think if M2K played Falco he wouldn't be saying that Falco is the best. Fox beats him overall in singles, matchup-wise; especially in important matchups (Fox is slightly better against Marth, Sheik, Puff, Ganon, etc.). Falco has insane onstage control and great combos, but if we're looking at this from the highest level of play, he gets gimped pretty easily (definitely easier than the other top tier candidates). Jiggs is really good, and has earned the 5th spot in my opinion but she has a few rough matchups with non-top tiers (like Doc). I also can't help but feel that some of her success is due to people not being educated in the Puff matchup (aka not playing gay enough). It's too hard for me to put her over any of the current top 4.

 

[SwastikaPyle]

Marth will move down.

That is all I am predicting.