The new top tier?

[KirbyKaze]

I think give or take IC, Ganon, Doc for some lists, the viable characters are pretty obvious at this point, and the top 7 characters are also more or less cemented. And of them, Falcon is usually considered the worst.

Falco is really good. I'm pretty sure most of the Falcos will deny this to the grave.

edit: Zelda's recovery is horrible against good characters.

 

[Smoke and smash]

the up B ohko isnt ****. the only reason to ever use it is if they miss a rest.

Reverse upB isn't THAT hard to land. It takes a lot of patience but it can work if you do some good baiting. Not saying that matters in the matchup much because it is hard to land on a good jiggly puff consistantly, maybe you'll get one or two off in match if your lucky. Besides that all you really have to ko jiggs with is like downsmash so the matchup is still horrible.

Anyway, Fox/Jiggs/Shiek/Marth are highest tier in my opinion. Falco/Peach are next highest, followed by Falcon/Doc/Ice Climbers/Gannon/maybe samus.

I would rank falco higher but he is so overplayed and I think that contributes to a lot of his tournement success. His crappy recovery is just too bad to ignore, and allows for him to double his opponents damage given and still lose.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Reverse upB isn't THAT hard to land. It takes a lot of patience but it can work if you do some good baiting. Not saying that matters in the matchup much because it is hard to land on a good jiggly puff consistantly, maybe you'll get one or two off in match if your lucky.

This sounds somewhat self-contradicting.

It'll only work if you're lucky, but it's not THAT hard to land? You might get 2 in a match? What?

More accurately, you might get none in a match if the Puff does nothing but Puff things like spam Bairs and constantly shield and move backwards (ie. every Puff in the known universe).

 

[Scar]

IMO tier list goes

Fox
Falco
Jiggs
Sheik
Marth (he just can't catch up with the metagame)
Peach (theoretically the 3rd best character in the game. while that lvl of play can't be reached however, armada proved she deserves at least 6th)
Falcon (the worst of the "viable" characters - at max potential he is awful; however if the player is a skilled techchaser he can compete)

IC's are too slow to get a grab, ganon is a nerfed falcon, doc is all around balanced however its better to excel in certain categories than be neutral in many.

this looks like the CORRECT list for a lot of reasons

seems like a lot of people are still saying falco's recovery is important, but what they seem to be missing is that he's strong enough onstage that in a tier list discussion he can beat most characters easily without getting hit off the stage 4 times

also people are resistant to jiggs being above marth but i think that's obvious at this juncture, as far as jiggs above sheik well yeah sheik is gay but really she has no approach, watch any good sheik and you can see how limited she is when she isn't being directly attacked

ICs are borderline high tier but yeah when they're not getting grabs they're getting *****, def right after CF

ganon and doc are somewhat clearly below the others listed

 

[Cups]

ness is definitely too good, just give him like 5 minutes to set up his jackets 'n **** and nobody can win

 

[Oracle]

Zelda's recovery is horrible against all characters.

Fixed.

Yeah Hax's list seems legit.

 

[AprilShaw]

I gotta agree with Hax's post too.

I had the same list but with Falco above Fox, but really (imo) those 2 are pretty much equal. Also, from a tournament results standpoint, wouldn't Ganon be above IC's right now? I don't really follow either of their metagames much but it seems like we're getting a lot of good Ganons, like Kage, RockCrock, Linguini, etc.

Never seen that guy move so dang fast

 

[null55]

I feel like every ability of the ICs has yet to be fully applied. Idk, I just have the feeling that they're not fully mastered yet. They can do some amazing **** beyond grabs...

Btw Hax, explain to me this whole theoretical Peach being third shtuff.

 

[HawaiianJigglyPuff]

I feel like every ability of the ICs has yet to be fully applied. Idk, I just have the feeling that they're not fully mastered yet.

Btw Hax, explain to me this whole theoretical Peach being third shtuff.

oh yeah. the ICs have so much potential (it seems like)

it's just a matter of whether or not people's fingers can move quick enough to do the craziest ****

 

[Yuna-Maria]

ness is definitely too good, just give him like 5 minutes to set up his jackets 'n **** and nobody can win

I laughed pretty hard.

 

[Smoke and smash]

This sounds somewhat self-contradicting.

It'll only work if you're lucky, but it's not THAT hard to land? You might get 2 in a match? What?

More accurately, you might get none in a match if the Puff does nothing but Puff things like spam Bairs and constantly shield and move backwards (ie. every Puff in the known universe).

One reverse up B is plenty, a one move stock loss.

In most positions, it's impossible to get it off. You have to use some unorthodox movements for a quick unexpected upB. It's not always worth trying, but it can be if you don't lose a stock trying to do it.

 

[Nø Ca$h]

my best idea of new tier list(it must be in production)

TT
fox
falco
marth
peach
HT
jiggs
sheik
falcon
icys
doc
MT
ganon
samus
luigi
dk
mario
LT
link
pika
roy
yl
zelda
gaw
BT
m2
yoshi
ness
bowser
pichu
kirby

 

[SDC]

my best idea of new tier list(it must be in production)

TT
fox
falco
marth
peach
HT
jiggs
sheik
falcon
icys
doc
MT
ganon
samus
luigi
dk
mario
LT
link
pika
roy
yl
zelda
gaw
BT
yoshi
m2
ness
bowser
pichu
kirby

No offense man, but

peach top tier? lol

yl, roy, zelda, yoshi above mewtwo?! D: ouch that hurts man

sheik not in top tier? lol

ganon in mid tier? double lol

 

[Nø Ca$h]

there hasnt been an amazing sheik in a while sans m2k.

we JUST discovered armada. hes prolly gonna improve alot before pound.

i was thinking ganon in HT, but doc has the best sex kick.

m2 has tricks, but hes too limited. yoshi has no shield game, im switching m2 above yoshi lol.

 

[tubes]

I feel IC have like mad potential and could even be top tier. However, the metagame just ain't there yet and as it stands Imma go with Hax's list. Maybe give it a year. No, realistically I'd guess 2. I'll just have to wait and see.

 

[Scar]

players don't make the tier list nova

sheik > peach and marth. so is jiggs.

hax's list is the only one i've agreed with in a long time.

i also think that in singles falco > fox at the highest reachable level of play, but fox is an all-around better character (especially when you include CP stages)

 

[Nø Ca$h]

that was just my current opinion, i know players dont make tiers.

it honestly depends on the player when it comes to TT. we havent seen a kdj type sheik since kdj lol.

 

[Scidadle]

IMO tier list goes

Fox
Falco
Jiggs
Sheik
Marth (he just can't catch up with the metagame)
Peach (theoretically the 3rd best character in the game. while that lvl of play can't be reached however, armada proved she deserves at least 6th)
Falcon (the worst of the "viable" characters - at max potential he is awful; however if the player is a skilled techchaser he can compete)

IC's are too slow to get a grab, ganon is a nerfed falcon, doc is all around balanced however its better to excel in certain categories than be neutral in many.

I aagree with this list

 

[SDC]

there hasnt been an amazing sheik in a while sans m2k.

we JUST discovered armada. hes prolly gonna improve alot before pound.

i was thinking ganon in HT, but doc has the best sex kick.

m2 has tricks, but hes too limited. yoshi has no shield game, im switching m2 above yoshi lol.

Yes and that makes sheik that much less of a broken, cheap ****ing character.

Yes, and that means because of one result from one tourney, we bump peach up the tier list.

And ganon's ariels aren't good? Do you know how broken ganon's fair is?

I'll let YL slide, but zelda and roy? roy has a dtilt and an fsmash, and zelda has a fair, and.....a fair. Saying mewtwo has tricks and that's it is like saying link has projectiles. There's more to the character then that. Mew2's got dtilt, and, stuff.... lol I don't feel like typing it all out right now, just go watch a taj vid and then we'll talk

Don't mean to get pissed lol, I just think people are getting too hopped up about armada after genesis. I think that the tier list could be changed for peach too, but right now is too soon. And if anything is going to be adjusted, puff is going up first before peach, jiggz has been ****** for quite a while now.

 

[Nø Ca$h]

saying watch taj is like comparing every black person to obama.

i dont mean black people are low tier lol

 

[NES n00b]

Zelda has bair yeah.

 

[HawaiianJigglyPuff]

Mewtwo sucks. Seriously. Props for maining Mewtwo but you really can't be like "WHAT ZELDA ABOVE MEWTWO?? BLASPHEMY!!"

 

[Che_Lab]

this looks like the CORRECT list for a lot of reasons

seems like a lot of people are still saying falco's recovery is important, but what they seem to be missing is that he's strong enough onstage that in a tier list discussion he can beat most characters easily without getting hit off the stage 4 times

also people are resistant to jiggs being above marth but i think that's obvious at this juncture, as far as jiggs above sheik well yeah sheik is gay but really she has no approach, watch any good sheik and you can see how limited she is when she isn't being directly attacked

ICs are borderline high tier but yeah when they're not getting grabs they're getting *****, def right after CF

ganon and doc are somewhat clearly below the others listed

really good post im glad people are noting these type of facts now

 

[LLDL]

falco
fox
marth
jiggs
falcon

top 5 tier

 

[LoganW]

uh, you accidentally put in falcon and left out sheik

 

[Scar]

yeah marth really isn't that good

he's like one of the best characters in the game but he isn't THAT good

easier to play consistently tho so that should maybe count for something, idk

 

[SDC]

saying watch taj is like comparing every black person to obama.

Wow, that was...kinda racist. lol

Mewtwo sucks. Seriously. Props for maining Mewtwo but you really can't be like "WHAT ZELDA ABOVE MEWTWO?? BLASPHEMY!!"

Uh, yeah I can. Mewtwo is sub-par, yes, but zelda has..........a fair. That's it. If I'm feeling generous I give her a dsmash and a B. Mewtwo gives the high tiers far more problems then zelda does. The only characters that she does great against is another **** tier, and if mew2 plays smart there's not much she can do, even against him.
(cue the zelda mains to start flaming me)

 

[-ACE-]

yeah marth really isn't that good

he's like one of the best characters in the game but he isn't THAT good

easier to play consistently tho so that should maybe count for something, idk

I don't really see what you're getting at here. I mean I kind of see what you're saying, but on paper this post looks like garbage.

 

[HawaiianJigglyPuff]

uh, you accidentally put in falcon and left out sheik

lol QFT

I think changes that need to happen that people SHOULD all agree on are jiggs moving to top tier, marth going down in some way or another, falcon staying where he is.

Uh, yeah I can. Mewtwo is sub-par, yes, but zelda has..........a fair. That's it. If I'm feeling generous I give her a dsmash and a B. Mewtwo gives the high tiers far more problems then zelda does. The only characters that she does great against is another **** tier, and if mew2 plays smart there's not much she can do, even against him.
(cue the zelda mains to start flaming me)

I disagree. I think Zelda gives more of a challenge than Mewtwo does. Maybe mewtwo gives spacies more of a problem but sheik marth peach jiggs falcon????

also, like what was said...a bair too

 

[LoganW]

just saying lol
imo:
fox
falco
sheik
jiggs
marth

 

[Scar]

i was responding to this

falco
fox
marth
jiggs
falcon

top 5 tier

marth is not THAT good

he's really good but he's not 3rd, he's def behind sheik and def behind jiggs IMO not in that order

but he's better than peach falcon ICs doc ganon samus and the other 15 chars so he's pretty good

then i somewhat casually remarked that he's easier to play for a whole day of tournament than fox and mused as to whether that should affect his placement, and left it open-ended

but what i was really thinking was that if that's an argument then further support for falco as #1


EDIT******* has anyone read the OP? bunch of good points

 

[Anth0ny]

I don't really see what you're getting at here. I mean I kind of see what you're saying, but on paper this post looks like garbage.

I think what he's trying to say is at this point of the metagame, there's no way in hell that Marth is 2nd on the tier list. Top 5, not top 2.

 

[-ACE-]

Ok, I agree with that. Especially the part about him being easier to play for a whole day of tournament.

 

[LoganW]

EDIT******* has anyone read the OP? bunch of good points

LMFAO Scar is too good

 

[The Good Doctor]

hax's list4prez
for real though, great list

 

[Ocean]

i was responding to this



marth is not THAT good

he's really good but he's not 3rd, he's def behind sheik and def behind jiggs IMO not in that order

but he's better than peach falcon ICs doc ganon samus and the other 15 chars so he's pretty good

then i somewhat casually remarked that he's easier to play for a whole day of tournament than fox and mused as to whether that should affect his placement, and left it open-ended

I'm all for marth moving down, but I don't know if he's enough to go behind sheik.
we have to remember that for a LONG time, marth was at top. he dominated all the tournaments, sans for foxes and falcos here and there, but mainly it was a total marth lead. I'm not sure how much this applies to the current tier list (I'm terrible at judging characters), but given his past lead, I believe his drop deserves some weight carried.

 

[Nø Ca$h]

marth is really good but i totally understand. its proved marth can be amazing, but he recently showed that he was a fad. he reflects the players skill, like falcon.

jiggs has shown to be a top tier character.
sheik is stagnant like marth

fox=falco. imo, falco has proven be better than he previously was.

peach was good at genesis, but more needs to proven. if armada continues growing, peach would reach above marth easily.

fox/falco
jiggs
marth/sheik
peach
falcon

summary-disreguard my previous list lol

 

[Comrade]

Zelda has bair yeah.

Zelda has not just one, but TWO attacks.

But yeah, zelda's not goin anywhere anytime soon, same with mewtwo. (flame on!)

I've been hearing speculation of IC having some potential if somebody could properly and consistently desync them, thoughts?

 

[Ocean]

I've been hearing speculation of IC having some potential if somebody could properly and consistently desync them, thoughts?

irrelevant. we are not comparing what IC is possible of doing, but comparing what IC has been shown of doing.

EDIT:: peach doesn't deserve the height people are giving her. we have seen one amazing peach player in past major tournaments, but this is not enough to base a climb off of. wait until more good peach players start showing up.

 

[Nø Ca$h]

i thought peach was good before armada.

ocean is correct, this is about what was shown.