The Brawlplusery - Brawl+ Codeset - Updated 3rd April

[shanus]

Also, you can make his recovery lagless if you do it right.

 

[Revven]

I guess I should clarity, I only meant the landing lad of the Up B move.

Where can I catch your vids SMK?

Yeah, the landing lag is a problem we are going to fix for both DK and Bowser because neither of them had it in Melee, why should the now when their recoveries are already quite crippled?

My matches: www.youtube.com/user/smk2

 

[CyberGlitch]

That's relieving to hear.
Alright, my DK rambling is done for now, hah.

BTW, your DK is a beast, SMK...though match 2 shows how it stands no chance against Falcon's "YES!" Hehe

 

[Iamthemovie]

I like the direction of this but it feels like there are a couple of balancing issues created by the codes themselves.

Does the idea of having specific Lag Cancel rates for each character sound good? I mean, there are some characters who already benefit way too much from an aerial attack that already has relatively low lag and low startup time. Fox's dair, for example, with No Stale Moves, a single dair does around 16%, can combo be linked to utilt, dsmash, usmash. To me, it seems a bit too much.
The codes created are benefiting characters with speedier move execution and punishing big, slow characters like Bowser.

BUT... I haven't tried B+ yet. I don't have my Wii in college with me so I am not able to test it out myself. This is just an evaluation based on some videos I saw.

 

[The Cape]

Mario actually doesnt have any problems killing. His kill moves kill just fine. Just mix up which moves you use considering the character.

Killing Fox with a U smash is a terrible idea, aim for D smash or F smash or an edgeguard.

His moves arent weak in the least, you just have to have a bit more of an idea of which moves to use on which characters. I rarely have a problem killing people with Mario as he has plenty of kill moves and he is great with edgeguards. Different kind of playstyle, Mario has never been the straight up kill machine.

 

[leafgreen386]

@Iamthemovie:

Fox's dair combo'd like a beast in vb, too. At 0%, it led into an AAA combo. At 20% it led into a utilt. At 50% it led into dsmash, and at 80% it led into usmash. Rough percentages, but you get the point. And then we increased the hitstun in the game, making all of these possible from much earlier. Having reduced aerial lag really doesn't make a lot of difference in the combo potential of this move, since it was already so good for it in the first place.

Also, slower characters actually aren't doing that bad. Bowser was the only one who was really in need of help, and we gave him the thick skin code. Like, there might be a few more char spec balances going toward them, but it isn't so bad.

 

[ph00tbag]

Here's some Lucario combo's and examples of how bad his bair is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbP2rAUGTRo

I don't know. Lucario's bair seems bad, but he has a lot of other decent KO moves. He also has a roll that is borderline broken.

The codes created are benefiting characters with speedier move execution and punishing big, slow characters like Bowser.

Except that DDD is mid-tier at worst. He suffered more from the loss of the chain-grab than from being slow. Ganon also got a huge improvement with hitstun. Ike's has a veritable wall with SHFF fair. There goes the slow character argument.

Really, the only character that suffered was Bowser, and he got thick skin.

 

[Iamthemovie]

Fox's dair wasn't too bad in vB mostly because the defensive game was superior to the offense game. I'm not entirely sure cause I haven't play B+ yet but can you shield grab a Fox right after he does a dair without getting hit by a jab or utilt?

I know DK is still pretty **** good in B+. Fsmash+Dsmash have low startup lag compared to the amount of damage+knockback it has. Bair WoP is good for defensive and offensive game. Uair is good for juggling characters with bad dair attacks.
DDD, I don't know, didn't see too much of him but he has bair WoP, uair and dair are good defensive moves, and fair can be combo'd into for a good kill.
Ganon, though doesn't have a lot of good combo moves, makes up for it with plenty of knock back. Fair, bair, dair have insane amount of knockback. Dtilt is pretty good for a combo starter, leading to a uair/fair.
Bowser, on the other hand, lacks quick moves that will pop characters upward for a chance to combo. Utilt/usmash is has too much cooldown lag to follow up with anything else. Even if he does get opponents in the air, he has no quick attack that will keep them up there. Fair has mediocre knockback compared to the other heavy weights, Bair is still pretty good, nair has bad knockback even in vB and don't get me started on his dair.

Ok... I gotta get my wii soon so I can at least test him out before making these assumptions...

 

[CyberGlitch]

Mario actually doesnt have any problems killing. His kill moves kill just fine. Just mix up which moves you use considering the character.

Killing Fox with a U smash is a terrible idea, aim for D smash or F smash or an edgeguard.

His moves arent weak in the least, you just have to have a bit more of an idea of which moves to use on which characters. I rarely have a problem killing people with Mario as he has plenty of kill moves and he is great with edgeguards. Different kind of playstyle, Mario has never been the straight up kill machine.

Are you saying you don't see a problem in his Up Smash being useless as a kill move because he has other moves to kill with? Is there any real reason not to increase the move's knockback (is low knockback needed to combo into Up Air, for example).

The move should kill a medium weight opponent at 160%. That's of course pure opinion, but we're trying to create characters with options and useful movesets. It's great that you've found ways to avoid having to get vertical kills, but that doesn't mean the move should be ignored.


Iamthemovie, your assumptions about Bowser's downair and neutral air aren't far off. They simply are poor moves to use, easy to punish, and don't lead to combos or do much damage on their own. Maybe neutral air should have it's knockback increased, and downair should have landing lad reduced so it can lead to combos. Bowser's back air would also benifit from reduced lag, but as you keep looking at how to improve Bowser you got to keep in mind that his laggy moves are what create his unique playstyle. They are high risk, perhaps they should have higher reward? The knockback of Bowser's forward air is fine, especially with the no stale moves code.

 

[The Cape]

Mario U smash ***** floaties. He is more of a combo and gimp character anyway.

His U smash doesnt need a buff, in fact Mario doesnt need a buff at all.

 

[GHNeko]

Mario U smash ***** floaties. He is more of a combo and gimp character anyway.

His U smash doesnt need a buff, in fact Mario doesnt need a buff at all.

Up B distance, Fair sour spot KB and overall animation speed, and dtilt?

Come on now.

 

[JonBeBonanza]

Is there a code yet that can allow you to say import mp3's as background music for stages?

 

[Shadic]

No. That requires ISO hacking.

 

[Revven]

I know DK is still pretty **** good in B+. Fsmash+Dsmash have low startup lag compared to the amount of damage+knockback it has. Bair WoP is good for defensive and offensive game. Uair is good for juggling characters with bad dair attacks.
DDD, I don't know, didn't see too much of him but he has bair WoP, uair and dair are good defensive moves, and fair can be combo'd into for a good kill.

Okay two things.

1. DK is beast, he has Cargo Uthrow > anything combos again
2. DDD is beast on FF'ers and some of the other heavyweights, he has a harder time against floaties because of his Uthrow being useless on them as a setup. DDD now relies somewhat on Uthrow to setup for his combos, it leads into three of his aerial attacks on most characters (which is why I said he's not so good against floaties as they go higher than he can hit them or follow up): His Fair, Bair, and Uair all can hit you based on how you DI the Uthrow. If you DI up, you get hit by Uair and take some damage, if you DI forward, it's gonna be Fair, and if you DI backward (towards DDd), it's gonna be Bair.

DDD's Uthrow is far more useful now. You oughta watch my friend SFG's DDD in B+ (there's some videos of him against my CF and my DK). DDD isn't terrible, he only lost his CG and gained a more useful throw that was quite literally useless before.

For matches: www.youtube.com/user/smk2

 

[SketchHurricane]

DDD's Uthrow is far more useful now. You oughta watch my friend SFG's DDD in B+ (there's some videos of him against my CF and my DK). DDD isn't terrible, he only lost his CG and gained a more useful throw that was quite literally useless before.[/url]

You're right about the uThrow, though it stops working at higher percents, so it can't really lead to a kill. Short hop dair also leads to combos. Another near useless move, his nair (or yay-air, as I like to call it) can be fast falled from high to start things as well.

With the loss of the crutch, I mean, chaingrab, and the addition of hitstun, DDD just got more interesting, that's all.

 

[supersonicridley]

It feels Like samus needs to be better still. things that I feel could acomplish this are

1. Speed up the starting animation for her super misiles 2X
2. Give the morphball bombs a set knock back so that samus can use them defensily

other than that i think she is good, The charge shot kinda fixed its self with the hitstun and additional gravity

 

[Iamthemovie]

Stuff

Yeah, I know DK is good... My original post was meant to say "****ing good in", don't know why I left the -ing out of the sentence... Sorry for the mix up if I made the impression that the other heavyweights are terrible. What I'm trying to say is that a lot of the heavy weights did not receive a bigger nerf than Bowser mainly because they have more options with comboing than Bowser does.

Anyways, Samus... I think her roll needs to be faster, bombs need to explode upon contact with opponents, and Fsmash needs to have better knockback.

EDIT: Oh yeah, right... I hardly use that move in vB cause it sucked so much, I completely forgot about it. What does it kill at? 150%? Needs to be somewhere along the lines of 85% or something.

 

[Revven]

Anyways, Samus... I think her roll needs to be faster, bombs need to explode upon contact with opponents, and Fsmash needs to have better knockback.

Most Samus mains and a few others believe all she really needs increased KO potential for her charged shot, that thing is super weak. Her Fsmash doesn't really need KO buff, her charged shot does though.

But, don't worry, she'll get the buffs that everybody thinks are perfectly necessary for her character (since she is a projectile character afterall).

 

[ph00tbag]

Most Samus mains and a few others believe all she really needs increased KO potential for her charged shot, that thing is super weak. Her Fsmash doesn't really need KO buff, her charged shot does though.

But, don't worry, she'll get the buffs that everybody thinks are perfectly necessary for her character (since she is a projectile character afterall).

The buffs I hear most people asking for are better Charge Shot knockback, better Super Missile knockback, earlier proximity explosions on bombs, and earlier IASA frames out of bomb jumps.

I'm inclined to agree with all four, but all of that might be a bit much.

 

[shanus]

we can't really do any of the knockback changes yet, we know about the requests, but cant yet till we get the code

 

[goodoldganon]

So I wanted to bring Lucario up again since we messed around a lot with him last night. I came to a few conclusions about him.

I think Lucario is one of the best jugglers in the game. His u-tilt has a Shiek f-tilt-esque syndrome to it at low percentages you can Smash DI out if, but Lucario has plenty of followups to the U-tilt to continue the low percentage combos. His disjointedness also makes him near impossible to approach with some of the characters. Overall, he's a pain to fight but besides his u-tilt at least he can still be beaten. My problem lies in his aura powers.

I don't want to tweak the aura too much since it's what makes him unique, but I do feel there should be 1 or 2 tweaks to the aura. The first is that he should only get stronger as he takes damage, not as he loses stocks. Why should Lucario be rewarded for performing poorly and losing? The range, power, and damage he gains just from being at around 40-50% and down a stock is nuts. This kind of leads into my next point.

As I stated earlier, Lucario is probably one of the best jugglers in the game but most of his juggling moves don't really gain much knockback from aura powers, just some damage. But that damage racks up fast. What was once as 40% combo at the bare minimum aura powers is now suddenly as 60-70%. Therefore I suggest that aura powers only affect the range and knockback of his attacks, not the damage.

TL:DR

1. Lucario should not get more aura powers for being behind in stock. Damage should be the only thing that determines it.
2.Lucario's aura powers should not increase his percentage damage, just his knockback and range.

1 is almost a must in my opinion, number 2 is debatable.



EDIT: Where is the hitstun in the code? I'd like to take it down a bit and see what happens.

 

[Finns7]

Samus's Charge shot and Nair forget her fsmash, its fine as is.

 

[GHNeko]

*snip

You realize, that from what I was just told, Lucario loses power when he's ahead, right? So in essence, he gets punished for playing better as well.

Though I do say out of my own opinion, the concept is stupid. It's another way Sakurai discourages competition, by rewarding the lesser skilled and hindering the higher skilled.


EDIT: Better. Not Poorly. Effffff. ;___;

 

[Shell]

As more of the integral members have become a part of the BR, I'm seeing much of the quality discussion drifting away from these forums and our personal forums (which are nearly dead).

Overall, some of the larger points are still brought up for discussion here, but there are so many things going on back there character-wise and code-wise that we never hear about.

For starters, is the list of codes and who's working on what still updated? Every now and then I'll see an off-hand comment about how we might expect to see X code soon, but it was never really talked about. Additionally, I see character fixes that were never discussed in our Character threads, and I see fixes in those threads that everyone agreed upon now going ignored without explanation -- a disconnect is developing.

For now I will try to get on the chat room more to stay in the loop.

 

[goodoldganon]

You realize, that from what I was just told, Lucario loses power when he's ahead, right? So in essence, he gets punished for playing poorly as well.

Though I do say out of my own opinion, the concept is stupid. It's another way Sakurai discourages competition, by rewarding the lesser skilled and hindering the higher skilled.

That's a good point and I'm sorry for not bringing it up. It should go both ways.

I also agree with SHeLL. Maybe it's been a slow weekend but it seems these boards and the other ones are really slow.

 

[SketchHurricane]

That's a good point and I'm sorry for not bringing it up. It should go both ways.

I didn't know it worked on stocks, I just thought it worked on damage. Shows how much I play Luc. But if that's the case, it is pretty ******** and should be looked into.

 

[GHNeko]

It, being the Lucario gets power for being behind a stock, should be removed completely in my opinion because its stealth blow at competition that none of really knew about until we dove into the hacks. :/

 

[Me_Aludes]

I wouldn't change Lucario's Aura at all. It doesn't hurt competition and it's a nice and unique feature. Also, I don't think Lucario deserves a nerf, and there's no way we can know if he really deserves it right now.

 

[goodoldganon]

I wouldn't change Lucario's Aura at all. It doesn't hurt competition and it's a nice and unique feature. Also, I don't think Lucario deserves a buff, and there's no way we can know if he really deserves it right now.

Lucario is rewarded for doing poorly and being behind a stock and is punished for doing well against someone and being up a stock. That's the definition of a handicap. I'm sorry, but I feel very strongly that this is a dumb mechanic and it has to be adjusted. It's in place to prevent competition.

EDIT: I see where you probably got confused. GHNeko said 'it' and I could see how it could be confused.

 

[Me_Aludes]

Lucario is rewarded for doing poorly and being behind a stock and is punished for doing well against someone and being up a stock. That's the definition of a handicap. I'm sorry, but I feel very strongly that this is a dumb mechanic and it has to be adjusted. It's in place to prevent competition.

EDIT: I see where you probably got confused. GHNeko said 'it' and I could see how it could be confused.

Sorry, I meant "nerf", not "buff" -.-' Editing right now.

I know how Lucario's Aura work, and I still think it shouldn't be changed, but just because I think that if something works, don't touch it. And Lucario's Aura has proven to work really well in vBrawl and I can't see why it shouldn't in B+.

It's a system that rewards the bad player, yes. But Counterpicking stages works the same way, giving the loser an advantage for... losing.

I would approve it if Lucario proves to be overpowered, but that doesn't seem the case.

 

[trojanpooh]

First off, it is my opinion that aura should only be based on % and in addition, it could use a nerf. One thing to keep in mind though, is that his B gets bigger as he becomes more powerful. If it is decided to remove aura altogether, B should always be fully auratized rather than being always as weak as possible.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

Sorry, I meant "nerf", not "buff" -.-' Editing right now.

I know how Lucario's Aura work, and I still think it shouldn't be changed, but just because I think that if something works, don't touch it. And Lucario's Aura has proven to work really well in vBrawl and I can't see why it shouldn't in B+.

It's a system that rewards the bad player, yes. But Counterpicking stages works the same way, giving the loser an advantage for... losing.

I would approve it if Lucario proves to be overpowered, but that doesn't seem the case.

I agree

Lucario atm is definitely a great character but most likely is not the best(From playing, it seems he has problems against MK, Marth, and Toonlink) I'd suggest just waiting it out, also PA is having a brawl+ tournament within a few weeks so we can test the codes in actual competition.

I would also love to remind everybody if Lucario's shorthop could be slightly lowered.

Also, I will be testing most of the characters today to see there current combo potential in beta 3.2 and will be making a video hopefully by the end of the day.

 

[GHNeko]

Sorry, I meant "nerf", not "buff" -.-' Editing right now.

I know how Lucario's Aura work, and I still think it shouldn't be changed, but just because I think that if something works, don't touch it. And Lucario's Aura has proven to work really well in vBrawl and I can't see why it shouldn't in B+.

It's a system that rewards the bad player, yes. But Counterpicking stages works the same way, giving the loser an advantage for... losing.

I would approve it if Lucario proves to be overpowered, but that doesn't seem the case.

Too bad the Aura Stock issue is generally anti-competitive. its besides the fact of wether it makes him OP'd or not. We're trying to make the game more competitive, and the Aura Stock thing defeats that purpose.

Lucario's Aura % should stay. Its his gimmick for getting stronger has he gets beat up. But for being a stock behind? He shouldnt get a boost for that because its anti-competitive. He shouldnt LOSE power from being a STOCK ahead either. Because he's winning. If He CP'd a stage that he's successful on, then that should be in his ADVANTAGE. He should be WINNING because that's his COUNTERPICK. Aura Stock negates part of this advantage by making him WORSE for WINNING on a COUNTERPICK he PICKED. It's another jab at competitive smash because its linked to Stock, which is the standard competitive setting by which competitive smasher's go by. Hell, 10$ says its linked to Time Matches too. :/

Its a stupid concept and anti-competitive and goes against the ideals of Brawl+. OP'd or Not. He doesn't need it because he has his Aura % gimmick and he's ALREADY a good character. If you're losing with a good character, you should get better via skill. Not rely on a crutch that is that Aura Stock issue. You shouldnt have a ball and chain on you for being better skilled.

I could go on and on and repeat the hell out of myself.

tl;dr - Aura Stock is non-competitive. Lucario doesn't need it. He has Aura % and that retains his intial gimmick and appeal. No one should be rewarded in mid-battle for doing ****ty. We have a CP system for stages AND characters. Why does Lucario need this? He doesnt. It needs to go. Aura Stock. Not Aura %. If you vouch to remove Aura %. You are an idiot in my eyes and you need to leave Brawl+ and Brawl.

EDIT: And by YOU, I mean people in General. I'm not trying to attack anyone specific with the tl;dr.

 

[zxeon]

too Bad The Aura Stock Issue Is Generally Anti-competitive. Its Besides The Fact Of Wether It Makes Him Op'd Or Not. We're Trying To Make The Game More Competitive, And The Aura Stock Thing Defeats That Purpose.

Lucario's Aura % Should Stay. Its His Gimmick For Getting Stronger Has He Gets Beat Up. But For Being A Stock Behind? He Shouldnt Get A Boost For That Because Its Anti-competitive. He Shouldnt Lose Power From Being A Stock Ahead Either. Because He's Winning. If He Cp'd A Stage That He's Successful On, Then That Should Be In His Advantage. He Should Be Winning Because That's His Counterpick. Aura Stock Negates Part Of This Advantage By Making Him Worse For Winning On A Counterpick He Picked. It's Another Jab At Competitive Smash Because Its Linked To Stock, Which Is The Standard Competitive Setting By Which Competitive Smasher's Go By. Hell, 10$ Says Its Linked To Time Matches Too. :/

Its A Stupid Concept And Anti-competitive And Goes Against The Ideals Of Brawl+. Op'd Or Not. He Doesn't Need It Because He Has His Aura % Gimmick And He's Already A Good Character. If You're Losing With A Good Character, You Should Get Better Via Skill. Not Rely On A Crutch That Is That Aura Stock Issue. You Shouldnt Have A Ball And Chain On You For Being Better Skilled.

I Could Go On And On And Repeat The Hell Out Of Myself.

Tl;dr - Aura Stock Is Non-competitive. Lucario Doesn't Need It. He Has Aura % And That Retains His Intial Gimmick And Appeal. No One Should Be Rewarded In Mid-battle For Doing ****ty. We Have A Cp System For Stages And Characters. Why Does Lucario Need This? He Doesnt. It Needs To Go. Aura Stock. Not Aura %. If You Vouch To Remove Aura %. You Are An Idiot In My Eyes And You Need To Leave Brawl+ And Brawl.

Edit: And By You, I Mean People In General. I'm Not Trying To Attack Anyone Specific With The Tl;dr.

QFTMFT

 

[daangdang]

As GHNeko said, in his large wall of text, Lucario's Aura stock trait is anti-competitive, and his Aura % trait is what makes him unique, and is acceptably fair and competitive (all of which I strongly agree with).

However, I vouch that his Aura should be shrunken, from a range of 0%-188ish%, to a smaller 0%-~150%, to make use of his Aura (because most players don't last until 188), which isn't a nerf or buff because at that point, he's ready to knock-out, followed by inablility/difficulty to rack up damage.

 

[trojanpooh]

In the next release can you include this code? Freshly made by spunit:

No Ladders [spunit262]
04858E18 38600000

I played a couple matches with it, and you can still drop down from the tops of ladders in 75m, but other than that (which is probably better anyways because no one likes to have to zigzag to their point of destination) I think it works perfectly.

 

[zxeon]

Someone explain what Tl;dr means. Nvm wikid it.

 

[goodoldganon]

Ok so I got my capture card working. Ya me. I'll try and start recording clips for combos and what not, but I did want to run this 'Tutorial' or 'What's New With Brawl+' video by you guys. Here are the major game altering codes I was going to highlight. (Not in order at the moment.)

1. Shield Stun
2. Auto L-cancel
3. Lagless Ledges
4. Momentum
5. Level Freezer
6. No Tripping
7. Bowser's Thick Skin
8. MKs Flimsy Armor
9. Hitstun

If I can convey the individual character gravities and other tweaks I will, but I felt those are the 9 big things I want to cover first. What do you guys think? I'm heading to the IRC to check there and I'll probably get started tonight or tomorrow.


EDIT: To avoid clutter in this threat, PM me any song suggestions you have.

EDIT 2: This was easy. Have a few more clips to collect and then I can edit it together. I thought it would be cool to add a little teaser to our inevitable Combo Video, so if you have combos made of pure sex, send em my way.

 

[Bowser King]

Someone explain what Tl;dr means. Nvm wikid it.

to long; didn't read

-Bowser King

 

[Jigglymaster]

Jigglypuff needs more priority and she actually needs to kill. Also make her a bit flotier so people can't combo her.