The Brawlplusery - Brawl+ Codeset - Updated 3rd April

[trojanpooh]

Increases Link's zair would require changes to hitboxes "not possible at this point"


I think falcon could use a tad less momentum. He freakin fly's far

I haven't noticed because I like never tried but can we do ff zairs? if not we should add that to the code


Personally I feel like changing character stage ratio's would really hurt disjointed characters and there ability to abuse their disjointed attacks through platforms.

I hope you'll reconsider

Don't worry, the change will be just small enough, so it doesn't harm 1v1, but helps team and ffa as much as possible. If it is found that this cannot be achieved, the size mod will retire like MAD, HAD, and other codes that looked good on paper.

How do you freeze levels? What would the code for only PS2 frozen/reversed (which ever is better) look like?

 

[Shell]

Please don't double post.

Also, regarding the Zelda Icon: Unless you use a custom CSS with both Zelda and Sheik icons, it is counter-intuitive to have the icon only say Zelda. I can't see anyone adopting this code, including myself.

 

[trojanpooh]

Sorry about the double post, I didn't even notice that I had done that, hopefully too many people aren't bothered because they are on separate pages. I guess its just personal preference, but I prefer the Zelda Icon. It seems a little sloppy of the designers that Zelda/Sheik is an icon but Samus/ZSS and Squirtle/Ivysaur/Charizard aren't. Whatever, its not a huge deal, I was just trying to help clean up the presentation.

 

[goodoldganon]

I agree with Sword. I'll test the character size mod sometime here soon, but the ability to stab through platforms should still be available to the tall or disjointed characters. Then again, maybe too many characters could stab through platforms. W/e, I'll mess with it later.

BRAWL + IMPRESSIONS FROM THE FRESH MEAT

Also, there was a Melee teams and Brawl singles tournament today hosted by our gaming group here at school (swept em both. 125$ richer ) But I talked about Brawl+ and brought my Wii. Much like Orca said earlier, there was some hesitation about the whole thing. Many people didn't like L-cancelling and wavedashing but I told them none of those are in the game so a friend and I sat down and showed em the game. Teaching em about the changes, showing how we tweaked all the characters to play differently, and made balance adjustments. They were all really intriguied.

Anyway, inbetween matches there were a lot of people playing B+ FFAs and team matches and people were having a blast. The general consensus is that hitstun might be too much for FFA and team matches, but the one on ones every agreed were fine. The melee vets who didn't like Brawl started to enjoy Brawl+, though there were a few who were too proud to admit I think. Long story short, people are really skeptical about the whole thing. No amount of talking about it could really show my point. People needed a visual demonstration.

Therefore, if someone can help me set up or understand my capture card I would gladly make a tutorial video of the changes made to B+, how they help improve the game, and what exactly each code does. I think it would go a long way to show people exactly how Brawl+ works. I guess a picture (or video in this case) is really worth the thousand words.

 

[Finns7]

^ I was talking about this, a tutorial guide, i dont think the combo vid will get the point across as much as this. Goodolganon you should tell them the hitstun is feels better as you get used to it, its not extreme in ffa's and tb at this point to me.

 

[Shell]

With momentum (and even without, really), I believe the hitstun could stand to come down to .4825 or so. It feels just a little too easy to combo right now.

 

[goodoldganon]

Ya, I'm not gonna lie, these guys weren't the greatest players so they weren't amazing DIers. Either way, almost everyone I showed it too loved it. Sadly, the president of the club doesn't believe in modding systems and it didn't sound like he'd let me mod their Wii for them. Hopefully the members of the club can convince him otherwise.

 

[kupo15]

i can help you out with the capture card probably. I have my hitstun set to .484 and its much better right now

 

[OmniOstrich]

Vidzordidn't happen.

Seriously, though, did you guys happen to save any replays?

PM NC-Echo about it, I'm fairly certain there were several replays saved though.

I most make note of the fact that NC smash in general has hardly any MK mains, there is a soft ban almost in the community for him. We had a 50 person singles bracket in regular brawl and none of the top8 were MK mains.

I particularly enjoyed having a larger selection of neutrals, since the frozen warioware and pokemon stadium 2 were both neutral. It was very refreshing.

Also, which thread should we be posting about character balance in? It has its own thread but there seems to be a lot of discussion about it here.

 

[goodoldganon]

I'll PM you Omni

 

[Shell]

You can use the appropriate thread on these forums, or I can PM you a link to our forums where all of our Character discussion is broken down into individual threads.

 

[zxeon]

Increases Link's zair would require changes to hitboxes "not possible at this point"


I think falcon could use a tad less momentum. He freakin fly's far

I haven't noticed because I like never tried but can we do ff zairs? if not we should add that to the code


Personally I feel like changing character stage ratio's would really hurt disjointed characters and there ability to abuse their disjointed attacks through platforms.

I hope you'll reconsider

Falcon controls fine you just need more practice. Give it a day or so and you'll get used to it.

I saved some cool replays while I was playing against my friend I could upload them along with the gct I used for anyone interested and if anyone wants to capture and post them you can contact me by PM and I'll give you the details.

 

[Dan_X]

Using the latest Brawl Plussery, Momentum code, and universal size modifer (1line) I experienced a freeze-- after a while of gameplay. I had a freeze just the same before the more updated momentum code, and the addition of the universal size modifier.

Has the plussery been causing any1 else any issues? Is it even the plussery that's causing the freezing?

 

[matt4300]

Using the latest Brawl Plussery, Momentum code, and universal size modifer (1line) I experienced a freeze-- after a while of gameplay. I had a freeze just the same before the more updated momentum code, and the addition of the universal size modifier.

Has the plussery been causing any1 else any issues? Is it even the plussery that's causing the freezing?

I have had freezes many times. Long before most of the codes. I just deal with it. I used to get lots of freezes on corneria because I used the stage builder codes, But oddly enough I never get a freeze unless I'm vsing a human. When I'm just ******* around comboing cpus I never get freezes.

 

[goodoldganon]

People say it has something to do with holding a direction after a match has ended. I guess just make sure to release the control stick as soon as that last kill is landed.

 

[CyberGlitch]

I've never had this problem (I use Brawlplussery + Momentum Capture v3 + Custom Default Settings + CCS). I do not use the stage builder codes.

BTW, great work promoting Brawl+, goodoldganon. This is just the kind of stuff we need to see from all our active members, especially now that B+ has reached a coherently finished product as far as general gameplay goes. I'm especially interested in hearing the reactions of more casual players. I showed it to several more friends and they had a blast with it (one friend who loved Link in Melee, but hated him in VB and early B+, fell back in love with him again...ahhh, romance!). The hardest thing to do is explain the changes made, and the added features.

What we really need, once the momentum code is decided on, is a simple video that explains Brawl+, the goals of the project, the changes made (with footage of vanilla Brawl used alongside Brawl+ footage for comparison), and the new techniques and their applications (dash dancing, dash canceling).

Things that should be emphasized,
*Risk-Reward Balance system (explain this first, as it applies to all aspects of Brawl+, be sure to note that unlike VB, B+ rewards risk taking aggression).
*Hitstun
*Gameplay speed increase (dash speed increase, ledges).
*Increased character balance (goal, all characters should be able to win a tournament. Avoid terminology like "viable", Vanilla Brawl should be Standard Brawl, etc).
*Pokemon Trainer enhancements
*Momentum conservation (could be applied to game speed section)
*No Auto Sweetspotting (this will be a tricky subject)
*Glitch, exploit removal (removal of infinite combos, triple jump glitch, etc)
*Character specific mods (be sure to note how our goal is to enhance each characters unique play styles. Only give a few examples of these mods with side by side video comparisons. Bowser's thick skin and Ivysaurs attack and razor leaf mods would be good ones to use).

Perhaps the end of the video should bring it all together by showing 30 seconds of really cool B+ gameplay.

This video should hold the dual purpose of showing people what Brawl+ is, and showing them how to play Brawl+.

I'd do it myself, but I lack the time or equipment necessary.

 

[shanus]

Its weird people are still getting freezes? I haven't experienced one since the old spunit merger? Have you all completely replaced all of your codes with the latest text?

Also, post character balance of 3.2 in here please. It's just easiest to keep track of in this thread.

Also, as mentioned in the Competitve Agenda thread, I'm not sold on the characterize size mod yet. It does not apply to jumps which we just spent a long time balancing and its just gonna break down the balance we spent so long making with only a small benefit to feeling less "cramped".

 

[stingers]

I suggest you fix character balance a bit more (fix Shiek's Ftilt and Snake's Ftilt at least) and release a beta 4. Then just let that sit for a month or so so people can really get a hang of it. And make sure you get it right the first time so you don't have to keep updating bug fixes -- extensively test it before you release it.

Then we'll finally be able to see what Brawl+ is really like when people get to stick with a version for awhile and learn the intricacies.

 

[shanus]

Haha thats what we plan on doing Stingers. We mostly want to dictate future balance issues with tourney results. However, public release/testing does get us bug reports much faster. For instance, I have yet to see a crash in a very very long time.

What I would like to see fixed:
Sheik Ftilt Knockback
Pika Downthrow Knockback
*POSSIBLY* MK low % knockback (he has already been nerfed a fair amount though, so I'm on the fence)
Agreed upon Momentum
Better Tech Window

What we need for this to happen:
New Tech Code (difficult)
Momentum Code Improvements (not as difficult)
Move Specific Knockback Code (difficult)


When we get all these, plus a bit more, you will see Gold Release.

 

[stingers]

have you seen snake's ftilt?

you combo with the first hit of that **** forever due to the impossible teching window.

if all they try to do is sdi out, you're still getting 3-4 hits minimum.

just increase the hitstun by a few frames.

 

[shanus]

have you seen snake's ftilt?

you combo with the first hit of that **** forever due to the impossible teching window.

if all they try to do is sdi out, you're still getting 3-4 hits minimum.

Read above, improved teching window should address that no problem. However, I still tech out of it with ease now as I've adjusted to the current window. Snake has not proven to be OP at all in Brawl+ so I'm hesitant to do that.

 

[CyberGlitch]

My experiences with 3.2 character balance are promising.

I love the improvement on Ivysaur's razor leaf.
There are still issues with characters that need to be fixed that you haven't mentioned. The tether dependent characters should still have some sort of fix. Link's forward smash (and arguably Up Smash) needs a knockback increase. Shiek still lacks killing options (forward air being the best candidate to have knockback increased). Mario in also in great need of killing options, especially with codes increasing characters' vertical survivability. His forward air clearly should have more knockback and his Up Smash may also benefit from a slight adjustment.

Donkey Kong's recovery is very poor thanks to the NASL code. He is forced to hover by the edge, even when well spaced, open for another attack or an unavoidable spike. He can't land on the stage either because of the terrible landing lag of the move, where he clumsily lands on his back. He really doesn't have an option for quick recovery either. Anyone who knows what they are doing can take him down with ease once he's over the edge. His landing lag needs to be reduced. A similar case could also be made for Bowser's Up B.

 

[zxeon]

You're doing it wrong with DK.

 

[shanus]

-I have to agree with zxeon here. Sheik is a crazy bombo char and does well with that now.

- Link plays awesome now. I don't think another KO move is necessary.

-Mario has multiple guaranteed set-ups to fsmash. Cape is the expert in this one and claims mario plays amazingly well. The increase in vertical survivability you mentioned is not anywhere as substantial as you think. The largest increase we have seen thus far is 7%.

 

[OmniOstrich]

My experiences with 3.2 character balance are promising.

I love the improvement on Ivysaur's razor leaf.
There are still issues with characters that need to be fixed that you haven't mentioned. The tether dependent characters should still have some sort of fix. Link's forward smash (and arguably Up Smash) needs a knockback increase. Shiek still lacks killing options (forward air being the best candidate to have knockback increased). Mario in also in great need of killing options, especially with codes increasing characters' vertical survivability. His forward air clearly should have more knockback and his Up Smash may also benefit from a slight adjustment.

Donkey Kong's recovery is very poor thanks to the NASL code. He is forced to hover by the edge, even when well spaced, open for another attack or an unavoidable spike. He can't land on the stage either because of the terrible landing lag of the move, where he clumsily lands on his back. He really doesn't have an option for quick recovery either. Anyone who knows what they are doing can take him down with ease once he's over the edge. His landing lag needs to be reduced. A similar case could also be made for Bowser's Up B.

Shiek has Zelda, who has insane KO potential, and its also really easy to ftilt>usmash with shiek atm. Also, now with NASL its easy to land vanish on recovering opponents.

You clearly dont know how to play DK, as a vBrawl DK main I land lagless upB in brawl+ almost all the time, its not hard at all.

 

[CountKaiser]

Does anyone think D3 needs something, like that faster jab Cape mentioned?

Also, we need to put end lag and G&W's fsmash and dsmash. Upsmash has ridiculous lag on it as is, so I think it's fine.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

I'm somewhat new to the brawl+ community but I would like to voice my opinion on Lucario because I currently main him in brawl+

I believe he needs a slightly smaller shorthop, I had an old brawl+ code awhile ago and he was very fluent with his old shorthop height, now he feels just a tad sluggish.

I believe his ability to get more powerful as his % gets higher needs a slight nerf, when at about 120% he can do combo's that give easily 60%

I believe his backair should become a good kill move, its probably his worst move besides his downb, I believe it needs slightly more kill power, if I'm at 0 and my opponent is at about 160 my backair still doesn't kill.

This is just my opinion and I hope you consider this.

 

[Adapt]

Mario, Luigi, and DK are all fukkin insane in brawl+.
A couple of the better placers in tourneys in my area got together last night and played brawl+ and talked about the changes.

We used the latest plussery with momentum v3

Here's some points we came up with that should be looked at:

• CF flys across the stage, absolutely insane range that probably should be reduced. It seems further than melee
• 10 frame buffer is too much, 1 frame is too little. we need a medium ground
• Mario and Luigi are nuts. They are both combo machines, I was sheik and took almost 100 damage because of a missed tech against a Mario main.
• With faster fall speeds, anyone with a decent WOP will kill 1/2 the cast at retardedly low %s. A DK main 3-stocked a Wolf because he managed to b-throw>bair>bair>bair offstage to the point where is was absolutely impossible to recover due to wolf's fallspeed and recovery.
• Hitstun needs to be decreased a bit. It feels like too much, especially against characters already mentioned, as well as ZSS, MK, Snake and the space animals.
• Diddy needs ASL

We will consider adding a brawl+ side tourney at one of our tournaments. They happen every two months, and the next one is at the end of march, but the side tourney for that one will be melee. So possibly May-June. Hopefully there will be a more polished and tested codeset ready for us then.

 

[zxeon]

· Captain Falcon is fine. He is good at rushing down an opponent but once he's caught it could spell the end for him.

· As for Diddy you just need to practice his recovery. It's not as hard as you think to land a sweetspot.

· Wolf is actually pretty floaty I blame that one on his terrible recovery.

 

[shanus]

Diddy is excellent, he does not need ASL, they just need to learn his recovery.

Falcon – terrible priority, his mobility has always been excellent

WOPs– the only issue id have with WOPs has been against ROB.

Hitstun –*will probably need to be lowered.

 

[Adapt]

About the WOP one...I guess you're right it wasn't really the fallspeed, just poor recoveries that were the huge problem, because it also happened to a lucario as well as Ike and CF (but they didn't get 3-stocked). I think this could be fixed with lower hitstun as well. We tested it a bit later and there really wasn't anything that could be done because you couldn't airdodge or jump out until it was too late.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

Diddy is excellent, he does not need ASL, they just need to learn his recovery.

Falcon – terrible priority, his mobility has always been excellent

WOPs– the only issue id have with WOPs has been against ROB.

Hitstun –*will probably need to be lowered.

Can't you just DI WoP's?

atm I think the current hitstun is perfect, but my opinion could change as I continue to test the game.

 

[zxeon]

DIing a WoP is complicated.

 

[CT Chia]

DIing a WoP is complicated.

what?

10chibos

 

[Vex Kasrani]

DIing a WoP is complicated.

Please explain how holding a direction is complicated.

 

[zxeon]

Please explain how holding a direction is complicated.

Sometimes with some characters when you're ****ed you are ****ed.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

Sometimes with some characters when you're ****ed you are ****ed.

That's not a good response. Especially since it makes no sense and holds no logic.

 

[zxeon]

That's not a good response. Especially since it makes no since and holds no logic.

I don't have a real answer for you. Sorry. A least not a good one.

 

[Adapt]

DIing doesn't seem to work as well on DK's bair wall. His Bair is really quick, and he only needs to get in 2 hits to royally screw characters with bad recoveries. The double bair is a true combo, and the bair itself covers a lot of area.

Jiggs WOP is one I don't have a problem with. The hits are smaller, and slower so you can DI it better. You also need to get in 3-5 hits to kill someone.

 

[Dark Sonic]

DIing a WOP is done like this

DI away from the stage so you are out of WOP range at low percentages, and attempt to recover around the edgeguarder. At high percentages, DI the WOP up so that you aren't too low to recover.

It's a little tricky at first, but it's really no different than some of melee's WOPs (Jiggs was a ***** to deal with, but things like Marth's fair WOP and similar things were simple to get around with most characters).