The Brawlplusery - Brawl+ Codeset - Updated 3rd April

[B!squick]

I'm not sure where exactly to ask this, but what changes were made for Bowser? And what's this 1% less damage thing about and is it more meaningful than it sounds? 'Cause 1% less doesn't sound like a heck of alot to me. :/

 

[GHNeko]

Not to sound arrogant, but you don't understand the full spectrum of how Lucario works. I know it might sound crazy, but if you revoke Lucario's % OR stock Aura, he becomes vastly worse. I know this because I have been playing Lucario for so long, and I am a tournament player. Remember, low aura=low damage, easier combos, & low knockback. High aura=high damage, difficult combos, & high knockback. Low enemy damage=Easier combos & low knockback. High enemy damage=high knockback & difficult combos.

Now, let's put someone else in Lucario's perspective. As I said, 100% is average knockback and damage, so you could say every other character is the cast is always at 100% aura. Let's take Mario. He's putting up a good fight against Falcon, but Falcon takes his first stock. Now Mario is down a stock and Falcon is at 140%. Mario F-smashes Falcon and Falcon dies. Pretty typical scenario, right?

Let's look at Lucario in the same scenario: Lucario is putting up a good fight, but he gets kneed into oblivion. Falcon is at 140%, and Lucario comes back at 0% aura. What's good about low aura? Combos! But wait...Falcon is at high %! That means the low aura bonus of good & easy combos is lost. So, what is Lucario left with? Low knockback and low damage. He needs to hit Falcon twice as much as Mario would've to get him equally as far in damage. But Mario just finished it by a quick KO move. Can Lucario do the same? Nope. Lucario's low % KO ability is pathetic. So, Lucario has to get up to 100% until he gets decent KO moves. But wait! There is a slight bonus for Lucario! Yup! He gets a small bonus to damage and knockback when he's a stock behind. So with the stock bonus, it becomes slightly easier to fight the fight and get even with Falcon. Then after they're both down a life, Lucario is back to normal Aura levels and the fight is even again.

My point? When Lucario is behind a stock, it's already much more difficult to get even than it would be with any other character. The bonus just makes it a little easier. If you remove it, then all you'll be doing is giving emphasis on Lucario not falling behind, because if you remove the stock based aura bonus, it gives the non-Lucario character a serious bonus. Heck, you might as well make the games 1-stock if you want to remove his bonus.
Nice sig BTW. Longchu FTW!

That's all fine and dandy but still irrelavent to how the concept works and why it ultimately should be removed.

I'm not going to repeat my self because Ill end up tossing another wall of text, and its really unnecessary this time.

Considering you've never palyed without Aura Stock, I dont think you have the ability to say how much he gets worse. Its factual he gets worse, but without the right information, we have no clue how much worse he gets. But from what I read, there is no way he becomes "significanty" worse. I believe that's an over-exaggeration. Even in the slightest.

When Lucario is behind a stock, he wants to even it out. He should work for it. Not use a clutch. He gains 1.2x to his power when behind a stock, and it stacks. So 1.2x, 2.4x, 3.6x respectively according to B+ rules. But oyu know what, he's affected like that the same way. -1.2x, -2.4x, -3.6x. You want to know why its so hard to kill when you're in the lead? 1. Aura Stock is HOLDING YOU BACK, by THOSE VALUES respectively based on how far ahead you are in stocks. Is that fair? No. Its not. You say Lucario kills for ****? You try killing when you're ahead with that stupid *** Aura Stock ability holding you back. I'm no lucario mainer, but thats some god **** simple math.

And really, I shouldnt even be aruging if he gets worse, because he can simply be buffed in order to replace that god-**** silly *** so-called Ability, which is nothing more than a stealth kick in the nuts to competition by Sakurai.

 

[Almas]

Bowser currently takes 0.9x-0.4 damage from attacks, where x is the normal damage that would be taken.

It sounds little, but it adds up very quickly, especially against multi-hit moves.

 

[Shell]

Is that 0.9x-0.4x? What is the .4? It's not 4 game percents, right?

So a 10% move would deal 8.6%?

 

[Almas]

Yes, it's 0.4 game %s.

1% -> 0.9-0.4 = 0.5%
2% -> 1.8-0.4 = 1.4%
3% -> 2.7-0.4 = 2.3%
4% -> 3.6-0.4 = 3.2%
5% -> 4.5-0.4 = 4.1%
6% -> 5.4-0.4 = 5.0%

etc.

 

[Xaej]

I have a question. When you go to make the next release, are you going to be readjusting a bunch of the current values to compensate for the size modifier code?I really hope not as I still feel like that code is frivolous and unnecessary, and I'd like to keep using the brawlplussery sets without HAVING to use the size modifier code.

Thanks!

 

[Almas]

Certain discoveries about the size modifier code have led us to the decision that it will not be included.

We only have a short list of codes which we want before releasing a "non-beta" version: that is, one which we believe is truly viable for tournament play.

Yes, shell, mainly the former 2.

 

[Shell]

@Almas re. Thick Skin: Gotcha, thanks.

Could you elaborate on the discoveries about the size modifier, please? Is it still the B-move hitbox scaling, slight kill % change, and minor jump modifications?

 

[shanus]

@Almas re. Thick Skin: Gotcha, thanks.

Could you elaborate on the discoveries about the size modifier, please? Is it still the B-move hitbox scaling, slight kill % change, and minor jump modifications?

Mainly B move sizes.

 

[trojanpooh]

what about no ladders? They just get in the way and at least one competitive stage uses them (pictochat). And to make it even better, its a one liner.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

ok i think it's pretty much decided, but i am 100% for giving momentum to all characters. it's absolutely essential; characters w/o disjointed hitboxes are going to have a hard time approaching, and i think the momentum will give them a good chance against camp oritented characters.

 

[Jigglymaster]

Whoever is making the changes and such should seriously consider giving jiggs these buffs.

-More priority in u tilt
-Throws have less knockback
-Rest is Stronger

That will make her balanced.

 

[CountKaiser]

That's all fine and dandy but still irrelavent to how the concept works and why it ultimately should be removed.

I'm not going to repeat my self because Ill end up tossing another wall of text, and its really unnecessary this time.

Considering you've never palyed without Aura Stock, I dont think you have the ability to say how much he gets worse. Its factual he gets worse, but without the right information, we have no clue how much worse he gets. But from what I read, there is no way he becomes "significanty" worse. I believe that's an over-exaggeration. Even in the slightest.

When Lucario is behind a stock, he wants to even it out. He should work for it. Not use a clutch. He gains 1.2x to his power when behind a stock, and it stacks. So 1.2x, 2.4x, 3.6x respectively according to B+ rules. But oyu know what, he's affected like that the same way. -1.2x, -2.4x, -3.6x. You want to know why its so hard to kill when you're in the lead? 1. Aura Stock is HOLDING YOU BACK, by THOSE VALUES respectively based on how far ahead you are in stocks. Is that fair? No. Its not. You say Lucario kills for ****? You try killing when you're ahead with that stupid *** Aura Stock ability holding you back. I'm no lucario mainer, but thats some god **** simple math.

And really, I shouldnt even be aruging if he gets worse, because he can simply be buffed in order to replace that god-**** silly *** so-called Ability, which is nothing more than a stealth kick in the nuts to competition by Sakurai.

The 1.2 bonus is a mulplicative, right? You're treating it as an additive.

1.2*1.2= 1.44
1.44*1.2 = 1.728

There is no way Lucario can get 3 times the power on a move.

I think.
Either way, this stock thing in general is stupid. Maybe if we buffed the KB on his smashes a bit, that could justify taking it away.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

Whoever is making the changes and such should seriously consider giving jiggs these buffs.

-More priority in u tilt
-Throws have less knockback
-Rest is Stronger

That will make her balanced.

hi welcome to brawl+

currently none of those things are possible to modify as was stated many times in this thread

 

[GHNeko]

The 1.2 bonus is a mulplicative, right? You're treating it as an additive.

1.2*1.2= 1.44
1.44*1.2 = 1.728

There is no way Lucario can get 3 times the power on a move.

I think.
Either way, this stock thing in general is stupid. Maybe if we buffed the KB on his smashes a bit, that could justify taking it away.

Now you're thinking with Portals.

Also.

Feb 24 17:18:46 <[BD]GHNeko> Dont quote me
Feb 24 17:18:46 <Yeroc>
Feb 24 17:18:55 <NAMQ> no no
Feb 24 17:19:18 <Raym> Extra Aura Multipliers -At no stock difference the minimum and maximum total aura boost (TAB) is x1 and x2, respectively. -At a one stock disadvantage the minimum and maximum TAB is x1.2 and x2.4, respectively. -At a two stock disadvantage the minimum and maximum TAB is x1.4 and x2.7, respectively. -At a one stock advantage the minimum and maximum TAB is x0.9 and x1.8, respectively. -At a two stock advantage the minimum and maximum TAB is x0.8 and x1.7, resp

I just had to look that up. I remember it wrong. Regardless, my point still stands sans the wrong values.

Justification for replacing that ability would be alot more appropriate, but I can't give any feedback on what to adjust since I dont play Lucario. That's up to you and other B+/vB Lucario mains to figure out.

 

[CyberGlitch]

what about no ladders? They just get in the way and at least one competitive stage uses them (pictochat). And to make it even better, its a one liner.

Check on the Brawl+ code topic for the new no ladders code.

Personally, I find the code to be unimportant for the Brawlplussery codeset.

None of the levels with ladders would fit the Brawl+ ideals without them.

 

[trojanpooh]

First of all, I know where to find the code, I made the thread that houses it. Also, if there is extra room to spare, why not. The way I see it, Brawl+ is meant to make Brawl a better game, regardless of how you play. While its primarily meant for tourneys, its not its only use. No ladders makes the game more competitive even though it doesn't help tourneys, and if it does help make Brawl better, why not add it? I'm not asking for a code to make items explode when thrown to be used, I'm asking for a code that would be accepted into the plusery code set with open arms if it affected legal stages.

 

[shanus]

Right now space is tight. Maybe when gecko 2.0 is out.

 

[trojanpooh]

Thanks, in my opinion, unless space is full 256/256 used there is space for this code, but just because you don't put it in officially quite yet, doesn't mean I can't use it myself. I'd be nice to throw a bone to the less competitive Brawl+ fans, but I see your line of thinking, why put in an unneeded code, take it out to make space, then add it in again latter.

 

[Rikana]

I just watched SMK's match with Ivysaur.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgTTZN2Oel8

Ivysaur has a lot of potential going for him. Especially with his uAir (input mindgame with uAir here) plus it has a lot of knockback.

But the big turn off about Ivysaur is that he is extremely easy to gimp. Unlike ZSS, she has multiple tries on an upB. Is it possible to give Ivysaur an additional upB before he goes invunerable?

 

[GHNeko]

They're talking about giving certain tether characters the ability to do it again or something of the sort. It was a while ago since I last paid attention to it.

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

Are ladders really a problem on Pictochat?

The only stage I've ever been screwed up by a ladder in is Rumble Falls, and the code does not exist to make that stage playable. >_>

 

[GHNeko]

Are ladders really a problem on Pictochat?

The only stage I've ever been screwed up by a ladder in is Rumble Falls, and the code does not exist to make that stage playable. >_>

They're more of an annoyance, but not really a problem.

 

[trojanpooh]

I just stated it because it would raise the chances of the code being used officially. The real problem is 75m and also Rumble falls a bit

 

[Blank Mauser]

I just watched SMK's match with Ivysaur.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgTTZN2Oel8

Ivysaur has a lot of potential going for him. Especially with his uAir (input mindgame with uAir here) plus it has a lot of knockback.

But the big turn off about Ivysaur is that he is extremely easy to gimp. Unlike ZSS, she has multiple tries on an upB. Is it possible to give Ivysaur an additional upB before he goes invunerable?

SMK stole my Uair mindgames!?

Lol but yeah, I've come to love Ivysuar and his great combo ability and overall just versatility for every situation. Hes just not a character I have to stand still with, and his off-stage game is pretty much the only drawback I've found.

ok i think it's pretty much decided, but i am 100% for giving momentum to all characters. it's absolutely essential; characters w/o disjointed hitboxes are going to have a hard time approaching, and i think the momentum will give them a good chance against camp oritented characters.

I couldn't agree more. Without air momentum, its practically stupid to approach with your aerials unless your MK or Marth or something. Otherwise its not a very good idea in general to use aerials to approach. They're mostly just good for zoning and mindgames.

 

[Bowser King]

I'm thinking of maining my secondary, wolf, in brawl+

Is he any good?

- Bowser King

 

[goodoldganon]

Wolf is hella fun to play with. I highly suggest picking him up. He is easy to combo though.

 

[spork_kitty]

I just want to let you guys know that I'm enjoying this hack/expansion. I feel that the guys behind this have the game's balance in mind more than anything, and that makes me happy. In recent months, I've played Brawl less and less due to painfully obvious disparities in characters that I was tired of mitigating.

Count me as a supporter of Brawl+. :D

 

[Eaode]

yea wolf is MAD fun. Dair is a great combo starter and glidng across the stage with Bair/Fair/Uair is 2gud

 

[Jigglymaster]

Is it possible to make it so that when PT switches pokemon he never becomes Ivysaur.

Example. Squirtle -> Charizard -> Squirtle ect ect.

I main both of them in brawl+ and once i switch from squirtle to charizard its hard for me to switch back since I have to go through Ivysaur.

 

[Rikana]

Is it possible to make it so that when PT switches pokemon he never becomes Ivysaur.

Example. Squirtle -> Charizard -> Squirtle ect ect.

I main both of them in brawl+ and once i switch from squirtle to charizard its hard for me to switch back since I have to go through Ivysaur.

It doesn't really work like that I believe.

Even if there is, it won't be a code for standards because what if someone else want only Ivysaur and Squirtle? So basically, if you wan that option of only Squirtle/Charizard, then it must be a custom code only for your game. That means other people playing your game won't be able to switch into Ivysaur.

 

[Blad01]

SERIOUSLY guys, these codes are REALLY dumb :

- No Stale Moves/Keep Fresh Bonus
- Bowser takes 1% less damage from all sources
- Metaknight's Down Smash has more ending lag
- Pokémon Trainer Infinite Stamina and No Swap on Death

And also :
- 1 Frame Buffering
(the window should be a little larger)

 

[Revven]

SERIOUSLY guys, these codes are REALLY dumb :

- No Stale Moves/Keep Fresh Bonus
- Bowser takes 1% less damage from all sources
- Metaknight's Down Smash has more ending lag
- Pokémon Trainer Infinite Stamina and No Swap on Death

Stale moves/Keep fresh bonus - How is this dumb? We're getting rid of a stupid mechanic that forces you to use terrible moves when Sakurai could've actually made those moves USEFUL in the first place, terrible mechanic AND makes matches take forever.

Bowser's Thick Skin - This is different now as stated by Almas (I forget the equation now for how much damage he loses from a move). Nevertheless, this is a buff Bowser needed because of how badly combo'd he can get, it's not dumb.

Meta Knight's Down Smash has more ending lag - It's the FASTEST smash in the game (tying with Mario's who's is also 5 frames) and it KILLS SO EARLY. MK needed some **** nerfing to this move and people ALWAYS whined about it in vBrawl. HOW is this dumb?? Explain yourself.

Pokemon Trainer Infinite Stamina and No Swap on Death - Honestly, this is debatable but, neither codes are dumb, they allow you to main one Pokemon. Something you couldn't do before. How is this dumb? It's not.

 

[Greenpoe]

SERIOUSLY guys, these codes are REALLY dumb :

- No Stale Moves/Keep Fresh Bonus
- Bowser takes 1% less damage from all sources
- Metaknight's Down Smash has more ending lag
- Pokémon Trainer Infinite Stamina and No Swap on Death

And also :
- 1 Frame Buffering
(the window should be a little larger)

- No Stale Moves/Keep Fresh Bonus=Although Brawl's stale-move system adds some flavor to the game, it is made broken by some juggling moves in B+. Since they give less and less knockback, character's moves that combo into themselves (u-tilts and Sheik's f-tilt) become broken...However, the ideal version of Brawl+ will have a stale moves system that will affect damage only.
- Bowser takes 1% less damage from all sources=This is outdated. The new code makes Bowser take 0.9x-0.4 (where x is the base damage of the attack which hits him). Why not just make him even heavier? Because with this code, he takes less damage from multi-hit moves and such, making him uniquely good.
- Metaknight's Down Smash has more ending lag=MK is broken. This helps fix him.
- Pokémon Trainer Infinite Stamina and No Swap on Death=Independent Pokemon=3 characters instead of one.
- 1 Frame Buffering=Other people agree that it should be 2-3 frames instead of 1.

 

[kupo15]

SERIOUSLY guys, these codes are REALLY dumb :

- No Stale Moves/Keep Fresh Bonus
- Bowser takes 1% less damage from all sources
- Metaknight's Down Smash has more ending lag
- Pokémon Trainer Infinite Stamina and No Swap on Death

And also :
- 1 Frame Buffering
(the window should be a little larger)

He has a point with this one. No stales moves is better than no stale moves keep fresh bonus

 

[Blad01]

- No Stale Moves/Keep Fresh Bonus=Although Brawl's stale-move system adds some flavor to the game, it is made broken by some juggling moves in B+. Since they give less and less knockback, character's moves that combo into themselves (u-tilts and Sheik's f-tilt) become broken...However, the ideal version of Brawl+ will have a stale moves system that will affect damage only.

Yeah you're right... But stales moves are really a good addition in Brawl, that makes you think more about the uses of your moves... By example, you can't use the same smash to rack up damage AND to kill. You must choose.

- Bowser takes 1% less damage from all sources=This is outdated. The new code makes Bowser take 0.9x-0.4 (where x is the base damage of the attack which hits him). Why not just make him even heavier? Because with this code, he takes less damage from multi-hit moves and such, making him uniquely good.

What's the point ?
There should be rules in Brawl+, guys... And making "bowser uniquely good" just because there is a bowser fan out there shouldn't be one of them.

- Metaknight's Down Smash has more ending lag=MK is broken. This helps fix him.

MK is not really broken, he's just very good. We have learned to fight MK. And his DSmash is not a broken move at all. Moves that could be called "broken" are his Up B and his Tornado, that's all.

- Pokémon Trainer Infinite Stamina and No Swap on Death=Independent Pokemon=3 characters instead of one.

What's the point again ? You're not developpers guys, there should be limits to Brawl+, once again.

- 1 Frame Buffering=Other people agree that it should be 2-3 frames instead of 1.

Yes, I'm one of them 3 frames window is better.

 

[Greenpoe]

MK is not really broken, he's just very good. We have learned to fight MK. And his DSmash is not a broken move at all. Moves that could be called "broken" are his Up B and his Tornado, that's all.

Uhhh...MK's d-smash is faster than some jabs...JABS! A character's quickest move is suppose to be their jab. MK needs some penalty for this move which he can otherwise spam. It just makes the game more balanced.

 

[Eaode]

Yeah you're right... But stales moves are really a good addition in Brawl, that makes you think more about the uses of your moves... By example, you can't use the same smash to rack up damage AND to kill. You must choose.

Stale moves is a stupid mechanic. Yeah it added a unique aspect to Brawl, but it was supremely annoying and just limits the player

What's the point ?
There should be rules in Brawl+, guys... And making "bowser uniquely good" just because there is a bowser fan out there shouldn't be one of them.

Uh, its part of character balance. Bowser gets ***** wherever there are combos. This is there to make him get less *****

MK is not really broken, he's just very good. We have learned to fight MK. And his DSmash is not a broken move at all. Moves that could be called "broken" are his Up B and his Tornado, that's all.

Uh, MK got even more broken in B+ with hitstun etc. we shouldn't keep one character leagues above others just because we could deal with it.

What's the point again ? You're not developpers guys, there should be limits to Brawl+, once again.

yes, they pretty much are.

Yes, I'm one of them 3 frames window is better.

meh doesn't matter to me. I'm a Melee player so I'm used to little to no buffer, I wouldn't mind 2-3 frames I guess, but I don't think it matter much.

replies in red

 

[Shadic]

Isn't the keep fresh bonus just making moves that you don't use have a bit more damage/knockback? If so, I don't see the problem with it. It's the positive reinforcement of stale moves.

 

[Eaode]

Isn't the keep fresh bonus just making moves that you don't use have a bit more damage/knockback? If so, I don't see the problem with it. It's the positive reinforcement of stale moves.

without being as ridiculous as Brawl's Stale system.