The Brawlplusery - Brawl+ Codeset - Updated 3rd April

[zxeon]

I just noticed that I duck after shines with Fox on one frame of buffer. Do not want.

 

[kupo15]

I've already gotten used to buffer and crouching after SHFF's is no longer problem. Just as 0 buffer has the potential to be fluid, so does having 3-5 buffer. You just have to get used to it. I think too many people are focusing on SHFF'ing, but as a vBrawl player I'm much more about aerial patterns/mindgames that require instant aerials or good buffering otherwise it feels unresponsive.

I personally find buffer to make the game more fluid, and that more people just need to get used to it and realize the options you make so hard with 1 buffer. Buffer is essential to Brawl and created a lot of the tactics used in vBrawl and theres no point in making the game feel so awkward. I feel like I have to mash every time I'm in the air now, and it only gets worst when I'm trying to land into another move. 0 buffer has also messed up my recovery many times.

I completely disagree with about everything you you said. 0 buffer feels more fluid than any amount of buffer. You can't pull off sick combos and be very fast without SHFFLing. It's probably the most important combo technique to combo well. I don't feel that buffering is essentially to brawl in any way. Learn when your animations end and learn to time the moves correctly. Its not that hard and its not awkward at all.

Yes yes yes yes! This is what I want! If I can't do this, my muscle memory is going to instinctively and perhaps on accident at times dash jump to try and SHFFL an aerial like in regular Brawl and I'm going to try and hold back like in Melee with Falcon and I'll just careen off the stage and thus put myself in a terrible situation. I KNEW it was in Melee and I don't know why kupo won't get it added to the code (asking PW to do it that is). It is essential to characters with high momentum like Falcon, can we PLEASE just do this? Holding back so it slows you down as strong as Melee's is so when I dash jump to try and catch you into the air with a Uair, I don't go flying past you.

It. Needs. To. Be. In. It's not a question of "I don't like it." It's necessary, kupo.

Maybe you didn't hear me the first time. Falcon's deceleration is the same as it was in melee. Falco, please stop with the false assumptions with the "I don't like it therefore I don't want it in" crap because that is not the reason. I need to make sure that:

things work improperly to warrent such a change (no one has yet really convinced me)

How to do it. (just saying more air control won't cut it. Look at the results from spunits code based on that description.

So with those things up in the air that does not warrant me wasting PWs time on something that might or might not work or be beneficial when there are other code suggestions that I know for a fact that will work the first time. I have yet to encounter a control issue as falcon and the decceleration is the same as melee so maybe you should do a better job convincing me. I'm not trying to be a hard ***, I'm trying to the see everything from all sides and do whats best for the game which based on everyone's opinion and it is what I have been doing since day one and it has been working well so far.

Pw is in a big project right now which is almost done which is why he can't help right now so my hands are tied. Please tell me how exactly this code would work and what forces are being used

 

[PanzerOceania]

@Kupo's response to Falco400-He means when you're trying to slow down.

It's really noticable with characters who have decent default airspeed in melee (I'll use Marth as an example).

If you do a dashing fair with Marth, and immediately hold backwards (while c-sticking forward), you not only lose all of your forward momentum before your jump ends, but you actually move backwards for a little bit and end up in pretty much the same spot that you started.

Some of the faster dash jumpers (like Falcon, Fox, ect) didn't lose all of their forward momentum, but the did lose a significant portion of it by simply holding backwards. I think that's what Falco400 is looking for. It gives you more control of your dash jump...after doing the dash jump. Holding forward (or no direction) retains normal dash jump properties (normal momentum with a small deceleration rate), while holding back drastically increases the deceleration rate.

This is a good idea.

 

[CountKaiser]

Aren't we using a buffer so that instant aerials are possible?

Besides, wouldn't the buffer need to be dynamically changed in order for teching to be improved?

 

[shanus]

Aren't we using a buffer so that instant aerials are possible?

Besides, wouldn't the buffer need to be dynamically changed in order for teching to be improved?

If actionID=tumble, set buffer=10. Voila.

 

[SketchHurricane]

If actionID=tumble, set buffer=10. Voila.

So then, it's possible to give Bowser only a 10 frame buffer for the infinite claw to be as useful as before? (see Bleakwun's post a page or two back)

 

[shanus]

So then, it's possible to give Bowser only a 10 frame buffer for the infinite claw to be as useful as before? (see Bleakwun's post a page or two back)

Maybe, but I'm pretty sure he can do the infinite koopa claw right now, it just requires more precise timing.

 

[Revven]

Maybe you didn't hear me the first time. Falcon's deceleration is the same as it was in melee.

I'm not talking about PLAIN deceleration. I'm talking about when you hold back on the control stick after dash jumping you don't take as much momentum or hardly go anywhere, it acts as if a regular SHFFL. Do you want me to make a bloody video to show you what I mean? Because it's fairly simple for you to just go turn Melee on, run with Falcon, jump and hold back at the same time and Uair to see the difference between when you leave the control stick in neutral position vs. when holding back.

I know what I'm talking about, you're just not understanding it, if I have to make a video, let me know as I will do so.

 

[Shadic]

I always find it ironic when somebody is arguing about somebody not reading what they say (Kupo) when they didn't understand the post that they're replying to correctly.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

Maybe, but I'm pretty sure he can do the infinite koopa claw right now, it just requires more precise timing.

Yes its still very possible atm, its just much harder to do, but with practice can be done easily.

 

[kupo15]

I'm not talking about PLAIN deceleration. I'm talking about when you hold back on the control stick after dash jumping you don't take as much momentum or hardly go anywhere, it acts as if a regular SHFFL. Do you want me to make a bloody video to show you what I mean? Because it's fairly simple for you to just go turn Melee on, run with Falcon, jump and hold back at the same time and Uair to see the difference between when you leave the control stick in neutral position vs. when holding back.

I know what I'm talking about, you're just not understanding it, if I have to make a video, let me know as I will do so.

No that is what I am talking about. I ran with momentum as melee falcon, held back and the result was the same as brawl+

I always find it ironic when somebody is arguing about somebody not reading what they say (Kupo) when they didn't understand the post that they're replying to correctly.

Your wrong

 

[Finns7]

Saying 0 and 1 buffer feel more fluid than 10 is based on you. I use 10 and I feel its smoother. You have been playing on 1 and 0 so much that it feels natural, but to me, and others it doesnt feel that good. I also doubt it will feel good to some VBlers who will SD "cuz there upb didnt come out and it was cus of teh hitstun" or something stupid like that. When you hear about VB not being a good competitive game its not the buffer that people mention. Why make people relearn there timings of things that were once natural. Id see if we where making a completely new game, but it is still brawl. Can someone who is used to 1 or 0 buffer make a vid and do ganons thunderstomp consistently or shieks dac with it.

 

[kupo15]

Saying 0 and 1 buffer feel more fluid than 10 is based on you. I use 10 and I feel its smoother. You have been playing on 1 and 0 so much that it feels natural, but to me, and others it doesnt feel that good. I also doubt it will feel good to some VBlers who will SD "cuz there upb didnt come out and it was cus of teh hitstun" or something stupid like that. When you hear about VB not being a good competitive game its not the buffer that people mention. Why make people relearn there timings of things that were once natural. Id see if we where making a completely new game, but it is still brawl. Can someone who is used to 1 or 0 buffer make a vid and do ganons thunderstomp consistently or shieks dac with it.

You can kinda get away with 10 frame buffer in vb because there is less to do. Brawl+ is more technical and there is a lot of things that require precise timing to be really good at which is why 10 frame buffer doesn't work. There were still some mistakes in vb with buffer and there will no doubt be more mistakes in B+

 

[PanzerOceania]

I don't see anything wrong with the 0 buffer, no matter how you slice it we are gonna need to relearn things from melee, or regular brawl, that's just the nature of the beast.

 

[Blank Mauser]

I completely disagree with about everything you you said. 0 buffer feels more fluid than any amount of buffer. You can't pull off sick combos and be very fast without SHFFLing. It's probably the most important combo technique to combo well. I don't feel that buffering is essentially to brawl in any way. Learn when your animations end and learn to time the moves correctly. Its not that hard and its not awkward at all.

You can combo/shff with buffer on too, it feels very seamless and comfortable and theres no point in taking that away. I still do sick combos and I feel like I hit the ground and leave much faster. It seems people just haven't gotten used to Brawl's buffer. SHFF'ing without crouching is not hard, and low buffer frames just makes things harder to do for no reason.

SHFF'ing is important but maybe you don't do a lot of the same techniques I do in Brawl, so you don't know how hard it is to adjust just because people can't shff right. Its not about learning when the animation ends, Brawl's animations are just deceiving. Of course when all you do is land with the moves you won't notice it as much, but what about other playstyles?

I don't see a good reason to keep buffer mod on at all. It just makes things unresponsive and awkward, and I felt that way about it in Melee too. Except in Melee I didn't attempt to do most the things I do in Brawl, and I learned to take advantage of buffer now. Why take it away? How are frame perfect moves not fluid?

Also its not precise timing, its just different timing.

 

[kupo15]

. It seems people just haven't gotten used to Brawl's buffer. SHFF'ing without crouching is not hard, and low buffer frames just makes things harder to do for no reason.

Its not something you an get used to when things become so technical.

SHFF'ing is important but maybe you don't do a lot of the same techniques I do in Brawl, so you don't know how hard it is to adjust just because people can't shff right. Its not about learning when the animation ends, Brawl's animations are just deceiving. Of course when all you do is land with the moves you won't notice it as much, but what about other playstyles?

I can still wingdash, bowser claw, QAC easily

I don't see a good reason to keep buffer mod on at all. It just makes things unresponsive and awkward, and I felt that way about it in Melee too. Except in Melee I didn't attempt to do most the things I do in Brawl, and I learned to take advantage of buffer now. Why take it away? How are frame perfect moves not fluid?

Also its not precise timing, its just different timing.

When you control when an action occurs, it is more precise then when the game does. Cape made a good point. The human mind changes really quickly and 10 frame buffer is too slow to react to that. If you go for something then change your mind, you have no choice with 10 frame buffer, but with one frame you do.

 

[Dark Sonic]

^^Because 10 frames is a ridiculously long window and causes things like nair SD's when you're trying to shieldgrab. It also lets you get away with not actually knowing how long your move is, but rather just guessing a general time frame (do you realize just how ridiculously long 1/6th of a second is?).

 

[PanzerOceania]

0 or 1 buffer just makes sense, if you can have real time happening why would you not?

 

[Blank Mauser]

So then whats wrong with 3 or 5? Also Kupo none of those are techniques I'm talking about. I'm talking about simple things like Full jump Bair Uairs or Bair double jump Bair.

And the game does not control you, you are still in control you just have to be mindful of what you mash. There is nothing wrong with buffer. Having to learn when the animation ends isn't a good excuse when most the times you will just end up mashing to get the most height when buffer would still let you gain more height with less effort anyways.

Edit: Buffer keeps real time it just helps you do frame perfect moves. You guys blow 0-1 frame buffer out of proportion, it just feels unresponsive.

 

[Finns7]

Why dont we use 5 then? also 0 is not right for brawl (Ganon, shiek).

How many pro players die from nair-acide? I can see wanting a smaller buffer for the timing thing though but 1 from 10 is _____________________quite a change.

 

[Ulevo]

So then whats wrong with 3 or 5? Also Kupo none of those are techniques I'm talking about. I'm talking about simple things like Full jump Bair Uairs or Bair double jump Bair.

And the game does not control you, you are still in control you just have to be mindful of what you mash. There is nothing wrong with buffer. Having to learn when the animation ends isn't a good excuse when most the times you will just end up mashing to get the most height when buffer would still let you gain more height with less effort anyways.

Edit: Buffer keeps real time it just helps you do frame perfect moves. You guys blow 0-1 frame buffer out of proportion, it just feels unresponsive.

I agree. I would say 3 sounds about right. The controls feel unresponsive as they are. A player should have to fight his opponent, not the character he's using.

 

[kupo15]

So then whats wrong with 3 or 5? Also Kupo none of those are techniques I'm talking about. I'm talking about simple things like Full jump Bair Uairs or Bair double jump Bair.
.

I can do those just fine at 1 buffer.

 

[goodoldganon]

I think everyone agrees that 10 is too much, but I thought we couldn't perfect a buffer of like 3-5. Either way the buffers are a personal preference. As Finnz said, at 0-1 buffer it becomes next to impossible to play a few people (next to impossible means a much bigger pain to me.) I haven't had any problems stringing together my combos on 10 buffer, it's just something I got used to and adjusted to.

I really feel that buffering and momentum are truly the biggest changes for a new player to adjust to when they start and I just don't feel buffering adds anything except taking away those accidental N-airs deaths, and really that's only a major problem for a few select characters.

Either way, I don't care I play with a 10 buffer. If a 5 buffer comes out and works well then I'll adopt it. 0-1 buffer makes the game to much of a chore to play in my eyes.

 

[zxeon]

I play with the buffer set to one and that still screws with things. It takes time to get used to. I never miss a Dsmash off a landing anymore.

 

[PanzerOceania]

what I am hearing is a lot of people just saying it is a hard adjustment, which is legitimate, but that also means you can't say it's harder to do things until you have played with 0 buffer long enough to get used to it to make a fair judgment.

 

[Finns7]

what I am hearing is a lot of people just saying it is a hard adjustment, which is legitimate, but that also means you can't say it's harder to do things until you have played with 0 buffer long enough to get used to it to make a fair judgment.

Make a youtube vid of ganon doing a thunderstomp 7 times in a row at 0 (7 times to show its possible to do it consitently) and Do shieks Sliding Dac upsmash. Hell do shieks on 1 consistently.

 

[kupo15]

Make a youtube vid of ganon doing a thunderstomp 7 times in a row at 0 (7 times to show its possible to do it consitently) and Do shieks Sliding Dac upsmash. Hell do shieks on 1 consistently.

DACUS is really easy to do on 1 buffer. I thought it would be harder but its really not.

 

[Adetque]

Honestly, just learn to not shield grab near the ledge. No more nair deaths.

 

[kupo15]

Honestly, just learn to not shield grab near the ledge. No more nair deaths.

You mean learn to deal with less options when we can add more?

 

[PanzerOceania]

Honestly, just learn to not shield grab near the ledge. No more nair deaths.

it's not like you get to choose when it's convenient to do something, you just have to act, there is no need to limit your strategies.

 

[leafgreen386]

Honestly, just learn to not shield grab strong attacks that you never should be shieldgrabbing in the first place near the ledge. No more nair deaths.

Fix'd.

I support a 3-5 frame buffer, because I do think 10 is too much, but I don't see why we need to go as low as 1 (and zero is just plain out of the question due to instant aerials). Although on this same topic, why do people always say "3 or 5?" Why not ever "3 to 5?" What is it about the human mind that dislikes the number "4" so much? lol

 

[Finns7]

I stopped dying from that **** though after a month of playing. Ask a pro Ike, seriously how often do they die from that ****?

O and leaf I just had this notion evens didnt work which is wrong but idk I will try to stop discriminating.

 

[kupo15]

Fix'd.

I support a 3-5 frame buffer, because I do think 10 is too much, but I don't see why we need to go as low as 1 (and zero is just plain out of the question due to instant aerials). Although on this same topic, why do people always say "3 or 5?" Why not ever "3 to 5?" What is it about the human mind that dislikes the number "4" so much? lol

Well its obvious that 4 is an unlucky number in korea so we are trying to avoid an international crisis

What glitches were in 3ish again?

 

[Finns7]

nothing i think it has more to do with the diff buffer codes, like the 1 line from a ways back wasnt consistent? and the original from AAAAAAWWWWAAAYS back was glitchy except on 0 or 1.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Honestly, just learn to not shield grab near the ledge. No more nair deaths.

Honestly, just learn your character's lag. No more unresponsiveness (I've never felt this was a problem).

About the whole nair thing...that was just an example of how buffering can be harmful. I could've also used turning around when land or something.

 

[Blank Mauser]

I was thinking about saying 3-5 but held back due to Kupo's reason.

Also I have gotten used to both 10 buffer and 1 buffer and I think 10 buffer is better. I feel faster, and more comfortable with it. Even when I have gotten used to 1 buffer and don't mess up as much it still feels more awkward then it should be. Buffer doesn't limit your options either it just means you have to be careful. Its the same with no buffer except no buffer makes options hard to do without much good reason.

 

[kupo15]

give this a try.

0485B784 38600002

2 buffer

 

[SketchHurricane]

Yes its still very possible atm, its just much harder to do, but with practice can be done easily.

It's not about the difficulty, it's about the utility. Bleakwun already stated that the sideB comes out on frame 8, meaning that any buffer below 8 will make it impossible to grab during the infinite. On 10 frames, you could infinite claw and mix up between actually grabbing near the ground, or doing an aerial (the lag of which prevents a grab near the ground). Anything below 8 takes away the grab option completely, reducing the infinite merely to a lagless jump.

The bases of giving Bowser 8+ frame buffer is to preserve the utility of the infinite claw. That's what Bleak was trying to say.

As for buffer on the whole, I'm glad people are finally arguing for 3+. I was crying for 3-5 when the code first came out, but I had no backup back then . Even back then, when the 1 line buffer came out, I repeatedly stated that I had been playing with 3 frames with no problems, but no one seemed to listen.

 

[kupo15]

any glitches in the code I posted? It feels pretty good to me

 

[Dark Sonic]

It's not about the difficulty, it's about the utility. Bleakwun already stated that the sideB comes out on frame 8, meaning that any buffer below 8 will make it impossible to grab during the infinite. On 10 frames, you could infinite claw and mix up between actually grabbing near the ground, or doing an aerial (the lag of which prevents a grab near the ground). Anything below 8 takes away the grab option completely, reducing the infinite merely to a lagless jump.

The bases of giving Bowser 8+ frame buffer is to preserve the utility of the infinite claw. That's what Bleak was trying to say.

As for buffer on the whole, I'm glad people are finally arguing for 3+. I was crying for 3-5 when the code first came out, but I had no backup back then .

Buffering has absolutely no ties to the functions of moves. Buffering only carries over inputs made while you're unable to actually do them. Thus if it is possible to do with buffer, it is also possible to do without buffer, since buffering only acts as if you happened to put that input on the required frame.

So the only thing that changes when you remove buffering is the window for which you can do things. If it had a 10 frame window as a result of buffering (meaning that it actually only had a 1 frame window, but buffering carried your input over to that one frame), then it now has a 1 frame window (with zero buffer). So yes you can still grab with the infinite claw, you'd just have to learn where the timing is (and how long after the grab you still have to jump). And I highly doubt that Bowser's infinite jump has a 1 frame window even after grabbing. I'm not saying that we should have a one frame or zero frame buffer. I'm just saying that your statement about Bowser needing an 8 frame buffer minimum is simply not true.

BTW, spinshotting only has a 1 frame window...but it's ridiculously easy to do lol. So the length of the window itself isn't that important, but rather how recognizable that window is. Bowser freakin flashes. Can't you just adjust your timing based on that?