DerpDaBerp
Smash Champion
It obviously wouldn't stop people from playing MK in friendlies
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Should Metaknight Be Banned? The Poll (LISTEN TO THE SBR PODCAST!)
- Thread starter GofG
- Start date
- Status
Falconv1.0
Smash Master
Pieman, did you know there is an edit button on your post?
Because he's the most common character to face, and it's sucky to have a 60:40 against you if you don't select 3 members of the cast (Snake, Olimar, Yoshi) versus the most popular opponent.
Falconv1.0
Smash Master
That's great, but that's not much of a reason to celebrate. Same people will do good, same people will suck ***. The top characters that have 60/40 match ups with Mk or arguably even dont really balance each other out without MK.
Say you use DDD. Do your chances of winning without MK increase? I'd say not really. :/
paulleh
Smash Apprentice
wow the votes are pretty close... they're only about 200 away from eachother.
NintenJoe
Smash Ace
lol, one gone for Link too. Best Gimper (Meta Knight)+ Worst Recovery(Link) = Link fail. Although I am impartial when it comes to the MK ban, it would sure help me at tournaments if he was banned. :/I'd sure celebrate though, lol. no MK, that's one 80-20 match up gone for sonic.PARTY AT MY PLACE. lol.
But it'll be a whole lot more enjoyable to lose.
And actually if more Snakes show up, yes they will -- DDD has a 55:45 vs. Snake.
Falconv1.0
Smash Master
Bull****. If MK is banned, you will not do any better, I ****ing guarantee it. If MK was one of very few characters that did well at gimping well, your statement would be a lil more valid.
Good character+Worst recovery=Link fail.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Fail KM approaches Link more easily than others too
I'm pretty sure MK's advantage over Wolf is 70/30.
Falconv1.0
Smash Master
I said unless your character is ****. Wolf is not exactly high up there, and without MK, he still wont be.
Jesus Christ how many times do I have to restate such obvious ****.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
A character being bad does NOT automatically mean that the character will have a bad matchup.
sooo. yeah
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
yoshi, case in point
and as for the inverse....
i hear ROB/MK is 70-30 MK
isnt ROB top tier?
Using a script, I broke down the results by character main, as chosen in your smashboards profile. I made Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard all count toward Pokemon Trainer. Some melee-exclusive characters appear because they are options in the profile selector. Those people with no main characters are listed as "None" below.
This table gives you the ratio of each character main that voted to ban Meta Knight, sorted from most supportive of the ban to most opposed:
This table gives you the ratio of each character main that voted to ban Meta Knight, sorted from most supportive of the ban to most opposed:
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Luigi: (85%, 23/27)
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Captain Falcon: (81%, 29/36)
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Ganondorf: (79%, 19/24)
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Donkey Kong: (73%, 22/30)
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Peach: (73%, 27/37)
- Roy: (72%, 13/18)
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Wario: (71%, 20/28)
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Pit: (68%, 21/31)
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Lucas: (67%, 24/36)
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Samus: (67%, 20/30)
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Pikmin & Olimar: (64%, 27/42)
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Sonic: (63%, 32/51)
- Young Link: (63%, 5/8)
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Link: (63%, 30/48)
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Mr. Game & Watch: (62%, 34/55)
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Zero Suit Samus: (62%, 16/26)
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R.O.B.: (61%, 23/38)
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Lucario: (59%, 36/61)
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Ice Climbers: (57%, 12/21)
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Bowser: (57%, 50/88)
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Marth: (56%, 62/111)
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Diddy Kong: (55%, 17/31)
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Falco: (54%, 39/72)
- Dr. Mario: (54%, 7/13)
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Snake: (53%, 31/58)
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Yoshi: (53%, 17/32)
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Zelda: (53%, 10/19)
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Fox: (52%, 22/42)
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Ike: (52%, 24/46)
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Ness: (52%, 16/31)
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Mario: (51%, 18/35)
- Random: (51%, 38/75)
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Wolf: (50%, 16/32)
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Pokemon Trainer: (50%, 13/26)
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Toon Link: (50%, 22/44)
- Pichu: (50%, 2/4)
- None: (50%, 229/461)
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King Dedede: (49%, 21/43)
- Mewtwo: (47%, 7/15)
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Jigglypuff: (46%, 12/26)
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Sheik: (43%, 15/35)
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Pikachu: (38%, 14/37)
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Kirby: (34%, 20/58)
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Meta Knight: (14%, 7/50)
hotgarbage
Smash Lord
ColinJF is a sexy man
Mr. Escalator
G&W Guru
Very sexy indeed.
XxBlackxX
Smash Ace
wow...nice work, so it seems to me like tiers have nothing to do with support/against the ban, but i suppose matchups do a little. it is interesting that snake and diddy are more towards the middle of the characters, and they have maybe one of the best matchups (as best as it gets at the moment)Using a script, I broke down the results by character main, as chosen in your smashboards profile. I made Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard all count toward Pokemon Trainer. Some melee-exclusive characters appear because they are options in the profile selector. Those people with no main characters are listed as "None" below.
This table gives you the ratio of each character main that voted to ban Meta Knight, sorted from most supportive of the ban to most opposed:
- Roy: (72%, 13/18)
- Young Link: (63%, 5/8)
- Dr. Mario: (54%, 7/13)
- Random: (51%, 38/75)
- Pichu: (50%, 2/4)
- None: (50%, 229/461)
- Mewtwo: (47%, 7/15)
Naucitos
Smash Journeyman
i thought his worst were yoshi dk and olimar?
SamuraiPanda
Smash Hero
- Joined
- May 22, 2006
- Messages
- 6,924
As an FYI, here is the temporary download link to download the official SBR podcast where we debated on whether or not MK is ban-worthy: http://smyn.smashnexus.net/download.php?id=45
I also added it to the first post. I'll be remaking the poll whenever we get the permanent download link up. I'm interested to see what people will think about this issue after listening to it. Show it to all of your friends too, so we can get people as educated as possible before voting on it again.
I also added it to the first post. I'll be remaking the poll whenever we get the permanent download link up. I'm interested to see what people will think about this issue after listening to it. Show it to all of your friends too, so we can get people as educated as possible before voting on it again.
Deoxys
Smash Lord
No, ZSS, Snake, and probably Diddy are all better than DK against MK.
Naucitos
Smash Journeyman
There are 5 people then, that are contested to be neutral, i wonder why people are still complaining XD
I'm pretty sure ZSS has not been proven nearly satisfactorily.
Mr.Fakeman
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2008
- Messages
- 382
Personally I don't want MK to be banned, I need MK so I can beat him with Captain Falcon. This will give Captain Falcon some reputation points in tourneys when he wins.
dawgbowl
Smash Ace
I listened to a little bit of it, clearly though the person who went first for the non-ban side was prepared, confident, and spoke clearly.
Debates aren't just about content, it's about how the info is presented and it didn't seem like the Pro-Ban side (the side I choose) did as good of a job as they should have and seemed to stutter and stop.
I'm not insulting you guys, I'm just saying this can raise bias when it comes time to vote again. The better speaker will always, ALWAYS win a debate unless the information is one-sided.
That's why I would have preferred short write-up paragraphs from each side that would be well thought out.
Just saying, I wouldn't use this as a way to recast votes because speech plays a huge role.
Don't worry, here at Smash forums, we don't care if you say ain't all the time or you say Melee 5 different ways, or you're constantly going ummm...., we just care about MK.
Well, obviously nobody did those things, but the point it, we don't get distracted by minor speech stuff, because anything they say, no matter how poorly it is spoken, is going to be regurgitated over and over by hundreds of members here, many of which can then make it sound good.
Snakeee says that ZSS is even in this matchup but I think thats just a combination of wishful thinking and him being really good. From my experience as a ZSS main the matchup is very winnable. ZSS can deal with a lot of MK's options but MK still has a 6-4 on this.
infomon
Smash Scientist
The non-ban side started out much more prepared and confident, but as the debate progress their foothold seems to have weakened; too much reliance on pre-written speech? I haven't finished listening yet, tough... but IMO it's just their arguments that matter; this isn't just an arbitrary debate for the sake of debate, I care about wheter MK should be banned or not, which I'd like to judge based on reality, not charisma.
Justblaze647
Smash Lord
Before I listened to the podcast... I was pro-ban...
After I listened to the podcast... I was pro-ban...
OS you're my hero!
After I listened to the podcast... I was pro-ban...
OS you're my hero!
Falconv1.0
Smash Master
I stopped giving a flying **** what OS thought when he said as MK he survived Snake's U Tilt at 180%.
I have some respect for OS, but these people just riding his nuts everywhere is ****ing ********.
I have some respect for OS, but these people just riding his nuts everywhere is ****ing ********.
The Real Inferno
Smash Hero
I've personally seen Metas survive Snake Utilts on FD at 130 though which is a full 50% more than that legendary 80% kills (which admittedly is supposed to be with no DI. With proper DI it's not unlikely to survive many things at -far- greater percentages). Also after listening to the whole podcast, I was originally going to give a full review of each point and judge the competitors based on their presentation, reaction to contrary data, supporting evidence for their facts and any other factors. However, I don't really have the time to do it now as I was expecting the download much earlier in the week. That said, here's a quick overview I have.
Overswarm- Clearly the most well-prepared for this debate, which is to be expected, he's been having it for months. Spoke clearly, supported his evidence firmly, and didn't let counter arguments get him flustered.
EdreesesPieces- Did okay, but was clearly far less prepared than Overswarm and so took a back seat for most of the time when he was still there. Didn't argue terribly, but tended to wander off track.
AlphaZealot- Well-prepared, though didn't seem ready to take on all angles of counter argument, leaving him looking a little weaker. Had extreme case of wandering off track.
UnbreonMow- Seemed horrifically unprepared for this. This is probably due to the fact he wasn't originally even supposed to be in it and ended up taking the spot of M2K. (This is probably a good thing as I've heard M2K's version of "debate"). Did very well despite this and stayed on topic.
Overall- The Proban side went into this with alot of public support and confidence. Anti-ban side had to gain ground obviously. The beginning of the debate showed a clear advantage as I agree with Samurai Panda on this. The second topic they picked up was a cluster**** of pointlessness though as neither side seemed have any strong evidence. Deeper into the fray, anti-ban came back strong, but pro-ban didn't back down to counter evidence easily. I'd say both sides argued very well but I cannot blame Panda for not picking a side in the end as neither side truelly solidified their case to the point where any nuetral should jump ship.
Overswarm- Clearly the most well-prepared for this debate, which is to be expected, he's been having it for months. Spoke clearly, supported his evidence firmly, and didn't let counter arguments get him flustered.
EdreesesPieces- Did okay, but was clearly far less prepared than Overswarm and so took a back seat for most of the time when he was still there. Didn't argue terribly, but tended to wander off track.
AlphaZealot- Well-prepared, though didn't seem ready to take on all angles of counter argument, leaving him looking a little weaker. Had extreme case of wandering off track.
UnbreonMow- Seemed horrifically unprepared for this. This is probably due to the fact he wasn't originally even supposed to be in it and ended up taking the spot of M2K. (This is probably a good thing as I've heard M2K's version of "debate"). Did very well despite this and stayed on topic.
Overall- The Proban side went into this with alot of public support and confidence. Anti-ban side had to gain ground obviously. The beginning of the debate showed a clear advantage as I agree with Samurai Panda on this. The second topic they picked up was a cluster**** of pointlessness though as neither side seemed have any strong evidence. Deeper into the fray, anti-ban came back strong, but pro-ban didn't back down to counter evidence easily. I'd say both sides argued very well but I cannot blame Panda for not picking a side in the end as neither side truelly solidified their case to the point where any nuetral should jump ship.
Overswarm
is laughing at you
- Joined
- May 4, 2005
- Messages
- 21,181
I never said I survived Snake's u-tilt at 180%.
Also, I believe the person I was playing was Noodles.
Banee
Smash Cadet
I think, for me, the anti-ban side seemed to fall apart whenever Mow asked OS a question, to which he gave a very good answer to and Mow was like "Uh well I expected you to say this" and then started to respond as if OS had said what he wanted and never addressed OS' actual response.
I also agree with Panda, in the podcast, when OS made the analogy of metaknight to a disease and you dont wait until your patient dies from the disease to do anything about it (or something along those lines).
It seemed to me, alot of the anti-ban side was future speculation that we may find an answer to these problems that are occuring now. I was on the fence, maybe even favoring the anti-ban side a bit, before I heard the podcast but I can say after the podcast I am swaying toward the pro-ban side of things.
As nice as the debate was, though, I still dont feel strongly about either side. I think the issue definently deserves more debate.
If you guys do do another debate on the podcast please make sure whenever someone has their mic open that they dont have a bunch of background noise. Certain parts of the podcast were very hard to listen to due to whoever that was that had like 3 people in the background talking.
Nothing new, I've seen AZ do that a lot. It's kind of annoying when seeing him argue things like that. Guess it should have been expected to show in this.
So here at HOBO 12 metaknight was banned,
the initial results were
1: fliphop (diddy)
2: Lee (lucario/snake)
3: Roy (marth)
4: Ultimate Razor (snake)
5: Sethlon (falco)
5: DMG (Wario)
7: Hylian (G+W)
7: ???
The results aren't up yet but as i recall they were somewhere along the lines of this (I can't remember the last person to get top 8)
Now the anti ban community may say, Lee still placed top 2 without metaknight, therefore he is not a broken character. That is true but the point is, good players are going to win and place well with or without metaknight. more than anything all the ban will do is help vent out all the bad players who win with metaknight only because they use metaknight.
i g2g my lunchbreak is done, but its just some food for thought
the initial results were
1: fliphop (diddy)
2: Lee (lucario/snake)
3: Roy (marth)
4: Ultimate Razor (snake)
5: Sethlon (falco)
5: DMG (Wario)
7: Hylian (G+W)
7: ???
The results aren't up yet but as i recall they were somewhere along the lines of this (I can't remember the last person to get top 8)
Now the anti ban community may say, Lee still placed top 2 without metaknight, therefore he is not a broken character. That is true but the point is, good players are going to win and place well with or without metaknight. more than anything all the ban will do is help vent out all the bad players who win with metaknight only because they use metaknight.
i g2g my lunchbreak is done, but its just some food for thought
Interesting, with the exception of Diddy, all those guys are top tier...
well, at least its the ENTIRE top tier.
Actually, that was Mow.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
lol mod double post...
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